Badger Cull Postponed

Perhaps there is someone more knowledgeable than me out there ( I am sure there is as it would not be difficult).

I have a small farm for totally horse purposes. There is a massive badger population and this has grown hugely over the past 3 decades. I am left with huge holes in my fields which are dangerous to my horses - I have had one that I suspect fell into a badger hole and it was fatally injured at just 2 years old. By law I have to put up with that or move. The badgers have more rights than I do!

Badgers are protected from human intervention, except, we can run them over with great regularity and no one, not even the beloved Animal Rights, seem to have campaigned to stop road traffic to save the badgers.

No other animal appears to prey on badgers, even to the extent that nothing will touch a dead badger. The corpses lie untouched for weeks even flies and maggots are not interested and certainly not the local authority! There are currently 4 badgers corpses along the lanes within 1/2 mile and they have been there for weeks.

My land is private but I have to put up with Badger 'people' coming to check on the badger setts (which I have never touched or interfered with) thus trespassing on my land at all hours of the day and night. Why should my horses be frightened by people trespassing with torches at night?

Could someone please tell me, if unlike other species, badgers are never ever culled by human or animal, how long will it take for badgers to take over the world?

As for the number of culled cattle - well they do not matter of course.

As for the cancellation of the cull - well, yet again, illegal thuggery wins.
 
Trouble is cull's have not been done properly in the past. For example, if you were to take cornwall, it is effectively cut off from Devon by the Tamar. If you culled all the badgers in Cornwall and effectively stopped the travel of Badgers across the tamar you would have a 'proper' cull that would produce results one way or another. This obviously isn't going to happen, if you shoot badgers you will not possibly cull the whole sett allowing movement, same with trapping. Gassing would probably be the most effective with monitering setts for movement afterwards. You would still have the infection within deer whose population has doubled within the last 10 yrs. There is a herd of red deer locally that was released from captivity, they have increased in numbers to about 25 now and virtually every farm around where they roam has now had reactors. We have Roe deer on our farm now, unheard of in my lifetime, and i'm no spring chicken.
Unless the public want to start eating the wildlife perhaps they should think about who does feed them and who has some of the highest welfare standards in Europe before they shout down the farmers.
 
kiteman0 said:
Thats ok, we'll just keep on culling the cattle then.


Well said. After seeing a hell of a lot of cows going up a ramp every test day I know how I feel about the cull being postponed
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Couldn't agree more. When will the fluffy bunnies acknowledge that there are far too many of the bloody things and most of them should be shot. They have no natural predators so something needs to be done. I've lost count of how many livestock, dogs and machinery have been lost which is all due to them. Why else do we not have any hedgehogs around here (and where badgers are) oh yes, it's because the bloody badgers kill them. This country is a joke sometimes.
 
sporthorse I sympathise with you and can only suggest you fence off the setts if possible

My friend was initially delighted to photograph a badger on her yard
THEN
It forced its way into her poultry house (heavy metal door chained and concrete blocks outside) killed ducks, savaged her guard geese and on a separate occasion murdered her childrens pet rabbits.
She was refused permission to shoot it
She moved house!

Anyone interested in numbers of cattle destroyed for positive tests to BTb.....
In 2011 43,915
This CANNOT go on

http://www.oie.int/wahis_2/public/w...&country=GBR&this_country_code=GBR&detailed=1
 
We have had TB in our closed beef herd this summer, one of our best cows was taken, post mortem results were negative, heartbreaking.

Badgers need to be culled, they are sick with TB. Shooting a few now and then is futile, the sett disperses and TB spreads further. I blame all the wildlife programmes on tv, badgers are shown as cute & cuddly animals and the government is afraid of the outcry from a nation of badger-huggers.
 
I previously worked on a farm in Kent. The boss pointed out a steep trail that ran from the copse at the top of the field to the water trough and asked me what I thought had made it. I guessed at the sheep; but he told me it was too steep a gradient for the sheep to traverse and informed me it was badgers coming down for a drink. He never kept any of his cattle in that field and remained TB free.

The animal rights activists who are so determined to stop the badger cull cannot seem to see the wider picture. Not only do we have thousands of head of cattle being slaughtered annually at a cost of millions to the taxpayer, but we have sick badgers dying in excruciating pain and kicked out of their setts; not to mention the welfare aspects that are caused by placing TB infected herds into restrictions.

