Badminton XC - feeling slightly underwhelmed

Gamebird

Gamebird

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Looking back on last week I'm feeling slightly underwhelmed with the XC (how is it that you can be underwhelmed or overwhelmed but never just 'whelmed'???). I can't quite put my finger on it but for me there was something missing
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I'm not sure whether it's all looking a bit too manicured these days, whether the fences themselves look smaller and easier (though I know they're not) or whether the riding is a bit more polished. I'm not sure how much all the oceans of flowers, shrubbery and carved animals add to anything other than the budget. Why does it need to look so artificially pretty when it's a test of bravery and skill? I can't think of a single other sport that dresses its competitions up in the same way.

I think perhaps that the camera angles didn't help. I've seen pictures of the Hexagon Hedges from pretty much every angle. I thought when they introduced one last year that it would be virtually unjumpable, yet the camera poition this year took away from the spectacle of the fence. You could only really see the ditches if you knew they were there and the fence didn't really look like much more than a skinny brush.

The Lake was mildly disappointing too. It was definitely lacking a bit of 'fear factor'. The only mistakes came from those who underrode the fence in the water or overrode the 2 strides to the step out - and most of them got away with untidy jumping.

The same with the flower-pot thingys - they only got my respect because I had read previously how technical they were. They really didn't look like much on TV, though I was disappointed with how they jumped and how few horses actually jumped them cleanly.

Maybe it's the lack of the old-time personalities? I'm definitely missing the colour that was brought to proceedings by Scotty, Lucinda, Ginny, Toddy et al. Maybe it's that the event has lost some of it's mystique now that I know many of the riders to speak to and see them competing week in, week out?? They are no longer Gods but ordinary people who hog the warm-up fences and chat with you on the way back from the XC like everyone else.

I'm not sure whether anyone can help with the answer but somehow it didn't quite work for me. Obviously I have enormous respect for everyone who completed (or even competed) but from a purely sedentary armchair-spectator's point of view it lacked some of the spectacle of previous years.

Maybe I'm a Burghley girl?
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I am a Burghley girl too. I have never been to Badders as its a bit far from me but yes, it was missing something this year. I was re-reading Murphy Himself's biography last night and the fences are so completely different to those of today, almost a different sport altogether.
I for one would love to see some real galloping, rider frightener courses that require brave, bold jumping! Bring back the mud
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I kinda know what youre saying, and when watching *Old Badminton* videos I can sit for hours watching them over and over.
Last week did become *boring* which I dont think I could ever say.
Hey I couldnt do what they do, not in a million years, maybe it is because riders have improved. Horses go to Badminton with mileage under their belts. Reading an artical in H&H last week, one horse went to badminton in the 50's with only 5 runs and that was a Novice
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today it wouldnt be allowed. Im not saying hell bring out horses with little to no experience, but now horses are so experience theyre a bit robotic
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although, one slip like Toytown and hes out, a world and european champ.

Gone are the days you could have a fall and then get straight back on again. I remember watching riders coming off in the water getting back on, slipping and sliding around in the saddle but coping.

The water was uninspiring, remembering those big white rails they had years ago bounce to a curve jump up and out over a boat.

The big scary ski jump, and normandy bank.... where has luckington lane crossing gone? those big hedges?

Im bored of these acuracy tests ie skinny after skinny, bring back those big rider scary fences...funny back then, if a rider/horse did fall there didnt seem to be the injuries either?

I have always prefered Badminton over Burghley, but I kinda see what you means. I went to the 1997 Euros and OMG what a course!
Maybe CMF would be a better course builder for Badminton? just a thought.
 
I feel they are missing the Badminton Jumps! The Vicarge V, the Luckington Lane Cross. The Normandy Bank. These jumps made badminton and now they have gone its not the same.
 
I completely understand what you're saying. In the past week I have watched the Pippa Funnell Grand Slam DVD which was in 2003 (how sad, but I love it!) and you can certainly see how things have changed. Due to safety perhaps, but fences I think are much more technical - skinnes, dog legs, related distances etc rather than 'look at that ditch!' Dont get me wrong, they are still up to height and I absolutely admire each and every rider and their horse that has the ability and guts to complete Badminton but I think that its all getting about money. The penny has finally dropped that its a fantastic viewing sport and to make it more appealing it now gets 'dressed up' to suit a wider range of viewer!
 
I took my Mum for a treat. We have been to Bramham loads but never a four star event.

