Bad Hay full livery WWYD

[andytiger]

Any Advice please.
I am on full livery, hay and hard feed are included in price.
I choose not to use there hard feed but do not ask for a reduction in price as it is my choice.
the hay this year is terrible up untill feb you would occasionally get the bad bale the hay is always steamed but now they are all bad full of mould and steaming it only makes it moulder and damper.
the yard is aware the hay is bad (they cut there own)as it wasn’t cut until aug and left in rain for a few days
my horse has developed a significant cough so I have have to put him on haylege to see if it improves before I see the vet. (advice given by my vet)
so WWYD
A.suck up the extra cost
B. ask for a reduction in my livery bill ( there are a few other liveries unhappy they will want to buy there own hay aswell so opening a can of worms.
C. change my horse on to there hard feed so less cost they feed good feed my (horse is quite sensitive to changes in feed ) so not ideal but they don’t bad quality feed I like the feed I give him.
I’m very happy at the yard and everything has always been good it was a difficult year for hay just not sure what to do.

 

[wiglet]

Well I guess there's no harm in asking for a reduction, they'll either say yes or no. If they say no and overall you're happy with the yard, you'll have to suck up the extra cost - move on to their hard feed to offset a bit of the extra cost?
In fairness, you will probably struggle to find nice hay right now so haylage would be the way to go IMO

 

[Mrs G]

When this happened on a yard I was on, I just sucked it up and bought my own small bales of hay, stored it in my garage at home and took as and when needed to the yard. The yard I was on would never have agreed to a reduction in livery fees.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Definitely go for haylage. I'd provide my own & ask for a discount. They may even be glad if they are having trouble with their supplies or if they say "no" you haven't lost anything!

ETA - avoid mouldy hay at all costs. It can do permanent damage to your own lungs, as well as your horse's

 

[dorsetladette]

I'd have a frank conversation with the yard owner.

I ended up with a horse with life long issues (COPD) due to poor forage being fed without my knowledge whilst I was away on holiday. Eventually he was managed without medication, but the cost of getting him right again was expensive and then the relapses where upsetting for both him and me.

I'm probably biased due to past experience, but for me quality forage is essential for me.

 

[Equi]

They provide the hay, if you choose not to use it i think you have to suck up the cost. Its still provided.

That being said, if enough of you come together and say it’s not suitable (and that they need to change it) they may be forced to buy in some better hay and then it’s their cost to absorb as they state they provide hay.

 

[ihatework]

Whatever I chose, it would have been stopping feeding their hay the minute it became obvious it was non feedable.

The crux of this would balance on how much the full livery was. What the yard should be doing is proactively re-costing their service and communicating the options to liveries.

It would make the most sense to buy good stuff in bulk, and pass on at least a % of the cost difference to clients

But we all know how crap some yards can be. I’d definitely broach the subject with YM but ultimately be prepared to buy in my own or move to better yard as most appropriate

 

[criso]

I would actually want the vet to see my horse first so they can assess his breathing, see the hay and if they then suggest haylage, approach the yard with the vet's recommendations and see what they say. I'd be prepared for the yard not to be helpful though.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would ask to knock off cost of hay as they are not providing suitable forage, other liveries must be aware and not happy it might be worth you all speaking to the ym to see how it can be sorted long term.

What's the point of paying full livery if you are having to supply 90% of your horses food intake, they can't expect people to just put up with it.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Not an isolated issue this winter sadly. Hay making window was so small in 2023 with super stuff but small quantities, being made in June and then a big gap before the weather came right again in late summer. I have had to send bales back this year, both wrapped hay and hay plus one bale of haylage.

If your yard makes their own they will be reluctant to buy in, but rubbish hay equals sick horses and very expensive drugs. Could all the owners speak as a group to the yard and see if some negotiations could be done perhaps.

Lets hope 2024 is a better hay making year. There could be further problems yet though, because if the land doesn't dry up soon and stock get turned out, what is left of the 2023 crop will become scarce. A fair bit is already being shipped south to north now.

 

[maya2008]

I would suggest you all go to YO together. Hard for them to say no when all their clients are complaining.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Any Advice please.
I am on full livery, hay and hard feed are included in price.
I choose not to use there hard feed but do not ask for a reduction in price as it is my choice.
the hay this year is terrible up untill feb you would occasionally get the bad bale the hay is always steamed but now they are all bad full of mould and steaming it only makes it moulder and damper.
the yard is aware the hay is bad (they cut there own)as it wasn’t cut until aug and left in rain for a few days
my horse has developed a significant cough so I have have to put him on haylege to see if it improves before I see the vet. (advice given by my vet)
so WWYD
A.suck up the extra cost
B. ask for a reduction in my livery bill ( there are a few other liveries unhappy they will want to buy there own hay aswell so opening a can of worms.
C. change my horse on to there hard feed so less cost they feed good feed my (horse is quite sensitive to changes in feed ) so not ideal but they don’t bad quality feed I like the feed I give him.
I’m very happy at the yard and everything has always been good it was a difficult year for hay just not sure what to do.

