Bad habits picked up whilst out in broodie loan

Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
Hi,

After retiring my mare from ridden work 4 years ago last year we looked into loaning her out to be a brood mare for surrogacy as she's a big warm blood with x
good confirmation, temperament and super easy to work with. We partnered with a vets practice who run a breeding programme and in late May last year she went to the vets to be scoped and to be added to their waiting list. She then stayed at the vets to be paired with a donor as they thought she'd work for one of the mares currently on site, unfortunately it didn't quite work out but by end of June last year she'd been found a loan home, contracts(standard bhs) were signed and off she went to her new home.

I received word on Friday that she was confirmed pregnant and a strong healthy heartbeat was detected which is fantastic news.
I then got an extremely angry phone call from the loaner today stating I had lied and commited fraud as i had not told her my horse weaves. This is the first I have heard of it, I have owned her since 2013 and she has never weaved or been stabled near a horse that weaves in all the time I've owned her.

The person who has her on loan has stated she will be seeking her costs back from me including stabling and feed since July 2018 as well as the costs of having her mares eggs harvested and the cost of the grade A stallion she has been put to plus all veterinary fees from July 2018 up until the foal is born. She is also demanding that my horse stays with her in isolation so as 'not to infect' the other horses on her yard and that I have to pay her £250 a week in stabling until the foal is born at which point she will have them separated at birth and another mare found to look after the foal.

I can get proof from yard owners and livery managers as well as the vets she stayed at to prove that she did not weave whilst in my care or theirs but does anyone else think she has a leg to stand on regarding this?

I'm myself very upset to hear that she has picked up this behaviour since being away from my care and I can understand that the foals prospects are now not what they hoped for but find it baffling that this was her reaction. If anyone has any thoughts/experience with this kind of thing I'd be grateful for any help.

I'm hoping it was heat of the moment and she won't follow through with her threats but it's hard to know for sure.
 

Meowy Catkin

Meow!
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,635
Visit site
Your horse has started to weave because she is stressed. I would be worried about their care of her. How much turnout is she getting?

The fact that they don't understand weaving (it's not a disease - I mean 'infect', seriously? - and horses don't copy it despite anecdotes) it's a stereotypical behaviour basically caused by mental anguish.
 
Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
She is talking bollocks. Stand firm.
My Dad's mare weaved like a good 'un and gave us several lovely foals none of whom ever did so the woman is also a fruitcake, as well as a con artist.

Thank you for that, truly made me laugh out loud which I sorely needed after that phone call. And thank you for the support, much appreciated:)
 

TheMule

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 October 2009
Messages
5,480
Visit site
Oh blimey, what a cheek!
Stand firm, she has been happy with the horse for this long. From a legal point of view I don't think she has any standing. However, if it was my mare I'd want her out of there so I would consider what you can do to have the mare give the woman her foal once it's born, if that's what she's absolutely intent on doing.
 
Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
Your horse has started to weave because she is stressed. I would be worried about their care of her. How much turnout is she getting?

The fact that they don't understand weaving (it's not a disease - I mean 'infect', seriously? - and horses don't copy it despite anecdotes) it's a stereotypical behaviour basically caused by mental anguish.
I am worried too. as i understand it she lives out with two other brood mares although she may have been seperated from them now, Im hoping that once she (the loaner) has had a chance to calm down that we can talk about this rationally and i can go see her and my mare and help get to the bottom of this all. She's always been a very independent mare, no matter who or what she's been around it's not like her (in my experience) for her to get overly attached to anyone or anything and she's bright as a button (annoyingly so) so to hear she's stressed does make me wonder if I made the right decision sending her out to be a broodie. The woman who has her has a very good reputation for high standards of care and the vets couldnt fault her otherwise I'd never have agreed for her to go. Just goes to show you can't always tell with people
 

twiggy2

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 July 2013
Messages
11,401
Location
Highlands from Essex
Visit site
I would go amd visit thw mare, I would want to check and see how she is being kept if she has started weaving.
If she wants all costs then I would point out that I would take the mare back now and pay all costs but she will have no right to the foal.
Weaving is caused by poor management and care, there is no need for the mare to be isolated as Clodagh says the woman is talking bullocks and I would call her bluff.
 

