Baileys or Allen & Page?

ellie_e

ellie_e

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Just starting to think about the winter coming up and a change of feed for my 6yr old KWPN, he’s in medium work (6days a week, 1-2flat work lessons, 1 jumping, 2hack, 1lunge, 1schooling /competing) He’s currently out 24/7 and has hay when he comes in for work, he’s already in a medium weight rug as he’s cold, so would like something to give him condition over the winter BUT something that will NOT make him fizzy. He currently gets fed, a handful of Spillers horse&pony cubes, a handful of Countrywide's own branded chaff, 2scoops of feedmarks calmer, 2scoops of linseed, 1 scoop of extraflex. He may get a carrot or apple if he’s lucky as im aware of sugar content. He will be fully clipped or at least a high blanket. He’s been with us since end of Feb and has come on leaps and bounds but worried he will loose all condition in winter. Ive been looking into Baileys No 4, top line conditioning cubes, or Allen & Page, calm & condition, tbh i like the look of the baileys, but what are your preferances? Or is there something else out there to give him the condition without making him wild.
 
I think Bailey's No.4 is AMAZING stuff. Just put a 3yr old on to Allen and Page Calm and Condition as it says on the packet it is less heating than No.4. I must admit, she's better in her temperament but is getting Mag Ox as well. I do not think the conditioning qualities of the A&P are as good as the No.4 but I have only fed it to one animal. I would try the No.4 and if your horse gets too wild then try A&P. These things can only be worked out through trial and error!
 
I am not keen on the Spillers weight gain cubes (cannot remember the name.) A friend who events professionally has put her horses on to one of those slow release energy feeds. I cannot remember the name even though I had to buy some for her a few weeks ago. Her horses seem to go well on it and are fairly sharp so wouldn't want sharpening! I also feed Soya Oil to mine to add calories to their diets.
 
Yes I feed it with Alfa A oil, as I do think it makes a difference compared to normal alfa.

I also feed a handful of outshine, which is expensive but I think it is great stuff, you only need a little bit and it gets even skinny TB's through the winter looking well.

I also feed unmolassed sugarbeet during the winter

I don't do 'hot' horses anymore, and I'm scared of the amount of sugars in mix! So this combo works for me
 
I stopped feeding Alfa Oil last winter after 5 years on it and feed a local chaff at a fraction of the price. Adding Soya Oil also at a fraction of the price has equated to horses looking fab and much easier on the pocket. I buy the 25Gal drums of oil and have a pump dispenser on it. I am supporting a local feed merchant by purchasing their chaff and it does the same thing.
 
Allen & Page everytime whichever feed you choose, all their feeds are approved by the Vegetarian Society approval so you can be sure that no animal by products are making their way into your horse's system. Got to be good all round??
 
ellie_e said:
Have any of you tried the Spillers -Response slow release engery feed?
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Yes, I feed the cubes to my daughter's horse and he does very well on it - keeps the weight on and gives him enough energy for his work without making him silly. More calories but less starch/cereal than in normal horse and pony cubes. Quite a good one to try before going onto full-blown conditioning feeds.

Worth changing from hay to a high-fibre haylage as well if you can.
 
He will be on haylage when he comes in of an evening in the winter, he just gets a hay net to keep him occupied when im grooming. Thanks for all your help. Will look into the Alfa a chaff as dont have any experiences with this.
 
I have fed both Spillers and Allen and Page. They looked better on Spillers but found thst it made them high as kites. Allen and Page, they had a better brain but didn't have quite the same "glow" about them.

This year I moved all mine onto Falcon feed. They look fantastic are lovely and settled and I really, really highly reccomend it. They are also much cheaper than other "known" brands. Check out their website and see what you think.
 
Can't stand falcon feeds, my horses looked poor on it as well as being bonkers - Bailey's all the way for me, much better quality and does what it says on the bag.
 
Ive never heard of falcon feeds, i like the idea of the baileys but it is not as high in fibre compared to the A&P, (baileys 9%, A&P 14%) would this bother you? And im worried if I change his feed he will be back at sqaure one,ive spent 7months working with him getting him to settle, and hes finally turning a corner and calming down! (when we 1st bought him, he was on Alfa A oil, a conditioning feed of some sort, and bluechip and a complete nightmare!! Stresshead and even worse to sit on)
 
The work that your horse is getting is similar to that of my 2 show jumpers. They need to keep condition & have sufficient energy to perform well but without any associated silliness that some feeds give.

