Bag of bones wind sucking tb

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ponymad85

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Hi guys I went to view a tb last week and travelled quite far to look. Only went because his pictures look fab. Got there and was a totally different story. Didn't need to pull off his rugs to know that he was just bones underneath. I don't think the lady who owns him knows much about them and thinks he can live on the same feed as her native ponies. Vets gave him the all clear just needs tlc and feeding up. Oh and he windsucks and she hasn't got a collar on him. Can somebody please help and recommend what to feed him on. He's 13.
 
So did you buy him?
I'm not a fan of collars I believe they create more stress than just letting them get on with it. Ibwould turn him out as much as possible. Plenty of good hay and grass. Adlib. I have my tb on TopSpec and he looks fabulous so I would call a feed company to get their advice. If he is stress he could be suffering with ulcers.
 
ponymad85 said:
Hi guys I went to view a tb last week and travelled quite far to look. Only went because his pictures look fab. Got there and was a totally different story. Didn't need to pull off his rugs to know that he was just bones underneath. I don't think the lady who owns him knows much about them and thinks he can live on the same feed as her native ponies. Vets gave him the all clear just needs tlc and feeding up. Oh and he windsucks and she hasn't got a collar on him. Can somebody please help and recommend what to feed him on. He's 13.
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Does he crib bite too, or just wind suck? Personally I'd give him a miss. We have a crib biter and it's an absolute pain, though ours didn't start until after we bought him when he was on a prolonged period of box rest. I'd be a bit wary about ulcers too, especially if his body condition is poor. If he crib bites too then you will have to worry about damage to fencing/ stables, although at least it is preventable, whereas a horse that wind sucks doesn't need anything in order to do it. My experience with collars hasn't always been that great, though they do help with some horses.
 
Windsucking and cribbing are often signs the horse has ulcers so feed him and manage him as if he does have them, adlib forage, plenty of turnout, as little stress as possible and low sugar/ starch fibre based feeds, obviously worm or do a count and keep him warm, you should see some improvement fairly quickly if he has been on restricted forage, dont be tempted to stuff hard feed into him just let him pick up slowly.
I would give 3 small feeds of something like grassnuts, linseed and a handful of grass chop and gradually build it up as his appetite and condition gets better, good luck it is not the best time of year o take on a poor one but by April when the grass is through he should be looking better and a good summer should set him up well.

Consider scoping for ulcers at a later date, he may slow down the windsucking once he settles but if not please dont put a collar on him as that makes them stress, try and get him out as much as you can.
 
As said great as an ulcer horse and you might see a vast difference! It can be a pain and most liveries will hate your horse but you can manage cribbing if they do it too by having a strand of wire around the paddock to stop it getting to the posts and putting a log or similar in for it to get the need to nibble out. Mine love chewing their log in winter - but they're not cribbers just winter ponies foraging :)
 
You will probably find that over time and careful management that the cribbing/wind sucking becomes less as his quality of life improves.

Though I don't use them myself a lot of people recommend the TopSpec Ulcerkind cubes for tb's. It would be a good place to start. Drop them an email and they will give you a tailored feeding plan.

Personally mine look great on Saracen Show Improver Cubes, Alfa A and Veteran Vitality but mine don't wind suck or have any vices.
 
Hi guys, no he doesn't crib bite at all. He's been scoped for ulcers as I've had him vetted. He's just really poor in condition as he's just a been fed chaff and pony nuts... Like I said it's what her natives are fed on. The yard I'm on said he's not bothered that he wind sucks because not every horse is perfect plus there's metal strips on top of all the doors and the fields are all electric fencing so he will find it difficult when out for a place to do it. I know he's not. Young horse but he isn't exactly old either. More than anything I just feel sorry for him. I've seen photos and videos of him I'm the summer and he looked perfect 👌. I won't be using a collar either as I agree it can stress them out more. Thank you I certainly will contact them and see what they recommend as a feeding plan for him.
 
You can't vet a horse which has been starved all night and you can't scope without starving all night. How was he scoped for ulcers as part of a vetting? He's an underfed TB who wind sucks. It will be a miracle if he doesn't have them, but then it is Christmas!
 
Vetted twice? That must have been pricey. Are you actually thinking of buying this horse? If not, why are you discussing the feed regime with the owner? And if you are buying, again why involve the owner in what to feed? Something not adding up here OP.
 
be positive said:
Windsucking and cribbing are often signs the horse has ulcers so feed him and manage him as if he does have them, adlib forage, plenty of turnout, as little stress as possible and low sugar/ starch fibre based feeds, obviously worm or do a count and keep him warm, you should see some improvement fairly quickly if he has been on restricted forage, dont be tempted to stuff hard feed into him just let him pick up slowly.
I would give 3 small feeds of something like grassnuts, linseed and a handful of grass chop and gradually build it up as his appetite and condition gets better, good luck it is not the best time of year o take on a poor one but by April when the grass is through he should be looking better and a good summer should set him up well.