I would certainly tell YO that my horse must not be fed mouldy hay and then ask what alternative they can offer; either bought in better hay/haylage or a reduction in your bill so that you can buy your own. They won't be able to give you enough of a reduction to enable a straight swap to bagged haylage, which might be all that is available now, so it will be more costly.

 

[tristars]

dim, make hay while the sun shines

makes me furious when they dole out bad hay, for christ sake decent hay the most important thing!

 

[Tiddlypom]

There is very little good 2023 hay about, as in much of the country there was not a suitable weather window in which to make it. People who did make hay often had to rush it and baled it too early - hence there being so much bad hay about.

I struck lucky and got 2022 hay in. Normally we make our own, but 2023 was a washout here so none made at all.

If you can source good hay, then get it in, but there is very little to be found.

 

[Rowreach]

dim, make hay while the sun shines

makes me furious when they dole out bad hay, for christ sake decent hay the most important thing!

We had a three week window here last year, that's to get the grass upright, dry enough, the ground dry enough, get it cut, turned, made, baled, sat for a couple of days, in, stacked and stored safely. And it was the last week in May and the first two weeks of June, which was a bit early for that carry on, and after a really wet cold spring as well. Luckily my hay chap got his in and stored 30 for me, plus a couple of 2022 bales that saw me through the wettest summer ever. It wasn't the best hay I've had, I've definitely had to chuck a bit, but we can't be that fussy and with the advent of wetter summers we are going to have to realise that we will probably be having to think of other options than beautiful summer hay of the Darling Buds of May variety.

Mouldy hay I would not tolerate, would not feed and would not pay for. Below par quality is something else.

 

[tristars]

We had a three week window here last year, that's to get the grass upright, dry enough, the ground dry enough, get it cut, turned, made, baled, sat for a couple of days, in, stacked and stored safely. And it was the last week in May and the first two weeks of June, which was a bit early for that carry on, and after a really wet cold spring as well. Luckily my hay chap got his in and stored 30 for me, plus a couple of 2022 bales that saw me through the wettest summer ever. It wasn't the best hay I've had, I've definitely had to chuck a bit, but we can't be that fussy and with the advent of wetter summers we are going to have to realise that we will probably be having to think of other options than beautiful summer hay of the Darling Buds of May variety.

Mouldy hay I would not tolerate, would not feed and would not pay for. Below par quality is something else.

agree, thats why i think if its good early weather take the opportunity ,its not poss any longer to let the moment pass, i would much rather have early decent low yeild than wait hoping for a bigger crop

but ireland had decent hay summer 22 so there is some around, very good near my son in kildare , very nice hay from 22 and he says its 12 or so years since a bad hay summer
i think planning ahead is the way, always keep some in stock, even if it means buying some

i would not use any hay that looks below par without testing for aspergilus, if its not loose and `smells like hay` its probably dangerous to man and beast

one year when i lived in france, normandy the hay was cut and baled in 24 hours it was so warm and windy, it was fabulous stuff too!

 

[Lucky Snowball]

we didn’t get chance to cut until September. Forecast was good so we cut and turned then the forecast changed to rain next day. We were turning over and over trying to dry but it was baled two days early really. Chose to wrap it and go for haylage. Not ideal but better than Mouldy hay.

 

[Rowreach]

agree, thats why i think if its good early weather take the opportunity ,its not poss any longer to let the moment pass, i would much rather have early decent low yeild than wait hoping for a bigger crop

but ireland had decent hay summer 22 so there is some around, very good near my son in kildare , very nice hay from 22 and he says its 12 or so years since a bad hay summer
i think planning ahead is the way, always keep some in stock, even if it means buying some

i would not use any hay that looks below par without testing for aspergilus, if its not loose and `smells like hay` its probably dangerous to man and beast

one year when i lived in france, normandy the hay was cut and baled in 24 hours it was so warm and windy, it was fabulous stuff too!

