Badger cull - for or against? Please Please watch

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TED2010

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofTpfzEUUBY&feature=player_embedded

Sorry, I know this isn't horse related but New Lounge gets lost of viewers so I was hoping I would get losts of people to watch this. I work with bTB on a daily basis and this short film still brought tears to my eyes, how anybody could not feel sad watching it I do not know. I know its nearly 15 minutes long but please please watch it to the end and share it with as many people as you can on facebook, by email etc to raise awareness of what this terrible disease does and what a waste of beautiful life.

Thank you
 
Haven't had a chance to share it yet but will when I get a chance. Saw this on countryfile at the weekend. So so sad. Something needs doing Soon before the situation gets worse. Fwiw I'm all for a cull IF it will improve the situation but for as long as the bunny hugging terrorists kick up a fuss I fear nothing will happen
 
so sad when the UK was sooooo close in the 80s to eradicating the disease altogether, and then they took their eye off the ball by (rightly) trying to protect badgers from badger baiters but went way over the top by doing a blanket protection which stopped farmers from clearing out the few diseased badgers in their area before they spread it elsewhere.

Cant understand why the badger uniquely among non-endangered species which predate on farm animals and wildlife alike is given gold plated protection that nothing else gets. Protect or dont protect, that's fine to decide, but dont pick on one species to protect and allow others to be controlled, like foxes, rats etc.

Sadly I think its now too late for much of the cattle (esp dairy) sector: the land where it is concentrated is now overrun with diseased badgers and unless something drastic is done eventually there will be no cattle.

Longhorn cattle for an example are certainly rarer than badgers: but they get culled if they test positive for exposure to BtB. Lets hope all the herds of them are not concentrated in the south and west of the UK, or they may be heading for extinction by culling in order to protect a species much less rare than themselves :-((( Rare breeds that are slaughtered have a limited gene pool already, in some cases they have to choose between restocking from a TB prone area or risk higher levels of inbreeding which threaten the future health of breeds of cattle.

I suspect people will change their tune once their cats dogs etc start catching it or even themselves, the big hidden TB problem in alpacas has already spread to some of their human handlers. TB is normally curable (but not always) and the treatment is extremely unpleasant, 9 months of a cocktail of very toxic drugs that can often leave people hospitalised it is so unpleasant.

As in all these things, if a sense of balance had been maintained at the start, no killing of badgers except with licence for diseased sets, then we could have had both healthy cattle and healthy badgers. Sadly now for both species, we could lose the majority of both.
 
The Cull cannot start soon enough it was prevented by the Anti Loving new labour government and their vegan minister for food and Rural afairs as it wouldnt fit with their views, and to hell with the damage and the ever escalating cost of "BTB" and what it is doing to Farmers and Country People, who as we all know were just held in contempt.

Not that i think this lot are much Better I guess I am Old enough now to say they are all the BLOO** SAME.

UP THE REVOLUTION:D
 
My FIL has just had his whole herd of 46 suckler cattle slaughtered as they were all reactors, they have been under restriction on and off for a couple of years as they would get the odd reactor, but this time everything was +. Gutting would be putting it midly. Ironically it was probably not badgers that have infected them but a herd of red deer that was released from a farm and are now breeding, there is about 26 now (6 were released). The number of reactors is increasing every year in Cornwall infact i doubt there are many farms down here that are not under restriction. It is time something was done and i hope the government don't back down, research has been going on for 40 yrs and I don't believe that they have failed to come up with a solution just that they don't want to implement the one that will be the most effective for fear of losing the urban vote.
 
Ah, more farmer propaganda. :D Works for both 'sides', let's be fair.

There obviously has to be a cull. Can't say I like it but I have to lump it realistically. Killing is cheap and easy of course.
 
It does need to happen as previous poster said once our domestic animals get it there will be hell up. And there are now strains being transferred to humans all but one strain is treatable the one that isn't has no cure or treatment and basically if that's what u get the hospital can only make you comfortable. The tb jab is also now out of date for people the disease has evolved
 
Although I agree that the affects of bovine TB are devastating for the dairy/beef industry, there is no definitive answer that the cull will eradicate TB. There are still many in the vet sector who favour vaccination and I would prefer that this was trialled first, as will now happen in Wales.