We both came away saying that we had had a lovely time but would not go back. We both felt that Bramham was a better weekend away with a fraction of the craowd and their dogs to cope with.

Interestingly we came away and looked in the rule book. The difference in height between a CCI* and a CCI**** is just 10cm. The real difference is in the technicality and the length of track.

But, in short, we were also underwhelmed!
 
My dad said much the same thing and he's not even horsey, he's just an armchair expert after years of watching and listening to me (poor thing
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). He said: "it didn't look as difficult as when you did it, darling" (bless him, he knows how to keep me happy
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) but I'm quite sure that reflects on how high the standard is now or that I made it look difficult when I ineptly bumbled round
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. He noted the quarry and the water as looking much easier than in the past.

I think it might be the camera angles too, particularly at the Hexagon Hedge skinnies as that ditch is mahoosive. We should have asked ElleJS to get some photos of everything close up, that would've scared the pants off us critics. I agree about the personalities too; in the old days Ian Stark, Karen Dixon et al were so well known and so prolific that they were like gods to me. I went xc before Scotty on The Moose so was guaranteed the odd bit of air time, that delighted my parents (or not my mum, as she couldn't watch
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) - maybe some of the horses were bigger personalities then too? Whatever, maybe Burghley will leave you feeling more satisfied Gamebird?
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I heard an interview with the showjumping course designer (can't remember his name!!) he was saying that the mentality has changed so that a 3 day event is now a test of endurance, aptitude and skill- hence the move away from cross country courses that are technically on the verge of being too big or technical for competitors to physically get around. The course designer also said it is more exciting for the spectators if they have more people who "could" win going into the third day- and the more people going clear in the showjumping, the more the technical accuracy against the clock becomes important.
...on top of all that of course the animal cruelty agencies and the media go ape if anyone gets hurt so their is pressure to keep it all very pc
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The thing i've noticed is that people seem more happy to just 'have a go'. They'd interview some of the riders, and they'd be saying that the horse hasn't got much experience at advanced level and i don't really know him very well etc etc, but they're still happy enough to try them around Badminton. Now maybe i'm just seeing things through rose tinted glasses, but 10 years ago it seemed like the people who rode there rode top horses who everyone in the horsey world had heard of, and who'd got considerable success.

I might be imagining things?
 
Watching the 60th Anniversary Video really made me long for the good old days - full of rider frighteners, big yawning ditches and terrors that had to be tackled with enough oomph that if you or the horse fell, you got pinged out of the saddle far enough and were thus safer from the lethal rotational fall than in today's events.

Interestingly, listening to the commentary, they said that the increase in combination fences came about because it showed more jumps in the TV footage and made it more appealing to the mass market. Now, I know I'd be the first to complain if the bbc didn't broadcast it.

Totally agree about the characters though. There are brilliant riders around and they seem to have handfuls of fantastic horses (that all look the same) but there doesn't seem to be any horse or jockey that particularly stands out as being awe-inspiring. On the video above, I adored watching Toddy riding without one stirrup, his balance and leg position was incredible.

Perhaps it's just that we're all about the same age and can't help but reminisce about our childhood idols?
 
I really enjoyed being there and watching this year as there wasnt that horrid feeling where you're just waiting for the next horse to fall.
It was the bounce into the lake 5? years ago where we just sat there waiting as you knew that every 1 in 5 or so competitors were likely to have a messy jump and possibly fall. Thats not what the sport is about.

As Mark Todd said famously, when you build a very big, difficult course all that happens is that the best horses and riders still win and the rest have a disaster.
 
I think perhaps the coverage was more at fault than the actual course design. For instance I know that the Hexagon Hedges are enormous and the ditch is a big gaping hole, but I wouldn't have known just from the TV pictures. The same with the ditch/skinny hedge just before.

I thought that the Alterian Hillside worked quite well for me - two big, unadorned fences where you could easily see the potential pitfalls and where mistakes were punished, but by run-outs not falls (barring poor Penny).

Or perhaps it was that a good percentage of the field, including the winner, are younger than me
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so somehow thye have become riders to respect and admire rather than out-and-out idols?
 
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I think perhaps the coverage was more at fault than the actual course design. For instance I know that the Hexagon Hedges are enormous and the ditch is a big gaping hole, but I wouldn't have known just from the TV pictures. The same with the ditch/skinny hedge just before.


