Bad experience with "back person"/therapist?

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Calcyle

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Just musing to myself... (as you do at 3.24am when you can't sleep...)

Who/what to use to treat your horse can be a hotly debated topic, as it should be. We all want the best we can get.

If you've had a bad or disappointing experience with a therapist, why? Did the treatment not work? Were they rude? Didn't do a proper assessment? Too short a session? Didn't explain what was happening?

I'm not looking for any kind of identifying factors (please don't mention any) just why the experience/outcome wasn't what you wanted or anticipated?

PM if you prefer!
 
I put a similar post the other day - I seem to come across horses on an almost daily basis at the moment that have been treated and "sorted" (invariably they have been "Out" :rolleyes: )

It irritates the hell out of me, because their owners are relying on these people to be experienced and knowledgable. Instead they come along, look (briefly) at these horses (some seem to trot up, some don't) proceed to treat and tell the owners it's all good. Sometimes they do treat the problem (eg let off tight muscle areas/ realign skeletal structures) but they don't ever get to the route of it (eg the horse keeps tightening up in that area because of how it moves (I would like to see them address that, and work with exercises to change the horses movement pattern) or the horse is tight at the back of the saddle because the rider is too unbalanced for the horse / the saddle doesn't fit)(yes, I do expect them to address that, work with the instructor and possibly suggest a different instructor!)
To me, ignoring these "primary causes" is no different to me, as an instructor, ignoring the fact a horse that can't jump because its tack doesn't fit / it's lame / or its back is sore - a team of professionals is required (esp with less experienced owners) to keep horses "on the road".

Sometimes, they leave exercises (normally the same ones for a range of horses with different problems, which makes me ink they don't really know!) but they never explain to owners what the exercises are aiming to improve (ie what the owners should be looking for) or what the warning signs are.
And!! They never discuss why the issue has come about. I think this is because they don't actually know. I appreciate the physio I am lucky enough to use has an exceptional eye and a great deal of experience.
By contrast most of the others are just playing at it - I suppose that's a bit like Carl Hester v's a "normal" professional. I suppose that's not wrong......
My problem is it's the horses (& owners) that are paying for these supposed "professionals" lack of knowledge and experience.
 
Norfolk Pie said:
I put a similar post the other day - I seem to come across horses on an almost daily basis at the moment that have been treated and "sorted" (invariably they have been "Out" :rolleyes: )

It irritates the hell out of me, because their owners are relying on these people to be experienced and knowledgable. Instead they come along, look (briefly) at these horses (some seem to trot up, some don't) proceed to treat and tell the owners it's all good. Sometimes they do treat the problem (eg let off tight muscle areas/ realign skeletal structures) but they don't ever get to the route of it (eg the horse keeps tightening up in that area because of how it moves (I would like to see them address that, and work with exercises to change the horses movement pattern) or the horse is tight at the back of the saddle because the rider is too unbalanced for the horse / the saddle doesn't fit)(yes, I do expect them to address that, work with the instructor and possibly suggest a different instructor!)
To me, ignoring these "primary causes" is no different to me, as an instructor, ignoring the fact a horse that can't jump because its tack doesn't fit / it's lame / or its back is sore - a team of professionals is required (esp with less experienced owners) to keep horses "on the road".

Sometimes, they leave exercises (normally the same ones for a range of horses with different problems, which makes me ink they don't really know!) but they never explain to owners what the exercises are aiming to improve (ie what the owners should be looking for) or what the warning signs are.
And!! They never discuss why the issue has come about. I think this is because they don't actually know. I appreciate the physio I am lucky enough to use has an exceptional eye and a great deal of experience.
By contrast most of the others are just playing at it - I suppose that's a bit like Carl Hester v's a "normal" professional. I suppose that's not wrong......
My problem is it's the horses (& owners) that are paying for these supposed "professionals" lack of knowledge and experience.
Click to expand...

Very good. A good physio or whatever you choose to use should be able to tell you what is wrong, possible reasons why (there could be many to choose from!) and treatment/exercises to correct the problem.

In my opinion it is best to use someone who is a member or registered with an organisation, such as ACPAT for example, you then have someone to complain to if you are not happy with how the professional conducted themselves or the work they did etc.
 