And before you all shout me down as a bunny hugger, I am not. I am a farmers daughter who still has strong ties with the farming community, but I feel that the cull has been introduced as a vote winner by the govt for the very strong farmer vote. I watched all my brothers livestock taken away to be slaughtered during the F&M outbreak, so I know at first hand how this affects farming families.

Once all the badgers are dead it will be too late to decide that it didn't work and cows are still catching TB.

Hopefully the challenge of the cull by the Badger Trust in the High Court will force the govt to have a change of heart.
 
All the MPs at Westminster should be made to watch the film clip as I now have Dai Bevans Composure and choice of retoric were incredibly measured in the Cicumstances, and brilliantly put across. I take my Hat off to him and all the others going through this HELL because of Governments Inactivity and lack of BALLS in tackleing this problem I have said for years the Badger is the most ridiculously over protected species, Which is being allowed to ruin peoples lives and businesses all because our government is spineless.
 
amandap said:
Ah, more farmer propaganda. :D Works for both 'sides', let's be fair.

There obviously has to be a cull. Can't say I like it but I have to lump it realistically. Killing is cheap and easy of course.
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You, my townie friend, are talking through your arse.
 
Also I think you will find there is no definitive proof that badgers even infect the cattle and it is not the other way around! I think they also need to look at how cows are managed. TB is spread through poor hygiene in crowded conditions, ie cows all kept in a shed are more likely to spread TB around. I believe we should trial immunisation before blithely culling a species just for monetary reasons!
 
AdorableAlice said:
You, my townie friend, are talking through your arse.
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Lol! I am a country woman, brought up and lived most of my life in very rural spots. :p However, you are entitled to your offensive opinion, just get your facts straight first. :eek:

Perhaps the cattle infect the badgers! rofl.
 
I dont think anyone is happy about the idea of having to do a half baked probably not very effective cull. Sadly this disease is at a stage where even a 25% ish reduction in spread is about the best that can be achieved, because of the cowardice of previous governments to deal with the problem when it was containable :-(((((

Personally instead of an area specific bureaucratic cull, I think badgers should be treated the same as foxes but on a disease assessment rather than a predating of livestock basis. So if the badgers in a set complex on a farm are mangy and diseased, the farmer can shoot them, leaving healthy badger sets alone. In other words, what used to happen pre ban.

What also must stop is the practice by some 'rescue' organisations of rearing badger cubs and then driving out big distances to release them, into areas which may have been BtB clear previously, with no thought as to what disease risk they are introducing.

DEFRA also need to start recording BtB cases for species not currently in the foodchain as they do for cattle. Currently they only record 1 for an outbreak per herd eg in alpacas, whereas each cow with it counts as 1. If you get situations like that in Sussex not too long ago where over 500 alpacas are slaughtered for BtB reasons, you really need to be recording that, esp as with the collapse of the pyramid alpaca selling market, they are now starting to be slaughtered and enter the food chain via licenced abbatoirs.
 
Lachlanandmarcus - rescue organisations must test badger cubs for TB before they are released. if the cubs have it they are PTS.
 
There is a lot of evidence that culling just results in spatial perturbation, where other animals of the culled species move in to take the place of those culled. Certainly this is exactly what has happened in Africa, where hyenas were culled extensively for the protection of livestock. I attended a lecture on a related subject recently. The speaker (Dr Dawn Scott) didn't go into great detail, but she did mention that similar work had been done with foxes and badgers and come to the same conclusion. If this is the case, then culling is just the governments way of keeping farmers off their backs. From my own experience, my FIL shoots foxes on his land regularly and surprise, surprise, there are always more to take their place.

