Baffled By My Mare - Napping/behaviour related!

[3Beasties]

This is going to be long sorry

Brief History - Have had my 5 year old mare for about 8 weeks. I was told that she could be a bit nappy when leaving the yard on her own (but fine if you trotted her on) and that she needed riding in spurs as she was very lazy. When I tried her she was being ridden in a badly fitting saddle (way to narrow) but didn't do anything horrendous apart from a couple of small bucks. I rode in the school and on the road (not in company but had people with me on foot) and all was fine.

She was initially kept at where I work. For the first few weeks she was OK, had some napping in the school to start with and some very sharp baby? moments but wasn't too worried by that. I only hacked in company as wanted to get to know her first. After that initial period she then became very sharp and nappy in the school and we had an awful week of hacking where she was very tense, sharp and just downright naughty (all in company), bucking, broncing, taking off etc.

The following week she was treated by a Bowen therapist who spotted lots of problems and started sorting them out, very wonky and tight. She had the rest of the week off.

The next weekend I moved her home where she would have more of a routine and I would have more time to ride. She ended up having two weeks off between the awful rides and the next time I got on her, with one Bowen session in the middle of it.

I had no choice but to hack (off road thankfully) alone so was dreading it but she surprised me by being really good, bit spooky and green but that's fine, she is only 5 after all.

A couple of days later a friend came on foot with me to the next village, again no major problems, one small nap on the way home but feeling much more relaxed and enjoying herself, even when we met 6 tractors and trailers along the way.

She then had another session of Bowen, therapist really pleased with the improvement in her movement and can see a difference in her shape. She recommends getting the chiro out to give her a going over/sort the wonky pelvis out.

I continue to ride her alone with no major problems, no lazyness that I expected, she was forward going and fairly sensible given her age. Only napped when we turned for home but they were dealt with and she would finish the ride quite happily. All very easy, no pressure, just walk and trot concentrating on going forward sensibly.

I then hacked out with a friend. As soon as we met the other horse mine decided to start being crabby, sluggish and nappy. Managed a fairly long but steady ride but was having to rely on the other horse quite a lot to take the lead. She walked out really nicely in front until something (or nothing!) worried her and then she would nap/be a cowbag!

She had the following week off due to awful weather and was then treated by the Chiro on the Friday. Chiro found some tears in her groin and lots of sore spots, treatment caused the Miss to kick out which she has never done before so obviously she was sore. Was told to ride her gently the next day but gave her the day off and road her on the Sunday.

As soon as I got on she was lazy and sluggish but managed to get about a mile from home without any major drama. I then let her stop to look at some sheep and from that point on I had trouble. Napping, spinning, broncing down the road. No change to really put your leg on as she avoids the direction you want to go at all costs. A car came so I trotted her back towards home for 200 hundred yards and then turned her back round the way I wanted to go, got her past the bit she'd napped at only to have a repeat performance another 100 yards down the road. After a battle I had to give up and headed for home (didn't get off to try and lead her as was feeling ill and standing resulted in pain - Shouldn't have ridden in hindsight!). Got home and my mum walked down down the road with me, a bit spooky and tense but no napping.

Gave her two sachets of bute Sunday night and again last night as thought she may just be really sore after the chiro.

Took her out today and only got 200 yards from home before she started playing up again. Battled it out for so long then got off and led her. Even leading her she was lazy and crabby and tbh looked bloody miserable. Got her as far as where she napped the previous ride when she planted and refused to walk again. With a lot of persuasion I managed to get her walking but it she still kept trying to stop and had a few more nappy moments.

I walked her a few hundred yards without stopping and then turned her for home. Instantly she perked up and walked forward nicely. I walked for a bit and then hopped back on. She was fine for the rest of the ride home.

So I am baffled She seemed to be really enjoying hacking to the extent of not wanting to turn for home but now she doesn't want to leave home at all?

She's not scared in the slightest although when she is having her moments she will use any excuse to explode.

Could hacking out in company once really have made that much difference to her? Or do you think she could still be really sore from the chiro? Could she have just been having a 'honey moon' period when I moved her home and now that's over?

Any thoughts or ideas as she's really got me scratching my head over this.....