Meowy Catkin

Meow!
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,635
Visit site
Is she a very old school BHS ish but verging on the military/cavalry type horse keeper (I don't know how else to describe it)? I know one of those and although their horses are spotless and the paddocks are pristine, they are miserable. She once rode down the drive and onto the property and told me that I shouldn't turn my horses out together because 'they encourage each other'. No explanation about what they encourage each other to do...
 

Equi

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2010
Messages
13,243
Visit site
If the horse is weaving it’s something the stable set up/management is doing wrong not the horse!

Tell her to wise up and send the mare to a field.

Do not pay her any money for anything!
 

windand rain

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2012
Messages
8,517
Visit site
She sounds like she wants her cake and eat it She wants you to pay for the foal but give it to her that simply isnt going to happen I hope The only solution if she doesnt want the mare is to send it back under the contract and forget any costs as you didnt instigate them and my guess is that you dont really want the bother of foaling the mare so she should pay for that too and for the subsequent foal at weaning it is irresponsible to take a foal from its mum at birth the only claim she has to the foal is the eggs and possibly the stud fee after all non of this was at your request you were just trying to help someone out
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO
Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
Well if it's money she's after she won't get a penny from me, as a disabled student working 2 jobs to make ends meet I'm the definition of broke 😂

I'm trying to arrange to go see her, she's roughly 7 maybe 8 hour drive from me at the moment, hopefully I can either work with her to find out what's causing my poor girl to stress or negotiate to get her home ASAP.

I've also got in touch with an equine law firm in my area I'm hoping to have them review the contract and whether she can make a claim for the money - Just in case!

Thanks for all the responses guys, really helps to know I'm not alone in this
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
65,900
Location
South
Visit site
So she’s had it since June last year, and only now noticed it weaves??

You need legal advice on where you stand. The mare is yours, however the foal is not.
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
21,343
Visit site
She sounds like a psycho.
You cannot reason with a psycho.

I’d get yourself some legal advice pronto. In a normal loan situation I’d want to retrieve my horse immediate, on a breeding loan it’s a bit more complicated.

Hope you get some sense out of this person.
 
Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
So finally got some sense out of the woman, apparently she only weaves at feed time and when getting near to turn out time. As of yesterday she is now living out full time with two others at a field a few miles from the loaners yard where she spent last summer and is apparently full of the joys of spring. She did sort of apologise for blowing things out of proportion, sort of.

I will be going to see her on Thursday to inspect and discuss how we move this forward.

I also had a meeting with a legal guy this afternoon who said she hasn't got a leg to stand on if she were to push for any money and the contract is watertight on that part which is a big relief, I'm meeting up with them again after Thursday to discuss next steps if we need to move her

Fingers crossed we can manage this amicably
 

Pinkvboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
21,348
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
She sounds a bit if an idiot I think your doing the right thing going to visit, it sounds like her routine may have changed a bit as in coming in, if she has had long periods of living out it can take time for them to settle again to being stabled.
 
Joined
11 March 2013
Messages
27
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
So just to give you guys a bit of an update,

Went to the yard and arrived to a box of chocolates and a bouquet of flowers with a sorry card attached and a very sheepish yard owner who had a lot of apologising to do. Cutting a long (4 hour) chat short she had had one of her heavily pregnant brood mares put down after complications with the pregnancy meaning she lost the foal and the mare who she had owned for 18 years and was one of her first homebreds before being passed the news by a temping groom that the two newest recip mares weave. She has now sold the other recip mare on after investigating and finding it has weaved for the past 10 years and it was not mentioned at purchase. My mare was stabled with the mare that weaved for 3 days and was seen to head toss at dinner time and turn out time which the groom mistook for weaving.

The yard itself is a great set up, all horses are healthy and happy and my mare is in a 15 acre field with 5 other mares at present. She is fat, healthy with a good shiny coat and her feet are being well cared for. I was able to inspect every nook and cranny of the yard, met all 36 horses, spoke to staff (bar the one who reported she weaved as she only works for them a few weeks a year to cover holidays), watched and assisted in the exercise of some of their main horses and spoke to the owner of 3 of the horses on site, (one of which is a beautiful 4 month old filly) who were all satisfied with the yard and its management. They all did mention that the yard owner has a big heart and treats them all like her own and took the recent loss of foal and mare very hard indeed.

We left things amicably so hopefully it'll stay that way! Thanks for all the support guys, really appreciate it
 
Top