I appreciate that vaccination might be less definitive than culling and certainly more expensive, but can't help wonder if it will be more effective in the long run, assuming that farming practices can't be reviewed practically (we'd all love the mooers gamboling freely across the meadows, but know that realistically that won't happen until society as a whole stops wasting so much food and wanting cheap burgers).
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Personally instead of an area specific bureaucratic cull, I think badgers should be treated the same as foxes but on a disease assessment rather than a predating of livestock basis. So if the badgers in a set complex on a farm are mangy and diseased, the farmer can shoot them, leaving healthy badger sets alone. In other words, what used to happen pre ban.
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totally agree with this, and so does the farmer who runs the farm where i livery.
 
I love badgers, sadly only see dead ones :(

I suppose you can say I am a farmers wife, not married but been together for over 20 years, happy birthday Hun btw, however, I can see both sides of the argument.

What saddens me is that it can be transferred both by, cows, badger, and airborn!!!!

So why not vaccinate? Cost? We vaccinate for everything else so why nit TB?
 
i have yet too watch the video but i have done quite a bit of reading into the proposed badger cull.
personally i dont think the cull is the way forward. there is evidence that culling possibly healthy badgers will lead to diseased badgers taking their place further spreading the disease.
regarding hygiene etc - there is advice and videos on the defra website advising farmers to increase the security of their feed stores and sheds to minimise badgers entering and urinating on food spreading the disease.
there is currently research being investigating an oral vaccine to prevent tb in badgers. this has worked effectively in nz with possums and for rabies in europe. unfortunately this is still atleast 5 years off.
the cost of an injectable vaccine does not warrant the potential financial benefits to the industry. it would need to be done annually an there is also no evidence regarding how long it is effective for in badgers.
there is a vaccine available for cattle - similar to our bcg but unfortunately it interferes with the result of the test so vaccinated cattle will be positive.
i think badger numbers need to be controlled but i dont think widespread culling will be effective. also there is evidence those on the edge of culling zone will actually increase the rate of tb.
 
mulledwhine said:
^^^^ how would you know you had vaccinated all the badgers?
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Culling is no guarantee of getting them all either but i'll bet if they could be vaccinated by dart guns then i'll bet there would be more willing helpers

Can vaccinated animals pass that on to their new born?
 
there is an injectable vaccine which is what wales are trialling.
pros - keeps public happy - not culling the badgers
also benefits the badgers

cons - cost - the badgers still need to be trapped and vaccinated
unlikely it passes onto young though not sure - in humans bcg isnt transmitted
no studies regarding how long vaccine is effective for - it is being guessed 1 yr (how long it is for cattle ) but no evidence


regarding on how do you know if you have vaccinated them all - relying on herd immunity. ie if you vaccinate however much the rest are unlikely to get it as chance of being in contact with an infected individual is reduced. however strong evidence it passes from cattle to badgers so unvaccinated badgers may become infected from cows - go to next farm and infect them!

also imp to remember there is only circumstantial evidence suggesting bovine tb can be transmitted between cattle and badgers no scientific evidence although it is proved they are susceptible to the same strain
 
shortstuff99 said:
Also I think you will find there is no definitive proof that badgers even infect the cattle and it is not the other way around! I think they also need to look at how cows are managed. TB is spread through poor hygiene in crowded conditions, ie cows all kept in a shed are more likely to spread TB around. I believe we should trial immunisation before blithely culling a species just for monetary reasons!
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Bullocks!
Explain - Low intensity beef/suckler herds?
Organic herds?
Dairy farms working (by law) within the 'Dairy Hygiene regulations' which they are inspected for.
Closed herds, no animals in only out to slaughter?

What is the answer? I don't know but when you see your prize winning low intensity suckler herd being loaded into a lorry as they are all reactors it is heartbreaking, yes there is compensation on a per head basis but not for the loss of earnings or the years of breeding of pedigree stock.
You cannot vaccinate cattle without losing the export market since they are technically 'infected' you cannot vaccinate an infected badger, so how is it going to be controlled?
Wales are trialling a vaccine so perhaps culls in hotspots should take place so a comparism can be done and perhaps a decision can then be made on the most effective management of this disease.
Not sure what we do about the infected deer, mink, dogs, cats, camelids etc.
 
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