*Pic 'n' Mix if you made it too the end*

 

[Hippona]

She's young and green.

She's moved home twice in 5 weeks.

She's had a badly fitting saddle and been sore.....(have you got a new saddle that fits, BTW?)

She's been ridden irregularly due to her soreness....

Its a combination of all of the above I would think.

I'm sure she will settle given time in her new home, as she gets to know you, isn't sore anymore etc etc.

If it were me and I was sure she wasn't sore I would hack her out alone, if she stopped and planted I would just sit there until she moved forwards....even if it meant sitting there for ages and ages.

She's probably unsure of everything and unconfident at present.

 

[Dizzydancer]

Oo i do love pick and mix.
Seriously now, i would be thinking maybe she is still sore from chiro as she obviously caused some pain- surprised you were told to ride day after (ino you didn't) my boy had a bad back had his chiro out he has got a week off and then only straight lines for 2 weeks.
You didn't say (or iv forgotten) but presume you have a saddle that fits now?
She is also likely to be testing you out. Was she ridden in company previously all the time?
Seems bizarre it happened straight after doing that tho, ino my forward going horse gets lazy and expects a lead if in company but then is normal when on his own. Hopefully someone else will come along with ideas.
Presume she was vetted?

 

[Landcruiser]

I agree with the points re pain, moving, green etc. In addition, I wonder how her previous owner dealt with her...it worries me that they said a 5 year old needs spurs!

My first horse was quite similar (and turned out to have foot and joint pain, as well as trust issues). It took a long time to work through the napping, spinning, plain cussedness at times. 5 years on we understand each other very well, and we also trust each other...patience and kindness will get you there if you sort the physical stuff out.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

First off she has a history of being nappy so I wouldn't say baffled is a good word. I don't know what Bowen is. I am a fan of chiro's but I really have my vet do a thorough exam to know exactly what I'm dealing with. You could have teeth issues, ulcers, healed tiny fractures, OCD, ligaments, tendons, and so on and on. A saddle fitter and chiro's are great (well supposed to be) at what they do but they're not substituted for vets and getting the problem sorted.

And that's if they're pain related. Could be, could be attitude, badly started, and since she's a mare something going on inside with her hormones or repro organs.

I'm old school in that a vet sorts horses issues out if there are any. Everything else is complimentary in keeping horses right. And by vet, it's usually a lameness specialist. I have a GP, a repro, and lameness vet.

Once you get that sorted, if there is anything to sort, then it's getting her over her issues. Most mares do not forget nor do they forgive easily. It's why most people won't deal with them or want to deal with them. I personally love them for this. Keeps me honest! You may need help getting her sorted as in guidance. Lessons ect. It will probably take time. And I also have to add, I just do not base my horses soley on hacking ability. If I could only ride on my rides they'd be pasture puffs. Narrow country roads with nothing but tractors and very large lorries all day long. Frightens the life out of me on my own two feet never mind a horse. They are all decent on the roads but I go on Sundays. Safer. I prefer hacking around my fields. So maybe this might not be her thing either. Don't know. Hard to judge from the Internet.

Terri

 

[3Beasties]

Thanks for your replies, will read and respond later when back from uni!

 

[vicky_sut]

I find it odd when your chiro 'found tears in her groin' but didn't tell you to contact your vet? Did he mean there is scar tissue from a healed tear?

 

[3Beasties]

She's had a badly fitting saddle and been sore.....(have you got a new saddle that fits, BTW?)

I have borrowed a saddle from my saddler, she is hard to fit due to her shape so I haven't got my own for her yet. Will get saddler out to re-check the one I have borrowed as she has changed shape.

If it were me and I was sure she wasn't sore I would hack her out alone, if she stopped and planted I would just sit there until she moved forwards....even if it meant sitting there for ages and ages.

I did try that but it is impossible to keep her facing the way I want her to go as she will spin, leap and back up until she is facing home, then she'll stand still quite happily

Seriously now, i would be thinking maybe she is still sore from chiro as she obviously caused some pain- surprised you were told to ride day after (ino you didn't) my boy had a bad back had his chiro out he has got a week off and then only straight lines for 2 weeks.

