Bad Mannered Horse!! Any advice greatly received!! (Long)

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Kirsty5150

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I have had my horse Sonny for about a month now. He is a 16.3hh IDXTB and he's a 10yr old gelding. He is lovely to ride, he has a big jump, lovely paces and an easy going nature. It all goes horribly wrong though when I handle him on the ground. When I bought him the owner said he was a bit grumpy to tack up and groom, which was fine.

When I bought him I tacked him and groomed him several times on several different occasions and he would just put his ears back and occasionally try and nip. When I handle him in the field he is fine, has never been grumpy with me and is generally very affectionate.

When I bring him in to ride however it is a different story. In the stable he will not stand still he walks in circles constantly and if I'm in their he will trap me against the wall. I have tried putting a hay net in but it makes no difference. When I try and leave he pushes at the door. Twice now he has escaped after barging me out of the way, he runs around the yard and today ran onto the road, luckily he came back in as my friend was racing to catch him. Eventually with the promise of some food she managed to catch him.

If I tie him up out of the stable with a hay net, sometimes he will settle and stand still for me other times he will pull so hard to get free and is constantly moving around, banging me up against the wall. Rugging him up is a nightmare as he kicks out when i try to do up the belly straps.

It all came to a head today when he pushed me so hard to get out of his stable that I fell backwards and knocked myself out. My husband has now given me an ultimatum as he is fed up of me being hurt. I love this horse dearly and as I said he is angel to ride, so to me selling him is not an option, i don't want to give up on him.

So has anyone got any idea's regarding dealing with this bullish behaviour. Any advice would be wonderful! I know I haven't had him long do you think this behaviour will die down with time and effort?

I do not see myself as a timid handler and can put up with a bit of bad behaviour but this is getting me down and I'm not sure that there's a bit of my body I don't have a bruise on! Thanks in advance
 
Sounds to me like he just doesnt respect your personal space. Have you tried using a pressure halter on him just training him to stand in the school while your holding...if he moves tighten the pressure if he stand reward him. He will soon get the message im sure. I use pressure halters on any youngsters we get at the yard it works wonders
 
I think that for now you need to tie him up in his stable whenever you are in there with him so that he can't hurt you and can't escape. It might be good to get a chain or bar to go across his doorway, so that you can slip under it easily to get in and out but he can't, so removing the risk of him barging you out the doorway. Do you do much groundwork with him? (lunging, long reining etc) I think this would help as he would learn to respect you more.
 
Always tie him up in the stable - and make it short!
Try to do everything carefully and nicely so he thinks your making friends and he has no valid reason to be nasty.
If this doesnt work dont be afraid to be bolshy back to him - dont stroke him, dont talk to him and dont give him treats.
He should soon learn its much better to be nice to you.
Finally, as he is so big and he is so bolshy i would wear a body protector for a few months until he calms down - it means that your safer when handling him and that will give you more confidence to deal with him.
Good luck!
 
My IDxTB can be like this, although not as bad as yours. I put a heavy duty chain across his stable door - don't bother with the friendly rubber covered ones, they didn't last five minutes. Once the chain was on and he knew he couldn't get out he stopped trying. Also I tie him up in his stable to do anything to him.

He has got 100 times better than when we first had him. Once he knows he can't do something he stops trying.

He now lives in a barn in his own section of cow yard which is quite huge and he has changed completely. He went there with a health warning and the people who own the yard can't imagine what I was talking about as he hasn't put a foot out of line!

I still have to tie him up to put his tack on and he occasionally forgets that he isn't allowed to squash me against the wall, but I find turning his head to me and a sharp prod with my finger into his shoulder reminds him!
 
To lunge is as good as he is to ride, he listens to my commands and he seems to enjoy himself. In the field he is happy for me to change rugs and even have a cuddle its as soon as I get to the stable block with him that he turns into a bully.

Thanks for the advice about the bar across the door, I'll get one put up, hopefully give me a chance to escape before I'm crushed!

I have never used a pressure halter before, is it easy to use for a beginner?
 
Pressure halter. Long lead line. Schooling whip.