Consider scoping for ulcers at a later date, he may slow down the windsucking once he settles but if not please dont put a collar on him as that makes them stress, try and get him out as much as you can.
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This.

If you have bought him instill a routine straight away, feed ad lib forage (and forage in the field if possible), and I know some people swear by things like Comfort Gut and Coligone.

I've usually found that windsuckers usually appear to windsuck more if they are stressed with things like, pain, their routine has been disrupted, they have run out of hay or their feed is on the way.

I find that the symptoms are manageable but a windsucker never stops completely. I wouldn't put a collar on, I can't imagine they are very pleasant for the horse.
 
please feed ad lib hay in the stable and if grass s scares in the paddock too, turn out as much as possible. a high oil feed will add weight such as micronized linseed. there are also other types of high oil feeds such as baileys Outshine. when hes stabled try giving him something to do rather than just standing about try meadow hay in a net and timothy hay in another tried in a different place so he has to walk around. a swede in his trough or a trickle ball on the floor with hi fibre cubes in it , will all help keep him occupied. Good luck with him, sounds like hes found a lovely caring owner who wants to do the best for him.
 
be positive said:
Windsucking and cribbing are often signs the horse has ulcers so feed him and manage him as if he does have them, adlib forage, plenty of turnout, as little stress as possible and low sugar/ starch fibre based feeds, obviously worm or do a count and keep him warm, you should see some improvement fairly quickly if he has been on restricted forage, dont be tempted to stuff hard feed into him just let him pick up slowly.
I would give 3 small feeds of something like grassnuts, linseed and a handful of grass chop and gradually build it up as his appetite and condition gets better, good luck it is not the best time of year o take on a poor one but by April when the grass is through he should be looking better and a good summer should set him up well.

Consider scoping for ulcers at a later date, he may slow down the windsucking once he settles but if not please dont put a collar on him as that makes them stress, try and get him out as much as you can.
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^^^^ This!
 
ponymad85 said:
Hi guys, no he doesn't crib bite at all. He's been scoped for ulcers as I've had him vetted. He's just really poor in condition as he's just a been fed chaff and pony nuts... Like I said it's what her natives are fed on. The yard I'm on said he's not bothered that he wind sucks because not every horse is perfect plus there's metal strips on top of all the doors and the fields are all electric fencing so he will find it difficult when out for a place to do it. I know he's not. Young horse but he isn't exactly old either. More than anything I just feel sorry for him. I've seen photos and videos of him I'm the summer and he looked perfect 👌. I won't be using a collar either as I agree it can stress them out more. Thank you I certainly will contact them and see what they recommend as a feeding plan for him.
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Sounds like he is a crib biter not a wind sucker then - wind sucking is where they suck air in without using anything to hold onto, crib biting is where they do the same thing but using a piece of wood or fencing. Or at least that's how I've always understood it. He won't have been scoped for ulcers as part of a vetting, unless you asked for it to be done separately?

The jury is out on whether ulcers cause crib biting/ wind sucking or vice versa, but the two certainly seem to be linked. Our crib biter was treated for ulcers a few years ago. The biggest help for him though has been running electric tape along the top of all fencing so he has nowhere to do it, so it sounds like your field set up is good. Bear in mind that he may well still crib bite on the metal strip on his door, or may even do it on the sides of the door frame. If he is a chronic crib biter and desperate to do it then he will, particularly if he is stabled a lot over winter. It is very stressful! Our boy lives out and because of the way he have fenced his field he hasn't been able to do it for a long time - he looks the best he's ever looked in terms of condition and is living out without a rug over winter. He is a Welsh section D though, not a TB.

Feedwise we keep things simple. He has speedibeet, alfa-a molasses free and forage plus winter balancer. We have fed linseed before for extra condition but frankly he doesn't need it this year. I wouldn't go out and buy a horse who crib bites because it can be a serious hassle, especially if you end up needing to scope/ treat for ulcers. That's said, what's done is done, so good luck with him.
 
ponymad85 said:
He was actually vetted twice! Didnt think I'd need to write that as it was common sense
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Common sense would have seen you write 'he was vetted and also scoped for ulcers, which are clear'.

You didn't think it might be common sense to mention that in the first post ??? :D

It will be about the third or fourth you now own, going by your other posts, but you don't seem like an owner who has the kind of knowledge to run a herd like that if you don't know how to feed a thin TB?
 