It surprised me tbh too, my usual Chiro after a routine visit to my TB (Not much needed sorting) usually advises a couple of days off at least and then gentle hacking for a few days.

You didn't say (or iv forgotten) but presume you have a saddle that fits now?

Yes but I'll get it re-checked.

She is also likely to be testing you out. Was she ridden in company previously all the time?

I think she was mainly ridden alone although I suspect a lot of her work was in the school.

Seems bizarre it happened straight after doing that tho, ino my forward going horse gets lazy and expects a lead if in company but then is normal when on his own. Hopefully someone else will come along with ideas.
Presume she was vetted?

My TB is the same, is far better alone then in company.

Yes she was vetted.

My first horse was quite similar (and turned out to have foot and joint pain, as well as trust issues). It took a long time to work through the napping, spinning, plain cussedness at times. 5 years on we understand each other very well, and we also trust each other...patience and kindness will get you there if you sort the physical stuff out.

Hopefully it won't take 5 years to get on top of it

First off she has a history of being nappy so I wouldn't say baffled is a good word.

Baffled is a good enough word for me as that is what I am. For nearly 3 weeks she was hacking out alone confidently, was forward going, brave, sensible and responsive. Ears pricked, relaxed and enjoying herself. She was better to hack then my 17 year old who has been hacking for years!

I don't know what Bowen is.

It's muscle release therapy.

And I also have to add, I just do not base my horses soley on hacking ability.

Neither do I but they need to hack. Everything I do will be built on from that.

If I could only ride on my rides they'd be pasture puffs. Narrow country roads with nothing but tractors and very large lorries all day long. Frightens the life out of me on my own two feet never mind a horse. They are all decent on the roads but I go on Sundays. Safer. I prefer hacking around my fields. So maybe this might not be her thing either.

Terri

Unfortunately I don't have a school or access to off road riding so I have no option but to hack. There is no reason why she shouldn't hack, she has shown me that she can hack perfectly well but know we seem to have hit a wall that I somehow need to get her over.

I have got plans to take her out in the lorry to farm rides and to hire a school but I see know point in doing that until we are hacking again.

Hacking on Sundays doesn't always work here, the day I met 6 tractors was a Sunday. Some days we'll meet no traffic at all, other days we'll meet lots. Thankfully she seems fine in traffic.

I find it odd when your chiro 'found tears in her groin' but didn't tell you to contact your vet? Did he mean there is scar tissue from a healed tear?

She asked if she had foaled (which I don't know the answer too) as she had tearing that would suggest she had. She then later said that it felt fairly recent so could have been caused by badly skidding (which I know my mare did the week before I tried her).

 

[ha903070]

Pain and other issues aside (i'm commenting as if these things have been sorted and are not the problem - not dismissing them just hoping they are not the issue) this could be a lack of confidence on your horses part.

Maybe she needs mort time to feel confident with you as you havent had her long and she is young, when you took her out with the other horse she took confidence from them and now she is back out on her own it has knocked her back.
My mare is 'good' hacking out with other horses, on her own she has sadly become a nightmare this last 12 months. She was hacking out on her own fine until I had someone come and share her with me. They hacked her out on her own and said all was ok but since then she has been a spooky, planty nightmare. Refusing to go forwards, spooking at everything going, trying it all on.

My instructor thinks having a new rider has knocked her confidence. It got to the stage where I spent a lot of time going backwards, she would plant, refuse to go forwards so I turned her round and made her go the way I wanted but this meant she was going backwards. The after a while turn her forwards again and she would go, then try it on again, repeat scenario.

Once I was aided by a lampost that she ran backwards into, it rattled and sent her off up the road in the direction we were meant to be going but its not good and I sympathise with you. I have bottled things a bit with my mare recently and not taken her out on my own for a while, but I am proud that I have always been the one to decide when we go home, and not given in to her no matter how hard she has tried. Also I cant get off mine she will win immediately if I get off as she can be hard to handle from the ground.