On the same farm in Kent they took on dairy followers to rear them on until they were old enough to return to the dairy farm as heifers to get up the duff. The farm that supplied the calves was placed on movement restrictions and no stock could leave the holding. They had no staff or facilities to look after the calves and after restrictions were lifted and the calves allowed to move to our holding they were poor specimens who all had to be returned to bottle feeding despite having been supposedly weaned.

I've just returned from Exmoor where the topic of the cull came up. One farmer I was speaking to turned to me and with real sadness and bitterness in his voice remarked that ' I wish those who want to stop the badger cull would come and shoot my cows; they might feel differently then'.
 
My OH’s farm is a closed beef suckler herd. However all cattle that leave the farm are pre movement tested. Also they were up until last summer being tested every month. Just think 500 head of cattle push through the system every month all of those in calf cows etc and the stress caused. Now the three neighbouring farms have all gone down with tb within a few weeks of each other. No contact is made by the cattle other than by a railway line which has a diseased badger set (It has been confirmed by an conservation and badger expert). My OH lost 34 of his in calf pedigree Galloway cows and his pedigree Bull.
 
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wildoat said:
Alec,

with respect I never said I was against the cull.

Tony
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My post wasn't actually aimed at you, it was a general observation for those who rejoice in the postponement. That was my intention anyway, and I apologise if it came over differently.

combat_claire said:
I previously worked on a farm in Kent. The boss pointed out a steep trail that ran from the copse at the top of the field to the water trough and asked me what I thought had made it. I guessed at the sheep; but he told me it was too steep a gradient for the sheep to traverse and informed me it was badgers coming down for a drink. He never kept any of his cattle in that field and remained TB free.

The animal rights activists who are so determined to stop the badger cull cannot seem to see the wider picture. Not only do we have thousands of head of cattle being slaughtered annually at a cost of millions to the taxpayer, but we have sick badgers dying in excruciating pain and kicked out of their setts; not to mention the welfare aspects that are caused by placing TB infected herds into restrictions.

On the same farm in Kent they took on dairy followers to rear them on until they were old enough to return to the dairy farm as heifers to get up the duff. The farm that supplied the calves was placed on movement restrictions and no stock could leave the holding. They had no staff or facilities to look after the calves and after restrictions were lifted and the calves allowed to move to our holding they were poor specimens who all had to be returned to bottle feeding despite having been supposedly weaned.

I've just returned from Exmoor where the topic of the cull came up. One farmer I was speaking to turned to me and with real sadness and bitterness in his voice remarked that ' I wish those who want to stop the badger cull would come and shoot my cows; they might feel differently then'.
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Such an excellent post, and specifically your quote from the West Country farmer.

What I fail to understand, is why those who are opposed to the cull steadfastly refuse to accept that those of us who farm, specifically those who keep cattle in the troubled areas, REALLY DON'T WANT ANNIHILATION OF BADGERS. THEY WANT THE NUMBERS REDUCED TO WITHIN MANAGEABLE NUMBERS. That's all it is, honestly.

By a reduction in numbers, the UK badger population will return to a state of health, and when the balance is restored, the occasional sighting of a badger at last light will be welcomed, by all.

I'll admit that the often ridiculous claims made by the likes of Brian May, a man who has probably poured a great deal of money into the campaign, are irksome in the extreme, when they are offered in the face of the facts that decent country people, those who provide us with milk and meat, are being vilified for asking for a more balanced approach to wildlife management, then I find my pulse rate rising.

Again, C_C, an excellent post.

Alec.
 
Bad news for the cattle industry in the UK.

If you want to see non bias research read the Irish research findings...Where no government or Animal rights groups interfered and biased the studies and results.
This is one of the older documents but it gives an idea of the data found

http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/br0405_2_bovinetuberculosis.pdf

Our TB levels have been steadily dropping and staying static in comparison to the Uk's where the levels steadily rises....
http://www.bovinetb.info/ireland.php

We do not do random culls....we do cull badgers under special license where tb outbreaks show a pattern that suggests they are a source of infection. The culls are not the main basis of the controls and are carefully regulated to see are they warranted. Cattle movements are still a source of new Tb outbreaks in-spite of all the pre movement testing done..no one is trying to claim its just badgers.... but the issue is multi dynamic and needs a multi-dynamic solution approach

UCD dublin is also one of the leading areas of research into the vaccine for badgers and that area is still being actively pursed and new research into more relaible tests to detect tb in cattle is also on the go.

