Badminton - Friday dressage

Erratic judging to say the least, but got to love Pammy for speaking the truth.
Judges are only human at the end of the day, but at the biggest event in the world it's a little concerning the variation in movements like the changes where the position in the arena of the judge is less influential
 
pimping out peter for judges training ;).

It was intersting to hear how many judges are qualified to judge 4* and how many regularly do.
 
I have a theory. I know nothing about judging so forgive me if this is rubbish. In pure dressage, do judges sit in a row, all looking at the same things from the same angle. It is the only reason I can see for such extreme difference in the marks, that things look better or worse depending on your angle of vision and Im assuming the judges today were sitting by the letter markers so all had different views. Even so, some of the variations were extreme to say the least. It would be interesting to see the tests played back from different camera angles.
 
No, same set up for both :).

There are some things that the different positions will see differently usually regarding straightness etc, but whether a change is clean or late should be visible from all three, hence the comments!

She was applauded for her rein back scores though ;) she knows about them :D.
 
thank you Ester. It really needs looking at then doesnt it, you've got to feel for the competitors. Peter explained it well I thought, on a scale of 1 to 10 from awful to excellent. Surely the technical correctness of each movement is not subjective, I dont ride anywhere near well enough to perform at this level but tbh, once Id watched a few tests my scores were not that far away from the 2 Ps, even I could see where a change was correct or late and therefore how far away from awful or excellent it was. I wonder if the judges were looking for different things, although again, one would assume, they are briefed beforehand and should all be looking for the same thing. Puzzling!
 
Despite the erratic judging....why are the Brits so poor at dressage, completely outclassed by the rest of the world. Let's hope Chris Bartle can make some big improvements because we are not competitive and are now relying on other people's mistakes.
 
From what I've seen this competition, if something goes wrong for a Brit they seem to go slightly to pieces, and the rest of the test, or a good part of it, suffers and isn't as good as a result. Whereas the Germans and French seem to be calmer and hold their nerve more. (I actually think Ollie holds his nerve, but these two horses he had there are not easy or experienced horses). I don't know why, but our competiveness seems to have been slowly on the slide since the 2012 Olympics. It's happened before - I vaguely remember it happening around the Barcelona Olympics and it came back.
 
I'm not sure it is standard that we are bad at dressage? Certainly been well up there from what I can remember previous years. I don't think we quite have the experienced horse power there that we have had in recent years but they all have to come through at some point. I think the cycle is as much changing horse power, particularly if we are talking people bringing on their own like tina rather than having someone else do the production and then taking them on.
 
We haven't had a lot of strength in depth at 4* level for a while now - lots of options at 2 & 3* level who'll hopefully be up to scratch in a couple of years but like Ester says, it's a cycle and we're at the dip part at the moment. Chris Bartle has come in at a good time IMO. If you look at the list of Brits competing, I don't think any would have been tipped to do an amazing test. A few have done worse than expected but there weren't a lot of world-beaters among our combinations and that's what it takes to win Badminton unless it's a year of terrible weather!

Mid-high 40s isn't really good enough for the first phase anymore at individual level - 46.2 is 25th place! Can get away with it a bit in team comps where there's more potential for a whoopsie and a solid score will be useful.
 
The trouble is, we're promoting 3* so much in this country now - the ERM focuses on two day events at three star and has more money in prizes, for example.

In my opinion a couple of those horses do have reasonable 4* experience and talent - Annie Clover and Arctic Soul for example and Tina's horses are well produced and capable. And we've needed to have new horses coming up for six years. Plus there seem to be a lot of other nations with young, inexperienced horses that do well, even with inexperienced riders. There's something not quite right with how we're doing things at the moment, and even though it does go in cycles, it doesn't need to, especially with the money and training put in since our Olympic wins. I know is very tough at the top, and I couldn't do it, but I do think we've rested on our laurels and gone off the boil a bit. I hope Chris Bartle can shake things up a bit or we're going to get left behind for a long time. Anyway, let's see what Xc brings, it may change results around.
 
Honey08 said:
The trouble is, we're promoting 3* so much in this country now - the ERM focuses on two day events at three star and has more money in prizes, for example.

In my opinion a couple of those horses do have reasonable 4* experience and talent - Annie Clover and Arctic Soul for example and Tina's horses are well produced and capable. And we've needed to have new horses coming up for six years. Plus there seem to be a lot of other nations with young, inexperienced horses that do well, even with inexperienced riders. There's something not quite right with how we're doing things at the moment, and even though it does go in cycles, it doesn't need to, especially with the money and training put in since our Olympic wins. I know is very tough at the top, and I couldn't do it, but I do think we've rested on our laurels and gone off the boil a bit. I hope Chris Bartle can shake things up a bit or we're going to get left behind for a long time. Anyway, let's see what Xc brings, it may change results around.
Click to expand...

I agree Honey08. As you say things don't need to go in cycles and it doesn't seem to effect the other countries in the same way. As another poster pointed out we don't seem to be as adaptable as we used to be. If something goes wrong, everything goes wrong like in the Olympics. We don't seem o be able to push through it.
 
Experience and talent as an eventer, it isn't a dressage competition, that is rather the whole point no? I'm actually a little confused by the obsession over the dressage results?

One of Tina's is only 10 so it might be well produced and capable but unlikely to be at peak yet.

And as I said I must be watching something different regarding 'brits so poor at dressage' I think this year is pretty unusual.

last year 2,4,6=,6=,8
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/dressage-results-2016/
2015
2nd, 3rd, 11, 13
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/dressage-results-2015/
3rd, 7th, 11,12,13
 
kamili said:
Anne-Mette Binder is at M if I remember correctly.
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Anne-Mette was at B

AnShanDan said:
According to the FEI Schedule they are:

Ground Jury CCI4* Ground Jury
President 1004897 Mrs. Sue Baxter GBR 3*/4*
Ground Jury
Member 10051258 Mrs. Anne-Mette Binder DEN 3*/4*
Ground Jury
Member 10052047 Mrs. Christina Klingspor SWE 3*/4*
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Sue Baxter was replaced by German judge Martin Plewa at C
Anne-Mette at B
Christina at M
 
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