Your son is very lucky then as nobody I know in the horse world has hay lying about, and even the golden hay counties of Wicklow and Waterford are looking to buy in from elsewhere. And what there is around is unbelievably expensive. I've already booked 40 off the field from my hay man for this year, no idea where we'll put it but I'll squish it in somewhere, and then hopefully have some over for next (wet) summer.

 

[tristars]

Your son is very lucky then as nobody I know in the horse world has hay lying about, and even the golden hay counties of Wicklow and Waterford are looking to buy in from elsewhere. And what there is around is unbelievably expensive. I've already booked 40 off the field from my hay man for this year, no idea where we'll put it but I'll squish it in somewhere, and then hopefully have some over for next (wet) summer.

quite a few produce for racehorses in leinster, barn dried and several test all the hay, yes its pricey but if its decent weight hay bales not too bad, he has paid 50 quid some years if buying in extra, and the bales lasted longer than the cheaper, so saving on other feedstuffs

seems to be about 45 to 50 euros 4 x 4 at the mo down there, but was 35 e of the field, the hay i`m using is 2 yrs old and its beautiful stuff

great idea to keep some in, i love` hay security`!

there are quite a lot of hay producers around athy still selling so i`m told

 

[Jambarissa]

Whilst I understand they didn't purposefully produce bad hay they are negligent in feeding it to your horse. It is their problem to solve and they should be very worried about the likelihood of being presented with vet bills.

Are your horses still fed over summer? So probably nothing suitable until autumn?

Realistically if you can afford to feed your own hay/haylage do that because I very much doubt they will have the means to buy in decent stuff. Only real chance is if you all get together and complain, but all you can actually do if they refuse is leave. I would not feed mouldy stuff even for a day, I can't believe a livery yard would risk this.

I'd be looking at other yards particularly ones who buy in since they'll be picky with what they get. I had a small bale delivery today to mix with my haylage and it's lovely stuff, they buy in from auction and deliver at £5.30 a bale.

 

[AdorableAlice]

dim, make hay while the sun shines

makes me furious when they dole out bad hay, for christ sake decent hay the most important thing!

That comment is equally dim, you obviously did not try to make hay in 2023. No contractor or farmer sets out to make rubbish hay. Last year the weather made hay making and combining very difficult.

 

[Trouper]

Whether it was difficult or not to make hay last year, that is no excuse for feeding damaging unhealthy hay to any animal. As a livery business they have a duty of care to the animals in their charge/on their premises.

They should cease to use it and give you the option of a reduction or to provide your own.

 

[Barklands]

dim, make hay while the sun shines

makes me furious when they dole out bad hay, for christ sake decent hay the most important thing!

Very true - shockingly last year we got the best cut of hay that we've ever had as we timed it right - and we're up in the North where the weather speaks for itself! Good hay was possible last year!

Mouldy hay when you're paying for full livery is just not on imo and poster should not be having to suck up the cost plus vet bills just because they timed the cut poorly

 

[irishdraft]

I wouldn't feed mouldy hay to my horses you'll end up damaging their lungs. Source your own hay or haylage & try to sort out a reduction in livery but I still wouldn't feed mouldy hay personally. It's something I am very fussy about but am extremely lucky as I have plenty of good hay from 22 & 23 as we make our own.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I agree you need to speak to the yard and I think they should knock a bit of money off.
As above hay making ‘23 was hard but mouldy isn’t on.
A bit dusty or just not great, yes but mouldy no.

We make our own but sadly have a rule that it can’t be cut before a certain date, meaning we missed the early dry window.
We had to sell it and buy more in from someone who had made it earlier in the year, it’s still not wonderful though.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry but I couldn't (and didn't) leave my horse on full livery in a yard that fed bad forage. If they will knowingly feed mouldy hay that's making horses cough, what else will they shortcut on?
.

 

[Bobthecob15]

If you can get your own id do that and ask for a reduction or get haylage….providing it doesn’t send your horse loopy as some do react to it.

Failing that id be looking at going elsewhere, yes its a bad year for hay but no excuse for mouldy hay. That was the nail in the coffin for us and we moved yards.

 

[Arzada]

We make our own but sadly have a rule that it can’t be cut before a certain date,

Why is rule in place?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Our hay from last year has been good and have been told there is plenty of it compared to the previous 2 years.

 

[Auslander]

As a YO - I wouldn't feed dodgy hay, and I would fully expect a rocket up my backside if I did. I buy my hay and haylage in, and spend over £1k a month on it, so on the rare occasion i get a dodgy bale, I'm straight on the phone to my supplier, who comes out and replaces it asap. He's a diamond - some suppliers will argue til they're blue in the face - or they'll replace it, but leave you to dispose of the dodgy bale.