Controlled warranted culls could do a lot of good in the UK. Its a pity that some people prefer badgers to cattle.
 
The reason the cull has been postponed was that research found DOUBLE the number of estimated badgers, hence it was going to be impossible to shoot the required numbers in the time available.

Remember people, that back in the 1970s TB in cattle had virtually been eliminated, that is the UK was just about disease free. This was done by gassing every badger sett around if a routine cattle test showed TB in a herd. Therefore not only did the cow with TB get slaughtered but any badger that might have been carrying it to other herds were slaughtered as well. There was no shortage of badgers.

There were just a few cases occuring in Gloucestershire when the gassing was stopped and badgers were made a protected species. I never heard of TB in cattle 30 years ago, then a neighbouring farmer started to get outbreaks, which meant that we had to be tested as well, always negative. The neighbour had a dairy herd and used to buy in heifers, calve them and then sell them on, so he was getting them from different parts of the country.

Time was when the badger groups denied that badgers could give TB to cattle, but many years ago the vets were saying that was rubbish.

Everyone goes on about poor badgers, mustn't shoot them when pregnant, no one cares about the cows that are pregnant.

I have my doubts about shooting badgers, how can they make enough difference to the population. Badger setts should be gassed until TB in cattle has gone. We know that badgers are not an endangered species, they can carry on breeding in the New Forest, Kent, etc. etc. it is in the West Country and creeping ever northwards towards Cheshire that they need getting rid.
 
Just a PS - if the badgers were giving a disease to horses, which meant that had to be PTS, I bet no one would be so keen on badgers then.
 
The postponement of the cull is bad news, although I do understand the reasoning given... maybe that's naive of me, but I want to believe that it will actually happen next year.
To those who say there must be a better way... That might be so, but unless you can actually come up with a better solution, a controlled cull that will bring the badger population down to manageable numbers id definitely worth a go.

We only keep few cattle nowadays, I didn't handle the stress of bTB well and we decided to leave beef farming behind. :o
 
Badgers are rife in my area! And to be honest the cull should be asap and for as long as it needs to be effective.
Anybody who doesnt believe in the cull needs their head testing! Quite frankly I cant believe how many of us on here who own livestock (horses) are actually anti the countryside, farmers, farming and animals to be honest...
 
I was discussing how widespread TB is in the area my OH farms. The senior vet in the very large practice stated that there was not a single farm on their books that were not under TB restrictions in the last 5 years.
 
Aleka81 said:
Badgers are rife in my area! And to be honest the cull should be asap and for as long as it needs to be effective.
Anybody who doesnt believe in the cull needs their head testing! Quite frankly I cant believe how many of us on here who own livestock (horses) are actually anti the countryside, farmers, farming and animals to be honest...
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Yes ditto some of the coments on here are just bonkers !!! why is it???? I can understand it from some dopey bint in the suburbs who watches all the morkish sentimetal dross on the idiots lantern but someone that has horses and contact with the rural world !!!!
 
I find the kill everything attitude incredibly outdated.Put this in another context, a dog in the village gets Parvo,so a two mile ring fenced area has every canine slaughtered within it,and no movement outside of that area also.The answer of course is to ring fence by vaccination!

It took God knows how many years for our government to admit that Rabies vaccine actually works,so befuddled are their minds. If it is to be believed there actually is no objection from the bloody EU against our cattle being vaccinated,so why the delay? Vaccine can be given to a tb tested cow in calf,that calf is then protected,and so on ,until the whole herd is protected,exactly as good dog breeders do here already with canines.

My believe is that the Defra bodies should fund this,and maybe encourage farmers financially to do so,rather than accept compensation for killing the beasts.It all seems so archaic to me,as being a proper scientifically informed dog breeder the route to success is not rocket science.

Maybe for their own welfare badgers do need culling when scientifically proven to have tb in that particular sett,the population levels have risen ,and in any animal this predisposes to disease (factory farmers please note)But they do not need wholesale slaughter.Just a tad of common sense and science is the logical answer.
And for those stupid people who will cry out that their dogs are never vaccinated and are fine,well that my dears is because the responsible amongst us also protect yours by not allowing endemic disease.
Mammals of any type can be managed in this the same as any other.
.Humans by the way can/are vaccinated against tb.
 
EAST KENT said:
until the whole herd is protected,exactly as good dog breeders do here already with canines.
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The major trouble with this solution being that we do no export dogs with a view to them being consumed by humans. This was printed in the Western Morning News.

