Bad sportsmanship

I think most of the people here make good points

for instance happyhack i also would take a horse home and work on its probs if it was being ridiculously badly behaved

and as above people have said i think three smacks is enough if that doesn't work i have to say personally i would try another tactic.

My biggest issue with that child would also be the swearing, the horse may not understand anything but the tone but all the people in the show ground can, i'm not saying i never swear when a horse is being naughty i just only do it at home.
 
the world is full of them. it really does boggle the mind-how on earth do they get on in life with such attitude issues?!
the worst are the adults-full grown women (mostly im sad to say) acting like 2 year olds, with foul language and so aggressive.ive come across alot of them!i bet most of them dont act like that in work!!!
 
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I bet you would beat a child too

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Ok horse's are not children, you do realise that? I would smack a child not that I think it's the same thing but I was smacked and it never done me any harm. I wouldn't beat a child until it bruised, if we are making comparative that would be like hitting ahorse til it marked, which I am against.

I would not swear at a child as children learn to speak and would then learn to swear (well quicker than they do from other children) a horse on the other hand can tell no difference between you yelling 'Oh please don't do that you little ball of furry fun' and 'You f**cking little B*satrd, do that one more time and I swear I'll send you to the knacker man' for animals it's tone of voice so the swearing really isn't abuse, it's the shouting in general that affects the horse.

And just becasue a child choose to smacked a pony does not mean that it is not empathetic of the ponies feelings, all humans feel empathy that's what makes us human. It's not something we can switch on and off, it is something we can ignore or put aside. Children cannot do this as easily as adults, if the child felt that it had geniunely hurt the horse I'm sure he/she would feel guilty afterwards.

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You are spot on about your comment about not swearing at children as they learn by other peoples behaviour. So why do you think it's ok to hit children? If an adult hits a child they are teaching that child that violence is the answer. You say you were hit as a child and you think it's ok to do it. That's because you have learnt that from your parents. I would never hit a child, it's an abuse of power.
I've worked with children with emotional and behavioural problems and there are plenty of alternatives to hitting them. When you work with children it's actually illegal to hit them anyway so you have to be more creative and look at other methods.

As for the pony in the ring, it may have deserved a little smack to get it to go forward. However, if I had witnessed a child behave in such a manner at a show I would have been disgusted.
 
Ok I didn't expect this to start a major debate. I think if you read my original post I was complaining about EXCESSIVE use of the whip. She kept walloping the pony even when it was going forward and had stopped napping. She then thwacked it at every jump instead of using her legs and then she shouted abuse at someone as she came charging out of the ring nearly mowing others down. Not once did she praise the pony. Personally if I had been that pony I would have dumped her on the floor not just napped a little bit. So to say this was a competent child riding well I would have to disagree. However If people want to praise children for that type of riding so be it.
 
I've seen excessive use of a whip at a small competition before and the people i was with actually complained about the rider and she was eliminated. this was under BSJA rules and am i right in thinking showing doesnt have the same sort of regulations?

and poor pony, i thought it was common sense of riders that when their horse does the right thing they praise them in some fashion i.e. stop smacking them!
 
There's a world of difference between a rider using the whip smartly to correct naughtiness and beating the animal unnecessarily because it embarrassed him/her in some way. We've all seen and heard adults and child riders bawling at and smacking their horses purely out of temper and shame - and it shouldn't be tolerated at a showground any more than a temper tantrum should be in a supermarket.

Children need to be shown that violence is rarely the right answer, and certainly not praised or rewarded for displaying it.
 
Well that's a slightly different story
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and I too would have been annoyed to see a child hitting a pony before every fence, smacking it when it was going forward etc but that was not really how the OP portrait the scene.

As for hitting kids, that is a whole other threads worth of arguements that would be best suited in SB. All I can say is crime levels were alot lower way back when you could cane your kids.
 
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Ok I didn't expect this to start a major debate. I think if you read my original post I was complaining about EXCESSIVE use of the whip. She kept walloping the pony even when it was going forward and had stopped napping. She then thwacked it at every jump instead of using her legs and then she shouted abuse at someone as she came charging out of the ring nearly mowing others down. Not once did she praise the pony. Personally if I had been that pony I would have dumped her on the floor not just napped a little bit. So to say this was a competent child riding well I would have to disagree. However If people want to praise children for that type of riding so be it.

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You've just provided a LOT more information than you did in your original post so you can't blame us for not be psychic and knowing that all this other stuff happened before.

Yes, I will hit my horse if it is not doing what its told and I was brought up and trained to do so. I was also brought up and trained not to use the whip excessively and to know when it is needed and when it is not. If she did carry on in the manner you describe then it sounds like she did go overboard and hopefully someone did have a word in her ear afterwards (you never know what goes on behind the scenes).

I also remember being told off by my DC for excessive swearing when my pony reared and nearly landed on a barbed wire fence.... I didn't apologise.

(and no, I am not an excessive swear or user of the whip now so clearly children can be taught to use a whip without it meaning they are going to turn into horse beating maniacs)

Also, I wonder how many people on here are the ones that moan about how bitchy the horse world has gotten and how they hate it when people sit there and judge their riding when you are doing your best. Its very easy to judge people from one snap shot in time!
 
