Badger cull - for or against? Please Please watch

lannerch said:
Holly hocks if your trying to infer it is totally money related you are very wrong!
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I am afraid that most people who are brought up in the town and have no real links to the countryside will never understand. They won't watch Countryfile either, which is already preaching to the converted. They want research done, but only if it comes up with a nice clean solution.
 
patterdale said:
HH, pedigree cattle are often the result of generations of careful breeding and the hard work of our grandfathers.
There is a huge pride and importance in these animals and it is devastating to lose breeding stock like this.

High in both monetary and sentimental value.

Plus at the end of the day, a farm is a business and a livelihood. I don't think it's fair to be negative about the value if things, when we are trying to make a living, in one of the oldest and IMO best ways of the world.
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That's fine thank you for explaining things - first of all I just couldn't understand it, as I just had the image of a load of beef cattle in my mind, but your explanation has clarified things for me

Miss L Toe - I live in one of the most rural counties in England - in the middle of the country ;) and I DO watch Countryfile (if I am back from doing the horses in time! :)
 
HH, a farmer with a pedigree herd will have spent years improving bloodlines to get the most 'type'y' animal. They will source semen or bulls with the right characteristics or bloodlines. Some prefix's (bloodlines) will be generations old. So yes, you will get compensated for an animal but that will never compensate for the lost years of breeding or the future breeding potential of that animal and it's future progeny. Some farmers breed rare breed cattle which may have a small gene pool and losing any stock will further the breed to extinction.
Do you honestly think farmers would prefer to lose their stock over being tb free?
 
Hollyhocks when you watch countryfile do you miss Adams farm?
I have farmer friends too that feel and behave like Adam passionate about their stock how could any one believe they were just numbers and it's just money .
 
The TB testing is a bit of a joke as far as diagnosis is concerned.

Lots of cattle are being culled which may never develop TB, or may not even have it the test is so unreliable.
 
lannerch said:
Hollyhocks when you watch countryfile do you miss Adams farm?
I have farmer friends too that feel and behave like Adam passionate about their stock how could any one believe they were just numbers and it's just money .
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No of course I see it, although it's not my favourite part of the program (he's just not my cup of tea). It's ok, I understand now about the pedigree and rare breeds bit - I had only thought of the ordinary beef cattle prior to that, and I couldn't understand about how if a beef cow is being bred for meat anyway, and then gets slaughtered prematurely a farmer could be upset about it, but of course if it's a rare breed, then it's different - I agree they need to be preserved.
 
Holly Hocks said:
If farmers are breeding cows for meat, why are they upset when the cows have to be slaughtered prematurely? Same outcome. Is it money related, because I always thought they were compensated for TB cases?

I love all wildlife, but I don't know why badgers are protected above all other wildlife, especially if they are spreading disease.
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You obviously didn't watch the video
 
EAST KENT said:
So because of the EU we are not permitted to vaccinate our cattle;ok,but why not then evolve an oral vaccine ,as the polio vaccine was,so that it really would be easy enough to bait up and feed it to badger setts. Bung it on some peanuts and job done. Culling will just empty out an area for others,possibly infected ,to move in,surely much saner to vaccinate your own local badger population?
Killing infected anything really is archaic these days,when ring vaccination works so well.
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Because they are having extreme difficulty formulating an oral vaccination that won't be destroyed by the animals stomach acid and would be a complete waste of time.
 
HH we breed our lambs for the table, it doesn't mean we aren't upset when they die of a disease or have to be put down due to the risk of one.
It's hard to understand I know, but when you try your best to raise a healthy animal for any purpose, to lose it prematurely to something you can't help is beyond gutting.

And for us, it's nothing to do with the money, we don't need the money we just enjoy raising, keeping and producing good stock.
 
