Bakers

Vizslak said:
You can see from my post why I think its expensive, and with 4 dogs of all different sizes and needs then it would be a bit of a faff, I dont want to feed outside everyday either its much easier for me to put their bowls down in 'their spaces' in the kitchen at meal times. 2 of my dogs refuse to leave the house when its raining...how do I feed them then?! I dont want to stand in the rain dishing out chicken wings myself particularly either! :o My dogs also have very healthy poos and gleaming coats...there is more than one way to skin a cat!
Click to expand...

I see your point entirely. :) I started with Orijen, easy, measure, feed. I don't think raw is the only way, I just want to do it for my lot.

They don't eat outside often, just if they choose or it's very huge/messy. The pups like their bones in the garden. It's like WW said, easy when you know how. :)
 
I'd love to be able to feed raw but my JR has been so ill after raw poultry. I have no idea why. The Vet I saw said something along the lines of 'you wouldn't eat raw chicken so why give it to your dog?'!!

He loves raw mince though. I feed 'fish for dogs'
 
deicinmerlyn said:
I'd love to be able to feed raw but my JR has been so ill after raw poultry. I have no idea why. The Vet I saw said something along the lines of 'you wouldn't eat raw chicken so why give it to your dog?'!!

He loves raw mince though. I feed 'fish for dogs'
Click to expand...

[slaps your vet upside his head with a frozen chicken wing]

Dogs and humans = very different digestive tracts:p

Dogs that have been fed kibble for a while have to 'train' their stomach acid back to it's natural state, so you have to go VERY slow at first.

Fish4Dogs is supposed to be a good alternative though.
 
If we are to discuss the canine, and its diet, then first we need to consider the animal, itself.

Would we agree, that with the exception of a few of the toy breeds, that most breeds of the dogs which we keep today, will have derived from stock which were servants, and had to justify their existence? Would we also agree that these dogs have been bred from animals which were tools, before they were companions?

The fact is that most breeds of dog, those which we keep today, have derived from scavengers, and that is what they still are. "The Dog" is an opportunist, by dietary need. The diet needs to be varied, I believe. If we keep one or perhaps two dogs, then the ideal kitchen scraps, used to augment a basic diet would be ideal. The problem arises, when we have kennels, and perhaps three or more dogs. It becomes so easy for us to feed a "complete" sic meal, and cereal based feeds cannot provide that. Dogs are not vegetarian, by choice. The fact that the manufacturers of these complete feeds will tell us that their feeds "contain", fish, or chicken, or kangaroo, or beef, means very little. The percentages of such contents, will probably be best considered as flavouring.

Protein can be derived from many sources. For sheep and cattle, for instance, the cheap feeds have the protein sourced from urine. I do wonder where these manufacturers (those who produce our dog feeds) actually source their cheap proteins.

I work on the basis, that my dogs receive a base diet of Dr. Johns. As a supplement, they receive kitchen scraps, cooked chicken carcasses, game carcasses, lamb chop bones, beef bones, the discarded skins from cooked fish, and just about anything else which is going, cracked eggs and cheese scraps being amongst them!

If I had more dogs, than our kitchen waste could provide for, then I'd fall back on whatever offal I could lay my hands on. The offal from ruminants, is the near ideal diet for a dog, backed up by a supply of cereal based biscuit.

There is one exception, I never feed the meat, or the bones of a pig to my dogs. That's not because I'm a devout Muslim, it's because I don't think that it's right. :confused::)

These are just my thoughts and I feel sure that others will disagree.

Alec.
 
Alec, seriously, cooked chicken carcasses?! Please tell me no! That's really dangerous! Cooked bones can splinter, are brittle and can cause untold damage (my friend's Doberman died of a related problem). :eek:

Why not pork? Is it because they're so cute? I wouldn't like to meet the pigs our pigs' ears are coming from! Not cute!

I personally like variety, so I feed every type of raw meat that I can get my hands on.
 
Alec Swan said:
If we are to discuss the canine, and its diet, then first we need to consider the animal, itself.

Would we agree, that with the exception of a few of the toy breeds, that most breeds of the dogs which we keep today, will have derived from stock which were servants, and had to justify their existence? Would we also agree that these dogs have been bred from animals which were tools, before they were companions?

The fact is that most breeds of dog, those which we keep today, have derived from scavengers, and that is what they still are. "The Dog" is an opportunist, by dietary need. The diet needs to be varied, I believe. If we keep one or perhaps two dogs, then the ideal kitchen scraps, used to augment a basic diet would be ideal. The problem arises, when we have kennels, and perhaps three or more dogs. It becomes so easy for us to feed a "complete" sic meal, and cereal based feeds cannot provide that. Dogs are not vegetarian, by choice. The fact that the manufacturers of these complete feeds will tell us that their feeds "contain", fish, or chicken, or kangaroo, or beef, means very little. The percentages of such contents, will probably be best considered as flavouring.