PS I am the OP and maybe I didn't explain myself enough or fill in the details fully (forgot you lot hadn't seen what happened) however I thought I had made the point that it was excessive use of the whip I was shocked at.
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KP I'm sorry I forget people aren't psychic ( note to self don't make assumptions). It is sometimes hard to write something succinctly and in this case my attempts to stop it turning into an essay were obviously too much and I had not made my point sufficiently
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With reference to Princesssparkles comments . What the hell has Parelli got to do with anything? Not everybody who doesn't believe in giving their horse a wack follows Parelli! I don't and if my mare becomes a bit nappy. which is very rare now, I use another method to make her go forward, ie turning in circles. her previous owners always gave her a good wack for napping and it made her very resentful. It has taken me almost a year to gain her trust thanks to people like PS!
 
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Horse naps - Gets a whack.
10 year old child swears- Bloody well gets a whack as well.

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Totally agree!

I do have to admit to swearing while going round the ring occasionally. I tend to rattle away to Murph all the way round anyway, so my natural reaction when he's being a s*** is to continue my monologue to him while telling him what a s*** he's being.
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Horse naps - Gets a whack.
10 year old child swears- Bloody well gets a whack as well.

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Like your style
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Me too!

(although my reaction in the past was to send my swearing child to apologise to all officials within earshot)
 
I think three swift whacks for napping is perfectly acceptable, as long as the punishment is administered immediately following the disobedience. But I cannot see a reason for walloping the pony at every fence and swearing excessively is not acceptable at a show or anywhere else for that matter.
 
I think revolting behaviour, regardless of whether it is a child or adult should be punished.

I saw someone really beat their horse in the warm up at a well known competition place and he continued it in the show-jumping ring. The horse refused 3 times & he got eliminated, sadly not for his disgusting behaviour. I dread to think what happened to the poor thing when he left public view and I was horrified to see him compete another horse 10 mins later.

If I had had anything to do with it he would have been banned. It is not good for the sport and it is not good to see.

I do not have a problem with using my whip on my horse when and if he is naughty, but I rarely ride with one and usually have to get off to go get it if he is being that bad, but I have never hit him unfairly or excessively hard.

I think it is this kind of bad sportsmanship OP might be referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkxOp_xfVEg

(Don't watch if you are sensitive...)
 
If my daughter behaved like that, swearing and repeatedly hitting her pony, I would be horrified, embarrassed and immediately take the situation in hand. When being an organiser of a show, we have ejected people from the showground for such behaviour.

I think it was Hussar who summed up quite well what I thought, a spoilt, bad tempered child is not to be encouraged, an effective and forward thinking child is, there is no reason why the pony should not be smacked for napping, but there are ways of doing it effectively and with dignity.
 
Meh, all I know is that I've never, ever needed to bollock a horse for napping (and I've ridden some nappy sods!) and there's no way on earth that I'd let some people on this thread anywhere near my horse. Or my children, for that matter.
 
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I dont have a problem with this type of encouragement at all-AT HOME. I think there is a time and a place for it.

Jeez, Bondi was a right little shite yesterday and got a good wallop from me but I would never dream of doing such a thing at a show. If things werent going right for me, I'd bow out gracefully and go home and work on what went wrong. I certainly wouldnt make a complete show of myself at a comp.

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I think you would be very much in the minority if you would bow out just because your horse was being a stubborn git. Pay all that money then go home because you're too embarassed of what other people might think? Unfortunately there are things that you just can't practise at home.

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There are also ways of quietly insisting that your horse behaves without alerting all within a large radius on a showground how well you can hit your horse and just how many swear words you know.

Put simply, you make it easy for the horse to do what you want ( and make sure he is clear about it) and difficult for the horse to do what it wants ie horse will choose the easiest way - tis in their nature
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I dont have a problem with this type of encouragement at all-AT HOME. I think there is a time and a place for it.

Jeez, Bondi was a right little shite yesterday and got a good wallop from me but I would never dream of doing such a thing at a show. If things werent going right for me, I'd bow out gracefully and go home and work on what went wrong. I certainly wouldnt make a complete show of myself at a comp.

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I think I agree with this.
Discipline has its place in all situations, but severe discipline should, I think, be confined to home situations, where you are able to take time to work out exactly what is going wrong. If the horse IS nappy, or rears etc, then 'whack whack whack' MAY be justified - but not at a show.
Mum has organised many a show in her time, and developed a reputation early on for reprimanding anyone who was too handy/gobby with their horse. Some of the sights were awful; one girl in particular took to whipping her horse across the face when it refused the first fence - Mum practically dragged her off, and disqualified her on the spot (organiser's discretion is a wonderful thing!)
I will ALWAYS remember a horrid, horrid sight at Hickstead one year. A relatively well-known show jumper, who later went on to become a top jockey, was on a mare who stopped at the first fence. He turned her away, then proceeded to beat her and beat her, until she was shaking so much that she peed herself, all over the place. This was in the main ring, and God, I wanted to drag him off and do the same to him. The poor mare
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Shocked at what you saw and even more shocked at the responses. Violence is never an answer in children or animals, it is your need to abuse, your lack of communcation that the horse doesnt understand. Beating a child or a horse is not acceptable whether in public or behind closed doors. Good riders respect their horses, bad riders abuse them!
 
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