I found that 'Power & Performance' gives them everything they need. They have Alfa A with it & sometimes carrot if I've got any. Here's a link, have a read.

http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Medium-and-Hard-Work/Power-and-Performance.aspx
 
ellie_e said:
Ive never heard of falcon feeds, i like the idea of the baileys but it is not as high in fibre compared to the A&P, (baileys 9%, A&P 14%) would this bother you? And im worried if I change his feed he will be back at sqaure one,ive spent 7months working with him getting him to settle, and hes finally turning a corner and calming down! (when we 1st bought him, he was on Alfa A oil, a conditioning feed of some sort, and bluechip and a complete nightmare!! Stresshead and even worse to sit on)
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I wouldn't worry too much about the fibre level as long as he is getting plenty of fibre in other ways (adlib hay/haylage, grazing, chaff etc). I'd look more at the starch and sugar levels of any feed you are considering as this is what is most likely to fizz him up. The Bailey's Topline Cubes, for example, are higher in starch than Calm & Condition or the Slow Release Cubes. Another feed worth considering is the Top Spec Cool Condition Cubes as these are grain-free and therefore quite low in starch - it does need to be fed alongside a balancer or vit/min supplement though.
 
If he's Ok on what he is on at the moment why don't you increase it? He's only on a handful of chaff and pony nuts why not increase the amount to say a scoop/2 scoops a day of each, add some oil and see how you go? That's what I would do first.

If that doesn't work I would choose Calm and Condition, spillers slow release cubes or falcon feeds oat and barley free all these only have around 12% starch.

I think the Baileys cubes are about 26% starch (email baileys if you like as they will say) and these cubes sent my late mare bonkers so I won't use them again.
 
He gets oil now, he is starting to lack that bit extra and im concerend in another 3months when winter hits hard he wont be able to cope with the work load, even though hes sharp/spooky he is behind the leg and lazy, hes only young and hasnt really done anything since being over in the UK as previous owners were scared of him. (he was wild!)
TGM I think he will be getting enough fibre, he will be on ok grazing come the winter turned out from 7.30 until 3-4ish. 2 large haylage nets at night plus chaff in his feed. Thanks for advice
 
I have a sport horse who can go utterly loopy on too much sugar but will become ribby overnight if he doesn't get enough calories. I've fed both of the feeds you are looking at . . . I just love Bailey's No 4 and Bailey's No 1 for building topline, etc. and Kal did well on A&P and D&H however I found we were overcomplicating his feed once I started adding oil, calmer, pink powder and supps for his feet, plus I felt like we were duplicating some things (which is wasteful b/c he just excreted what he didn't need) and we were also feeding him some things he just didn't need/wouldn't be eating naturally (e.g., peas!).

So.

He now gets:

Alfa A Molasses Free (he can't handle molasses)
Blue Chip Original (to sort his supp needs out/balance out the chaff)
Haylage

and in the winter Speedibeet just to give him some more fuel to keep himself warm and keep his condition (he drops weight so easily).

Doesn't hot him up, his coat is lovely, he has enough energy to cope with his work levels but isn't (too) silly (he does have his moments but that's just him).

That's it. No oil. No supps. He's currently getting 1/4 scoop of each, twice a day - that will go up to 1/4 scoop three times a day shortly and then we'll add the Speedibeet to his morning and evening feed once the weather really turns.

When I had him on DIY, I made up his Speedibeet with HOT water so he had something warm in his tummy (and, yes, I know that's unnatural - but I do like to pamper my boy).

Good luck.

P
 
How much oil are you feeding? Horses can tolerate a lot. It is the best way to put weight on/condition. Also good for stamina, which I found my WB lacked, and feeding oil helped her.

If you are feeding larger quantities of oil you also need to feed antioxidants - which is why I like the outshine, as it is a high oil feed but is balanced with everything they need
 
Like Firewell said, why don't you just try upping his current feed first.

If that is working for now then I would try that first, before changing to something else. Maybe just add vit e and selenium to balance out the amount of linseed you are feeding?

I'm too lazy and prefer an 'all in one' balanced feed like Outshine, although it does work out to be more expensive.

If he is still lacking condition then I would change the pony nuts to Baileys no.4 and see how that goes.

If you are already feeding oil and chaff then there is probably no need to switch to Alfa A oil.
 
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