Like in most professions there are good and bad therapists, my main issue with people using them is that they seem to call in the "back person" with no real idea of why or what to expect. The "back person" may be good at their job but they are not able to diagnose many conditions and in many cases seem reluctant to refer any issues that do not respond to treatment back to the vet, many do not even ask vets permission to treat, if posts on here are anything to go by.
The term back person covers a lot of therapists and is one that a properly qualified professional does not like, they do not just treat backs, they should assess and deal with the whole horse.

I have a very good and thorough physio I use for my horses and have no bad experiences since using her but have heard some stories of incorrect treatment which has caused major problems these are often due to the therapist continuing to treat an injured horse which should have been referred to the vet.
 
I have some concern about the back person who's treated my share cob. He's got a stifle problem and had a really bad episode in January. He had some manoeuvres done but having watched the treatment I could not see how it would have done much to help him. Plus she came up with a very alarming prognosis..field ornament future and dangerious to ride which really upset owner and I.
Some of what Norfolk pie said has rung a chord with me. This horse frequently bucked his owner off or would tank off with her yet when I rode him he would not ever do this. The difference was in our balance and I had felt that this was in some way relevant to his behaviour.
We've now concentrated on getting him fit and I give him regular massages and stretches and he's doing really well. Friends riding has also improved recently and im sure thus has helped him too.
I've become somewhat cynical about her ability as most visits seem to be an opportunity to sell a saddle or adjust his current one.
 
For me your vet should be first port of call if youre worried somethings not right.
Physios, bodyworkers are good as part of the treatment and sometimes aid in the diagnostics, but the vet should always be involved.
I trust my EBW with my horses she has been great at telling me the what,why,when for treatment given. Advised me on literature that further explains things, and has had me put hands on to feel differences and shown me how to recognise if things need her more expert hand.
If however i thought my horse had pulled something or tweaked something as much as i respect her, my vet would be the person id call, as its his job to diagnose any injury or condition, not hers, he is in the position to administer muscle relaxant drugs if required and decide whether further diagnostics are needed ....scans etc.
 
I have to say I really like my osteopath (who certified in humans before specialising in horses), he also is a certified shiatsu practitioner.

I always get "homework" after he has been to help stabilise and improve any work he has done, and he always takes the time to explain what he is doing, and where the blocks are.

I have to say that vets here do use "alternative" therapy quite a lot. In fact, when I have my PPE done for Tartine, the examinine vet said "she is stiffer to one side, I'd get an osteo to look at her"
 
Agree with Marydoll - in fact, I believe in theory it is illegal for them to treat an animal except under veterinary supervision. Most vets are happy to "supervise" from a distance (i.e. not be present) those therapists they know and trust - we should really all be asking for a recommendation from a vet before we let them loose on our horses. I actually don't, because I have known my back lady from before she trained and during the training, and I know she is 100% conscientious and trustworthy. But my vet recommends a different one so I keep an open mind.
 
Really interesting and reasoned responses - thanks :)

Norfolk Pie, it was partially yours that made me post this. I started writing down my thoughts on the subject - quite similar to yours, I may get some people to read it to see if it is worth posting.

I'd expect a decent therapist to 'walk you through' everything that they were doing and why. Personally I always try to get owners to put hands on and feel what I can feel to some extent, and if that's not possible then at the very least least feel the temperature difference of an area that has been treated to a part that hasn't. Or to show where spasm is no longer elicited, or where a stretch is easier than before, etc.

People often have slightly unrealistic expectations I think, and rightly as someone else said, if something is 'wrong' rather than 'slighty off' (very interesting thread the other day re lameness vs unlevelness), you'd be better off with the vet first (though obviously vet should be consulted in some way, regardless). Legally, if you're not a vet, you can't diagnose, so it can be a difficult line for a therapist to tread.
I think a good therapist also shouldn't be afraid to realise their own limitations- sometimes the vet/farrier/saddler/other therapist might be able to do something they can't.

Anyone else have things to share?
 
Like the back person who treated the horse, the yard owner who had it at livery to give it correct exercise for its back ........... turned out that the horse had an abcess in both hind feet and was going to be PTS as all the "back" treatment hadn't worked and it was still hobbling around the field. Just happened that the farrier was asked to trim its feet ........

That horse is now winning show jumping.
 
Had one back person about 8 years ago on the yard I was at at the time, she had her head so far up her own backside it was difficult to understand what she said as it was rather mumbled, she was extremely rude, needles to say I wasn't going to spend any of my money with her.

Got a very nice lady to do mine now when needed.
 
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