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The BBC cameras get quite a lot of stick as it is as it's near impossible to show much without distracting the horses and blocking the crowd's view. Especially when they jump backwards and forwards over the vicarage ditch yet the camera can only be on one side
 
I thought camera work was very poor, as i was lucky enough to walk course 'properly' and when i watched it on red button i was shocked it really didn't show how big and difficult the lines through the combination fences were.
Then on monday i rode around with my horse and got up close and personnel, which again impressed on me how bloody HUGE these jumps were!!!
i blame camera work, i swas urprisesd they didn't use any high wire camera work that would have shown how bloody huge and horrible the vicarage ditches were, cos i can promise YOU they were horrible!!

see the evidence
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4374088/an/0/page/3#4374088
 
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The BBC cameras get quite a lot of stick as it is as it's near impossible to show much without distracting the horses and blocking the crowd's view. Especially when they jump backwards and forwards over the vicarage ditch yet the camera can only be on one side

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Now wouldn't it be an idea for them to bury a camera or two in the fences, similar as they do for the National?

Have loved all the comments and reminiscing; I'm another to say bring back Luckington Lane, Tom Smith's Walls and all that but I think the loss of those might have as much to do with farming policy and the available acreage of the park as anything else. They were real courses then and for years they have been getting far too technical and trappy.
This year's, I liked, it was far more flowing and kinder on the horses so pleasanter to watch (for me anyway); the only one I thought was mean, was The Quarry so near to home, the big drop and the last turn were a bit unfair for a tired horse (of which, I'm glad to say, were few and far between) Some fences are becoming 'samey' like The Sunken Road and Huntsman's Close but they are still causing the problems for some so who are we to say take them out and give us something different?

Wouldn't it be great to see if present day horses and riders could go back to jump the old courses and see how they managed, then we might know if the rose tinted glasses are right or not? I'm pretty sure the old horses and riders might struggle a bit with the modern technicalities of courses today but they'd put up a fine job of trying and reminding us (as if we need it) how good they were.
 
I thought it was disappointing too. The Lake, traditionally one of the most difficult fences on the course, was imho very soft - I have NEVER seen a Lake complex where a horse and rider could slither badly over every single element and get away with it. don't get me wrong, i didn't want to see any falls, but there were a couple of stops at the fence in water (which imho should have been a proper skinny to raise the difficulty) and that was it.
I had this conversation with a mate last week (who, like me, has dreamt of riding at Badders since she started eventing) - where was the Vicarage Vee? Luckington Lane crossings? so many of the old fences that were significant every single year, and which even the best riders really respected (and dreaded getting wrong).
i know it wasn't small this year, but it was definitely less impressive than i've seen before.
roll on Burghley...
 
Wasn't Hugh Thomas criticised a couple of years ago for it being too 'samey' and not providing any new challenges?
It seems that we demand change and then whinge when it happens.
I agree it would be nice to see some of the old feature fences back in from time to time but we have still got the quarry, huntsmans, keepers brush, pinin bank and various ditch crossings with similar questions to before.
 
I agree with what you are saying to an extent but...... I think the reason every thing looked so perfect & manicured was due to the perfect going & conditions. The ground was good to firm everywhere, the weather bright & dry & not too hot or cold. It was absolutely perfect jumping conditions & therefore made everything look so much easier. Had it been wet & boggy the exact same fences would have looked very different.

I agree that the TV didnt really do the jumps justice & the general standard being pretty good made them look even easier. I actually think the BBC did well to show off what the fences were like as best they could. But things never look the same on TV, that is why is so good to actually 'go' to events. Baring in mind the extensive coverage those of you at home with interactive probably saw alot more than I did out on the course. But I could see the angles & lines that TV doesnt show.

The Hexagon hedges were challenging by anybodies book, for example when Little Tiger ran out at the first one she actually jumped a ditch about 6 foot wide to the left of the jump but it just looked like a little 'pop'.

Lets just praise the general high standard
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i dont care how good peoples riding has got, or anyof the other B/S reasons. this is supposed to be the worlds greatest three day event. i am afraid to say that when there are more stops and runouts at the show jumping class i was watching on the same day (5* so equivalent level) you have to ask what the hell is happening.
People do not pay enormous amounts of money to go to badminton and watch everyone go clear. That is not a spectator sport. where as no-one wants serious accidents, this sanitised version is so dull, i for one am bored beyong belief. yes people can always have an unlucky stumble but on the whole the course proved of o difficully what so ever to most and the show jumping had more influence on the scores. but even that did not have as much as the dressage.
a four star course can be up to 12 and a half minutes long, that one was originally measures at 11.15 then they decided the time was a bit tight and put more on.
the thing is this. many have said they hate the waitn for the next horse to fall thing is horrid but it is only since people started dying that has crept in. before watching people fall off was part of the experience because generally both horse and rider walked away.
I am so disapointed with the way the sport is going, i am not going at all right now. And it must be bad if here i am with a free day, ok weather and Aston not too far away and I have prefered to stay at home.
 