Protein can be derived from many sources. For sheep and cattle, for instance, the cheap feeds have the protein sourced from urine. I do wonder where these manufacturers (those who produce our dog feeds) actually source their cheap proteins.

I work on the basis, that my dogs receive a base diet of Dr. Johns. As a supplement, they receive kitchen scraps, cooked chicken carcasses, game carcasses, lamb chop bones, beef bones, the discarded skins from cooked fish, and just about anything else which is going, cracked eggs and cheese scraps being amongst them!

If I had more dogs, than our kitchen waste could provide for, then I'd fall back on whatever offal I could lay my hands on. The offal from ruminants, is the near ideal diet for a dog, backed up by a supply of cereal based biscuit.

There is one exception, I never feed the meat, or the bones of a pig to my dogs. That's not because I'm a devout Muslim, it's because I don't think that it's right. :confused::)

These are just my thoughts and I feel sure that others will disagree.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Favourite post of the month :D The diet of the majority of working lurchers the length and bredth of the country for years and Ive never seen one look sick or sorry on it!
I still mantain the pig thing too :o
 
cinammontoast said:
Alec, seriously, cooked chicken carcasses?! Please tell me no! That's really dangerous! Cooked bones can splinter, are brittle and can cause untold damage (my friend's Doberman died of a related problem). :eek:

Why not pork? Is it because they're so cute? I wouldn't like to meet the pigs our pigs' ears are coming from! Not cute!

I personally like variety, so I feed every type of raw meat that I can get my hands on.
Click to expand...

I have been reliabley informed that the chicken carcass thing is bullturd...it used to be the case because the chickens eaten were old. Young chickens that are slaughtered at around the 16week mark in our food chain nowadays have soft bones...they dont splinter when cooked.
 
Vizslak said:
I have been reliabley informed that the chicken carcass thing is bullturd...it used to be the case because the chickens eaten were old. Young chickens that are slaughtered at around the 16week mark in our food chain nowadays have soft bones...they dont splinter when cooked.
Click to expand...

Not wishing to cause controversy, but how can anyone be guaranteed of that? I bought a trio of chickens today from Tesco and the OH butchered them. He whinged that they were old as the meat was fibrous. He used to work in Sun Valley so he sort of knows his stuff.

After my friend's experience of losing her dobie last year, I really would not take that kind of risk.
 
you can tell if the bones are splintering before you feed to a dog though? To be fair, if the chicken is old or even cooked to long then yea very dangerous. But you can tell that before you feed. I have fed chicken carcass to my dogs before, not often but I have.
 
I forgot to mention if the carcass is dry and splintery you can boil it down and soften the bones that way (and always remove those horrid little thin bones on the legs, whatever they are called.) Its all risks with everything though isnt it, yea your dog could choke on a chicken bone, it could choke on lots of things though, it could also get salmonella from a raw chicken bone......
:p I'm just on the wind up tonight ;)
 
I think the modern broiler bird which has to finish in a short time is beggered with breaking its legs .This is due to the sudden growth spurt and the bones being so soft it cannot support itself.
 
cinammontoast said:
Alec, seriously, cooked chicken carcasses?! Please tell me no! That's really dangerous!.......
Click to expand...

I'm now 65 years old, and certainly for the last 40 years, I can't remember one chicken carcass which has gone into the bin! I'd guess that there would have been several thousand, and I've never had a mishap of any sort. I know of others who also feed, as I do, without any ill effect. I honestly believe that the fear over cooked chicken carcasses, to be an old wives tale.

Regarding pork, I realise that poultry and game are also omnivorous, but I don't feel comfortable feeding one, in part, meat eating creature to another! I realise that there's little logic to it, but I just don't do it!

Do you remember the BSE scare? Well at the time the feed companies were sourcing protein from cattle remains, and putting it back in to cattle feed. Now I realise that cattle are true vegetarians, but protein can be added from the most questionable sources, and all so often is. If it bothers us, then it pays to check, I suppose.

Alec.
 
I agree with Alec in a way. I mean we're told not to feed scraps and it's not good for them but as a child all our dogs were fed scraps and none of them ever needed to go the Vet, they all lived to a ripe old age too.

I admit to feeding mine left overs when there is any!, we don't eat rubbish nor does he.
 
deicinmerlyn said:
......I mean we're told not to feed scraps and it's not good for them .....
Click to expand...