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we have an slight cribber, so i watch him to see when he cribs, which is not very often, but usually after eating something tasty, so if i feed him a bucket feed i put some of it on the hay and he does not crib he goes straight to the hay and eats.

there are many ways of distracting a horses from cribbing if you can learn when he does it, and what starts him off.

high fibre diets, build him up to munching hay most of the time, lots of interesting things going on, he has had a bad time, best of luck with him
 
ponymad85 said:
I have plenty of knowledge you ********, funny how people come on here for advice but then literally keyboard warriors like yourself have to pipe up to try pull others down. I suppose you know everything there is to know about horses then don't you?? It's not that I don't know how to feed a thin tb I came here to ask what others would do..... So bog off and go bug someone else.
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Merry Christmas to you too :D
 
I have just read through and did wonder but what really pees me off is the number of people who take the time and trouble to reply to what initially appears to be a genuine thread and it turns out it's just some flippin' wind up merchant.

Yes I have seen a few spats on here but on the whole it is people offering their advice and support to others who they have never met and are never likely to but that doesn't stop them trying to help them.

If I live to be 100 I'll never have a tenth of the knowledge that a lot of the posters have and I wish the trolls would just Troll Off.

Rant over.
 
Less than four hours. Impressive :D

You never know, someone else with a thin, windsucking horse may have gleaned some useful information from this thread. Every cloud and all that...
 
I think they may be greyed out because of what they called me. The post has been removed but you can see it in my reply in the quote I didn't button push, I thought it was a hilarious flounce.
 
This entire thing was preventable. Not that i think we want someone who is so quick to get grumpy when posts are not all unicorns and fairies, but this forum is dying a slow death and i can't help think that it is the replies people with genuine questions. The only stupid question is the one not asked. I've many qus i still ask or want to, even though i KNOW the answer, sometimes it is just good to get a second opinion - but half the time i am afraid to post it, despite being quite an established member.

Everyone is too paranoid. If its a troll, let them have a normal sensible answer and no more. Its the drama they crave. A new poster seeing that even a troll gets a decent reply is more likely to reply..i was genuinely terrified of this forum for years, now i'm older and wiser.
 
And actually the subject of cribbing/wind sucking is an interesting one. I do have a pet hate though. It's people who make a statement as if that is the be or and end all in how to manage cribbing and that's not helpful. No one can definitively say what causes cribbing because there would appear to be a huge range of issues which could kick it off. I have seen 4 horses out of the same stallion, all on different yards, all well managed, all cribbed. Upping the forage certainly helps and at one time, I put my horse onto a wheat straw bed. I tried scoping, treating for ulcers, gastric aid, digestive supplements. I did use a miracle collar (padded) after 2 of his siblings ended up woth surgical colic. Finally, what worked for him was pretty much living out with electric tape across the fences. However, I am very well aware that all I ever managed to do was to treat the outcome...we never (that means vets and myself) actually bottomed out what was causing it and the sad thing is, is that normally this behaviour is that of an unhappy horse. I have seen horses who seem to get into the habit of cribbing and their owners found that letting the horse have a bit of a chew or suck actually seemed to keep them content.
 
I think it's pretty well recognised that cribbing releases hormones that calm the horse or make it feel good. So in that respect, apart from wondering why they ever start, there's not much more reason to think that a horse in good management is any more unhappy than an addicted smoker/vaper. I've seen a foal with a mother that did it start at a couple of months old. Learned or hereditary?? I'm open to both suggestions.
 
Luci07 said:
And actually the subject of cribbing/wind sucking is an interesting one. I do have a pet hate though. It's people who make a statement as if that is the be or and end all in how to manage cribbing and that's not helpful. No one can definitively say what causes cribbing because there would appear to be a huge range of issues which could kick it off. I have seen 4 horses out of the same stallion, all on different yards, all well managed, all cribbed. Upping the forage certainly helps and at one time, I put my horse onto a wheat straw bed. I tried scoping, treating for ulcers, gastric aid, digestive supplements. I did use a miracle collar (padded) after 2 of his siblings ended up woth surgical colic. Finally, what worked for him was pretty much living out with electric tape across the fences. However, I am very well aware that all I ever managed to do was to treat the outcome...we never (that means vets and myself) actually bottomed out what was causing it and the sad thing is, is that normally this behaviour is that of an unhappy horse. I have seen horses who seem to get into the habit of cribbing and their owners found that letting the horse have a bit of a chew or suck actually seemed to keep them content.
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my mare started cribbing and there didnt seem to be a reason, i kept her out as much as poss and managed to lessen the cribbing..some years later she was diagnosed with cushings and once established on the medication she stopped cribbing completely. so i think it was the cushings that started her cribbing in the first place....
 
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