"The differentiation test, and TB vaccine for use in cattle, would have to be validated and EU law changed before beef from vaccinated cattle was available for consumption in Europe. In excess of £34 million has already been spent on research, and a further £15 million is earmarked for development of vaccines for cattle and badgers over the next four years. "
 
How would farmers react if instead of a bounty being offered for badgers, the money was put towards improving fencing and building security on farms that are affected by badger entry?
 
Orangehorse said:
. it is in the West Country and creeping ever northwards towards Cheshire that they need getting rid.
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Too late, they have been rife here for the last 40 years; we are over run with the blasted things.
My FIL used to move litters by request from farmers but even that option was not enough; move a litter and another family move in within weeks. There is some land here that is devastated by the things, so much that they can't use machinery in those fields for fear of repeat 'sinkings' and I know of several cattle that have been lost due to the land suddenly caving in underneath them and they have been smothered. An entrance to a sett can be a hundred yards or more away from the furthest tunnel; not funny when you only have small fields.
 
soloequestrian said:
Well yes, but presumably that is why badger-proof fencing is expensive.... just because I'm pro-badger doesn't mean I'm stupid.
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There is no badger proof fencing that can stop a badger going over a boundary because their tunnels are far too deep; it's not like you can put up a wall and say all safe now because they just burrow underneath and they're not shallow burrows either, some can be a dozen foot or more deep.
 
For those who think that fencing badgers "In" or "Out", are options, perhaps I could point out to you that up until July2010, I was a livestock fencing contractor, and can speak with a little experience.

Fencing badgers "In" isn't an option, as they will either find a way out, or starve to death. Fencing them out isn't an option either, because of the prohibitive costs. If we assume that a 10 acre field would have a perimeter of at least 1000 metres then at the barest minimum of £20 per metre, for purpose made badger fencing to be supplied and erected, and beside that we would need to add specialist manufactured gates, and concrete bases to prevent badgers from digging, then each 10 acre field would cost in the region of £23-25k, and then having spent that money, the little tinkers would still find a way through. That, or they'd stand at the perimeter fence, and as BTb is passed on through nasal exhalations, the spores which are so damaging would still be passed on. ;)

Those who keep cattle, in the main, have done everything within their power to protect themselves and their livestock, and they have, to a man, come down on the side of a cull, and a major one, at that. There are no other practical or realistic options.

I wonder where the Original Poster, Amymay is, and what she feels now. I wonder if she now sees that there are those, who whilst opposing her view, may well have made valid points.

Alec.
 
The posts about badger setts being dangerous are surely far removed from the argument over the cull. The scientific evidence is that the cull is likely to do little to reduce TB in cattle and might actually increase it. If people have setts on their land that is making the land impossible to use, the argument to remove that sett and then make it difficult for badgers to return is easily supported. That has nothing to do with TB transmission.
My question about fencing is aimed at situations where badgers visit farms that have cattle. At the moment, there is no financial incentive to try to reduce this contact without killing either animal. If money was available for fencing initiatives, and possibly even help with building badger highways that keep them seperate from cattle, would that be welcomed? At least then the money would be being put to a productive use that was unlikely to worsen the TB situation (and would have much more chance of improving it) OR create huge negative publicity for farmers.
An additional option I have seen discussed is to stop the current testing system, which has about a 20% false result rate anyway. TB transmission from cattle via milk to the general public is, I think, almost impossible, and transmission rates to farmers is miniscule. Cattle could be tested only at slaughter and removed from the food chain if positive, or they could be tested before export. The money saved on reduced testing and compensation could be used for further strategies to reduce contact of cattle and wildlife - it's not just badgers that carry TB is it?
 
Sorry, got it wrong. It took 9 years to get the 16% drop in bovine tb from the cull research. And fleeing badgers carried it to neighbouring farms.

Apparently our lovely government has cancelled 4 out of 5 vaccine trials - now I've heard it said that farmers don't just vote for the Tory party, they are the Tory party. Hardly a non influential minority, which can be seen by the fact that this valueless cull nearly went ahead to appease them by doing something even if it wouldn't work.
 
Alec Swan said:
Those who keep cattle, have, to a man, come down on the side of a cull, and a major one, at that. There are no other practical or realistic options.
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No, they haven't. I've seen plenty of responses from farmers who are worried about the cull because they do believe the scientific evidence that says it may worsen TB. People don't want to kill 'their' healthy badgers.
 
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