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i dont care how good peoples riding has got, or anyof the other B/S reasons. this is supposed to be the worlds greatest three day event. i am afraid to say that when there are more stops and runouts at the show jumping class i was watching on the same day (5* so equivalent level) you have to ask what the hell is happening.
People do not pay enormous amounts of money to go to badminton and watch everyone go clear. That is not a spectator sport. where as no-one wants serious accidents, this sanitised version is so dull, i for one am bored beyong belief. yes people can always have an unlucky stumble but on the whole the course proved of o difficully what so ever to most and the show jumping had more influence on the scores. but even that did not have as much as the dressage.
a four star course can be up to 12 and a half minutes long, that one was originally measures at 11.15 then they decided the time was a bit tight and put more on.
the thing is this. many have said they hate the waitn for the next horse to fall thing is horrid but it is only since people started dying that has crept in. before watching people fall off was part of the experience because generally both horse and rider walked away.
I am so disapointed with the way the sport is going, i am not going at all right now. And it must be bad if here i am with a free day, ok weather and Aston not too far away and I have prefered to stay at home.

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i totallyagree with all this.
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the trouble is that there have been so many awful falls that we now instantly think of a possible fatality when there is a fall.
there were always falls, riders flew off a lot, sometimes horses fell, but very rarely did they hit the deck in exactly the same place...

i must admit, after the first 5 had gone clear inside the time at Badders i was sitting there thinking "what the hell is going on..."
 
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We should have asked ElleJS to get some photos of everything close up, that would've scared the pants off us critics.

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We went on the Ian Stark coursewalk and got right up close - I really wish I had taken some pics now!

I actually think they should have his coursewalk as part of the TV coverage - it's very interesting, he is a great presenter and it would let people sat at home see exactly how huge some of those fences are.
 
Badminton was no way as big or scary than Burghley was, I was quite suprised when I walked it to be honest.....
 
thanks ElleJS, good to hear the opinion of someone who walked both properly as a rider.
I know how different things look on t.v., for instance the slope at Big Gatcombe after the old 2nd or 3rd fence looks fine on t.v. but in reality is amazingly steep, i had to hang off the side fence to be able to walk down it! And the cameras and angles shrink things dramatically.
How's Connie? recovering well I sincerely hope.
 
Yeah she is completely fine according to her last load of blood tests I just got.... she is made of steel that horse. Been given all clear to ride her again which is great as she is bored all ready and jumping out of her field and causing trouble...

I still think Burghley is on a different level in terms of height and toughness compared to Badminton, Badminton was tricky as in there were lots of places to have a silly 20 but there was nothing we hadn't met all reasy at 3* level. Burghley was something else... it really was tough and you knew it when you jumped the second fence! If Badders is 4* then Burghley is 5*! I was speaking to some pro's last week and they all said that they could get most good advanced horses round Badminton but there are horses that you just do not take around Burghley! I thought that was quite interesting...
 
ah, very interesting. especially as it used to be the other way round as far as i was told, most people did Burghley before they tackled Badminton because, despite the undulations, Burghley was seen as very slightly smaller, Badders was definitely viewed as the biggest 4* in the world for a very long time.
glad to hear you're back aboard Connie. Are you thinking of taking her to Luhmuhlen?
 
Its strange how it has had a big turn around, but maybe if the going wasn't so perfect it would have been a whole different result..... I have to admit I wanted it to rain and be muddy as at least I thought we could have pulled our selves up the score board!!!

Not sure... I think perhaps Under 25's Bramham, stock up on points for Badders take 2 next year!! Not sure then what to do then, think we'll decide when we get there!
 
I agree, I really enjoyed it, thought it was in great spirit, without that horrible heart in your mouth feeling we had a Burghley last year.
I do think some of the fences looked easier than they were, the Alterian Log piles from a different angle woudl have been terrifying, they looked quite easy the way they were filmed
I also enjoyed the racing finishes. Rightly or wrongly they were edge of the seat stuff and really competitive.
 
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