Holly Hocks said:
If farmers are breeding cows for meat, why are they upset when the cows have to be slaughtered prematurely? Same outcome. Is it money related, because I always thought they were compensated for TB cases?
.
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A farmer has to plan for the future, often years ahead, his investments include time, effort and money.
He works long hours for very little money [in this case] and then someone comes along and shoots his cattle, end of hopes and dreams, end of all his work, a big shock to the system. He obviously thought that the badgers were responsible for the disease, and was justifiably upset because he had been unable to prevent what he considered to be a preventable situation.
The cost of pedigree beef cattle is greater than that of commercial beef cattle, for example, they have to factor in costs of buying a new bull every two years, and there are registration costs and so on, just like with horses, the best cattle cost a lot more than the poorest.
If you look in to the long term effects of the Foot and Mouth outbreak of 2001, you will discover that many farmers had no heart to start up again, their whole lives were traumatically affected, even the townies were shocked to see burning pyres, thousands of cattle killed and burned.
A lot of farmers blame badgers for infecting their cattle and are frustrated that they are not allowed to take action to control them. If you remember, the video indicates that modern farming methods and mild winters have contributed to the increasing numbers of badgers, far more than at any other time. It does not take a genius to work out that they are contributing to the increase in cattle TB.
I am not a fluffy bunny, I understand that wildlife which has no natural predators have to be controlled, as in the case of Red Deer which would often starve if not culled.
 
Pale Rider said:
Well, Alice, I probably have a lot more experience of moving cattle about than you think. This is the cause of the TB epidemic, but, the livestock industry won't accept this as they fear the cost of liability.
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I apologise. Your previous comment advises us that you have seen infected cattle pushed through 3 or 4 auctions in as many weeks, you now tell us you are highly experienced at moving stock.

All that tells me is you are knowingly moving stock without the relevant paperwork. Well done mate, hope it paid well, and I hope such actions come back to bite you hard.
 
Pale Rider said:
Alice, you are a stupid woman.
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And your reason for that comment ?

Anger is the usual response from a person found doing something wrong.

You clearly stated you are an experienced stock mover and you clearly stated you have watched infected stock go through several markets. Doesn't read well does it.
 
I felt so sorry for the first farmer, he obviously loves his cattle. </3
I agree, something should be done, but it is a tricky situation, what with badgers being an endangered species and all. :/
I was thinking that maybe the badgers and deer can be moved in an isolated area until a vaccine is available, and perhaps only kill the infected ones, but I'm not too sure if that'd work.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Yes, well there are idiots everywhere.
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Your relative is no better. He disregards the LAW because he thinks it is unfair to HIM! It basically is the same as if a person is subject to a major theft whereby their life savings are stolen. Would it be right and correct that the victim then goes and commits an offence in order to 'make things right' in their mind - ie theft or even murder?!
 
You can sell stock from a farm under a restriction to another farm under restriction, many markets have a 'red' day for this purpose. It doesn't mean those cattle are infected, they can't be as it would be picked up in the Premovement testing where if positive they are ear tagged to ID them.
 
Maybe some effort needs to be put into finding a diagnosic test that picks up only picks up only infected animals and not those who are vaccinated or have some natural immunity
 
happyhacking:) said:
Maybe some effort needs to be put into finding a diagnosic test that picks up only picks up only infected animals and not those who are vaccinated or have some natural immunity
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The diagnostic exists, well preliminary studies were very promising anyway :) The kit is expensive though, and despite being super easy to carry out and even showing the time since exposure for infected animals the funding was shelved.

All it takes is a bit of blood sniffing :D
http://jcm.asm.org/content/43/4/1745.full.pdf+html
 
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posted early on and haven't read all the replys. as said previously i am not against a cull if it will work but from my own research i am not convinced it will be effective.
this article also indicates that the lack of sensitivity of the test to cattle with liver fluke may be why tb is still at such high levels. especially as it is in recent years that there has been much heightened restriction with the use of these drugs.
http://www.nature.com/news/bovine-tb-disguised-by-liver-fluke-1.10685
 
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