Pressure halter and long line work: there are some really good books that will guide you in how to use them properly (or pm me if you want the basics).

In the stable, use a schooling whip to 'ask' your horse to back up and to move over: again the books will tell you how (or pm me).

My new mare is big and a bit bargy, and we've had a few conversations, but I stand my ground and get her to move her feet, rather than letting her make me move mine; if she is stood in the way I make her move when I want to get from A to B; and generally encourage her not to treat me as though I am thin air! We're getting to the point where she will usually move away from the pressure of my hand, but not always, so we're still working on it and will every day.

Must dash, work is calling
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My horse is v similar to this although not gruimpy about being groomed but he can be bargyand basically has no respect for people on the ground! Great when you're on though. I bought him an Eskadron chain headcollar recently as he is bargy and can run off when being led and, after 13 years I saw the headcollar and voila! I have regained control!

I still ask for him to get back from the stable door when i am going in and out though and mostly he will now do it although occasionally he will still catch me off guard. I would def tie this horse up to groom in the stable

He just sounds pushy and as if he is testing the water so it is now you need to let him know you are boss! Make him move awayfrom you with you voice, body language and a whip if if responds to that. It shouldn't take too long for you to get respect, It's not about being aggressive just being dominant and firm! I think you can win this battle!

If you think a bar or chain will work then try it.
 
I agree with tying him up when handling him. I would also carry a short whip (you know the stubby ones for jumping) when handling him for a while, and if he comes into your space (at all - not just if he squishes you against the wall!) give him a prod in the ribs or the chest (depending on where you are - to push him away) as this will have more effect than you pushing with your hand.

Or you could try using two fingers to jab him and maybe get the message across. You need to be very strict and consistent so he knows in no uncertain terms that he has to respect your space. Don't ignore his behaviour and don't accept it
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Ok - firstly you have to gain his respect. You need to do some ground work with him to ensure he respects your space. Firm but calm handling. Consistancy is the key. Insist he backs up every single time you go in the stable. Use a pressure halter - a Dually if you have one - but use it correctly. No shouting, No hitting. he needs to learn to stand still when you ask him to. I personally do not tie up any of my horses in their stables. if I tie up I do it outside so I have more room around them. But I expect my horses to move away from me when I ask them to and not barge me round the stable. And in my opinion a tied up horse in a stable has nowhere to escape and it puts you as the handler in dangerous proximity if he is retaliating to pain. If you are not sure about ground work and how to go about establishing respect for you and your personal space then I would call out a Monty Roberts Recommended Associate to help you. I am sure an hours groundwork session with them will help solve your problem and you can start enjoying handling him.

then you need to be sure he has no pain. Have you had his back checked recently. Does his saddle fit. Is his saddle free from sharp lumps inside which cause pressure. Do his rugs fir. Has he got Gastric ulcers. All these can lead to grumpiness and discomfort. If he is in pain under his saddle then anything he associates with being ridden will make him grumpy as he knows the pain he will be in
 
If he's so good at other times it really sounds like he is stressed in his stable to me, and desperate to get out. are there other horses on the yard too? or is he brought in alone?

I'd personally do a bit of bringing him in, feeding him and turfing him out again so he starts to think of his stable as a positive place.

My mare box walks when she is stressed and will walk over me if i get in the way. No amound of discipline helps - she's not trying to be mean. I've found putting the radio on helps - she likes local radio as it has mellow pop on it. We had a real break through when I discovered that her whithers are always itchy. if she gets agitated i stop tacking her up and grab a curry comb and give her a thorough grooming. She then goes all floppy and relaxed, and then I can carry on. I only groom her ichy spots in the stable.

I think this works because it makes being with me pleasant and I am a source of comfort to her if she's upset.

I've also done a lot of groundwork making her back up when I want, just to give her some awareness of my personal space.

I hasten to add, I am firm, I square up to her if she box walks and will not move out of her way so she has to go round me - I'm very clear that she's junior to me as I'm aware grooming her could put me beneath her in the pecking order.

good luck!!
 
he had his back checked three weeks ago and I have had his saddle fitted correctly. I had a new set of shoes fitted a week ago and he had his teeth done just before he came to me. I have my vet coming out next week to do his vaccinations so I will have him checked out for any issues then.