Maybe your mare has learnt if she stops, you will get off her or take her home, as this has happened before? So she keeps doing it? Will going backwards for a short way assist like it does with mine? Good luck x

 

[FfionWinnie]

I think napping is baffling to an extent. My new mare can rear and try to spin leaving home. She is no different in company. Some days she walks out fine and other days there is a battle. I can't work out a pattern (and I have had all the checks done) with her. She only does it in my driveway at one bit.

My solution is to just battle on and while she will still try it on now, she doesn't try it on for long. Getting off and leading especially homeward, is really not a good move tho, I'm sure you know that.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Could it be she's coming into season, I know it's been wet but has been mild and my mare came into season today, and she's a complete manic

 

[3Beasties]

Maybe she needs mort time to feel confident with you as you havent had her long and she is young, when you took her out with the other horse she took confidence from them and now she is back out on her own it has knocked her back.
My mare is 'good' hacking out with other horses, on her own she has sadly become a nightmare this last 12 months. She was hacking out on her own fine until I had someone come and share her with me. They hacked her out on her own and said all was ok but since then she has been a spooky, planty nightmare. Refusing to go forwards, spooking at everything going, trying it all on.

Weirdly with the other horse she almost acted kike she didn't enjoy it, she kept threatening to kick him despite not showing any inclination of this previously.

Maybe your mare has learnt if she stops, you will get off her or take her home, as this has happened before? So she keeps doing it? Will going backwards for a short way assist like it does with mine? Good luck x

Today was the first time I have got off her when she has been playing up so don't think it's that.

Am slightly reluctant to try the going backwards thing as I had a horse on part loan that was made to do this, it got to the point that backing up became so easy for her that she could back half a mile down the road without an issue which made getting her to go forward difficult. I did overcome it eventually with her but I vowed never to back her up if she napped again as her owner had obviously done too much of it in the past.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Sorry but she is coming into season.From what you have said.

 

[3Beasties]

My solution is to just battle on and while she will still try it on now, she doesn't try it on for long. Getting off and leading especially homeward, is really not a good move tho, I'm sure you know that.

I hate getting off, would much rather stay on but there is really only so much I can do. If she just stopped it would be easier but she really throws a strop when I try to send her in the direction I want to go and being on the road it obviously isn't ideal

I have only got off her once (first time was today).

 

[lhotse]

Make sure all your rides are circular, it sounds like you are riding to a point then turning for home. The horse will be picking up on this and she has now decided when she is turning not you. My mare went through a stage of napping at the top of the hill when I wanted to turn into the lane as she was more familiar with going straight on. Mini rears and general planting. I sat it out until she realised we were going where I wanted. When I first got her, I rode in company too, but I needed to hack out on my own as I ride when most people are working so we spent a long time out on our own, exploring lots of new places. When I then rode in company, she wanted to hide behind the other horse in places where she could be a bit backward, but anywhere new and she is straight in front.
I believe it's a matter of confidence, she is 6 and was only backed at the end of last summer so was green as is yours. I've had her since march and I could tell exactly when she decided that she trusted my judgement to go places and she stopped napping overnight. Now if she does hesitate, it's not a nap, and reassurance works to get her past.
I still always ride a loop though.
I think you will find that if you have the patience to stick with it rather than turning for home, then you will solve the problem quite easily, but you must be the one calling the shots because at the moment, she is winning. It's a confidence issue probably more so than lazyness or pain. You just have to be the one that she looks to when she is unsure.
I know how frustrating it is, my sister's old pony reversed a quarter of a mile up a lane once because of a pig farm, but there was no way he was turning round and we got past in the end!!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Briefly wondered if you might try sheepskin cheek piece covers as it can make them more forward thinking not seeing behind them.

 

[3Beasties]

can't quote as on my phone but all hacks up until the last two rides have been circular. The shortest ride I can do takes 45 minutes and I just ran out of time today because of all the messing around. I had the farrier due so had to get home.

It may well be confidence but would she have had the couple of weeks of hacking fine first?

 

[lhotse]

Mine was fine at first too, it was all new and exciting and she had company. Even my first hacks alone were fine, it was almost like once she was familiar with the greater surroundings, she could start to find things to worry about. I know that the reason she didn't want to go down the lane is because of the pig farm, now she goes past without any problem. But she didn't know it was there the first time, and she went past albeit apprehensively.