Thanks for all the advice its very much apprecited!! I feel more confident now that me and Sonny can get through this! Thank you very much!
 
My boy (who I have had for 3 months) is a little like yours with the grumpiness and bargy in the stable except he will stand still tied up outside.

However I honestly believe its not his overall personality but that he is either in pain or in doing it at the thought of remembered pain and that he has suffered at the harsh hands of someone else in his younger years. I guess the difference is whether you think your boy is bolshy because he has a dominant personality or because of other issues - seperation, pain etc. I think my boy is the latter - he gets very worried if I show any signs of being angry with him, never seems naughty just for the sake of it and I cant imagine him tanking off with me ridden or in hand.

Anyhow this is how I addressed the same issues:

Re bargy out of the stable - I have spent time working with him to not push me around (basically I became herd leader and any attempt to rush past me resulted in me acting aggressively (sharp movement, growling and if necessary a sharp smack) and insisting that he could not come past me mimicing natural herd behaviour. I started doing this by just standing inside the stable door with it shut and not allowing him to push me out of the way to get his head over - good behaviour i.e. standing back and moving backwards when Iasked was rewarded with pats and treats. I progressed to opening it a little bit once I was comfortable he wouldnt mow me over and finally got to the stage where I could stand with the door open fully and me stood to the side and he would wait until I gave permission for him to come out. I make a point of always pausing once the door is opening before he comes out or l lead him out. Thankfully once he realised that I couldnt be messed with he is very respectful of my space but I can see how easily that respect could be lost.

Is your boy being bargy because he is anxious about where other horses are? - I think its quite common for horses to suffer seperation anxiety and this will result in him fidgeting.

As for the grumpiness with grooming, rugging and tacking up, my boy is exactly the same. He is a star to ride, mount, load, clip, jump, with other horses, hack out alone but he hates me adjusting his rug and putting on his saddle and doing his grith up. Never bites just grumpy faces and stamping of feet. Again I think that this is due in part to his history - he has high withers which have a huge white patch on them so he obviously has had problems. He hates being brushed with prickly brushes particularly over bony areas so bought the softest brush I could find and he is better. If I yank his mane about when brushing mud out he hates it but if I am gentle he is fine. If I am gentle and reassuring putting on his saddle and doing up his girth rather than slapping down the saddle and yanking up girth he is better and seems to be improving.

I suspect someone has been very rough, unsensitve and untolerant with him. However I am having a Back lady out to rule out any pain issues relating to this uncomfortableness with being rugged, tacked up and groomed just to double check. He is also grumpy when he is fed so obviosuly had to fight for his food.

So....not sure if that helped and I guess I am trying to say that maybe there are other reasons for him being bolshy. If you dont think so then you need to be very dominant with him - lots of ground work, moving over, backwards etc to get him to respect you.
 
What happens if you tie him up outside his stable? I had one that would stand all day if tied up outside, but if I tried to rug/tack up/groom in the stable was a total idiot.
 
It's a bit odd that he only seems to behave this way in the stable. If he tried to bully you in the field, on the lunge, leading, in the stable, etc. I would agree with everyone else's really good ideas re handling, but it's a bit odd that it's a problem only in the stable. Do you think it's an indoors problem? Could he be claustophobic and acting out because he is stressed? What is he like in other eclosed spaces like a horsebox? If his behaviour is caused by fear you might have to take a different approach than if it is caused by overconfidence and trying to dominate you.
 
he was fine in the box on the way home, he was a bit tentative getting in to it but it only took a couple of minutes to get him loaded. The stable he had at his old yard was smaller than the one he has now and he was very comfortable there. The yard he was at previously was very busy where as there are only 3 horses at my yard all on diy livery (including him!).

I really can't tell weather he is afraid or being dominant. I am going to fit the chain to the stable door so that I can escape if necessary and also invest in a pressure halter and spend a lot more time on the ground with him. Only time will tell I suppose but I determined to sort this out.
 
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