Really? Says who? Would it be those who manufacture and or sell packaged dog feed? ;)

I don't know about others, but my dogs seem to take a delight in eating putrefying meat, and all sorts of disgusting things, especially puppies, the filthy little toads! It never seems to do them any harm, except when I scold them!!

Alec.
 
Alec ,feeding a cooked chook carcase would really worry me;however,I can remember the family mongrel in the fifties and sixties crunching up cooked remains of every Sunday lunch..and he lived to fifteen.
What with the the chook carcases (RAW) and the butchers leftovers and bones my dogs probably get more of a fifty/fifty ratio in their overall fed. Cannot abide that Dr John`s ,would never feed that.However the Ashford Valley pack is fed on it..and they`re fast and look well. Maybe they have exceptional constitutions!!:D
 
Do we over think nowadays. Mums rescue JR was about a year old when we found her and she had her for 17 years and fed her tinned dog food.

My friend's collie x died at age 18 and she also fed her tinned dog food.

Both of them were healthy dogs obviously as they got older they slowed down a lot but it speaks volumes as to how they hadnt suffered illnesses due to their diet.

Obviously not much nutritional information was around 15 years + ago so they thought they were feeding what was the correct diet for a dog.

Also the breeding and how these older dogs were crosses (JR and collie x) must count for a lot.
 
Last edited:
EAST KENT said:
Cannot abide that Dr John`s ,would never feed that.However the Ashford Valley pack is fed on it..and they`re fast and look well. Maybe they have exceptional constitutions!!:D
Click to expand...

Why not? I've never heard of it before - did a google search to read about it. It sounds like it's a reputable food - so what's horrible about it? JUst curious really. :confused:
 
cinammontoast said:
.......Result! Am I famous?!:p
Click to expand...

Certainly you are!! However, knowing how quickly a thread disappears, on here, and considering Andy Warhols thoughts, it may only be for 15 minutes! :p:D

You've posed some interesting questions, which have prompted some equally interesting responses. We haven't all agreed with each other, on every point, but we've been civil!

The pet food industry is massive, that we know, and for me the interesting point which you've raised, is that we really should be aware of those additives, which are added.

Well done, a useful thread, but do bear in mind that Bakers aren't alone.

Alec.
 
I haven't read all this but I have a big big vote for Prize Choice :D

I tried to go raw 'properly' but it didn't really work for me. One of mine gets a very rumbly grumbly tummy if she has bones, and it really bothers her. Once she gets it she won't eat for a few days, she also won't eat offal or white fish. None of mine will eat veg in any shape or form!!!

I gave up after a while and ordered the posh things from Prize Choice, can't think what it's called now but it's their meat with added veg, vitamins etc. 2 of mine wouldn't touch it and the one that did often had a bad tummy which I can only blame on the veg.

As a last resort I tried Prize Choice meat only which my supplier calls the economy range! Because I have big dogs I buy the blocks rather than the mince and after hit & miss with a few flavours I've now found 3 flavours they all like so I stick with them.

It's really easy to do, I just defrost 3 blocks after every meal & it's ready for the next. A few meals a week they get fish, whether it's white fish from Prize Choice or tins of sardines, pilchards, salmon. Also a few times a week I add Prize Choice poultry necks for 2 of them.

They look great, no more upset tummies, better pooh and they eat it all :)
 
Alec Swan said:
Certainly you are!! However, knowing how quickly a thread disappears, on here, and considering Andy Warhols thoughts, it may only be for 15 minutes! :p:D

Well done, a useful thread, but do bear in mind that Bakers aren't alone.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Boo, it won't be stickied because I used a specific brand :(. I wanted to bring up this brand because of their huge ad campaign and the amount of people I see buying it. I think I mentioned here or on the other thread that any commercial food from a supermarket should be avoided. It's appalling how many of the foods are made by the same companies. :(
 
PucciNPoni said:
Why not? I've never heard of it before - did a google search to read about it. It sounds like it's a reputable food - so what's horrible about it? JUst curious really. :confused:
Click to expand...

:D:D Well,put it this way,they are hardly going to put on the sack/sales promotion "this is crap dog food" are they? Just don`t be gullible and believe everything you read.:D
 
Dobiegirl said:
I think the modern broiler bird which has to finish in a short time is beggered with breaking its legs .This is due to the sudden growth spurt and the bones being so soft it cannot support itself.
Click to expand...

Is`nt it 4lbs weight by six/seven WEEKS now?? Incredible what modern breeding has achieved as far as satisfying the need for cheap food goes.
 
Re 'we always fed our dogs x, y, and z and they lived long healthy lives'....

In the first few generations, I am sure certain foods went down just fine.
However the rates of allergies, UTIs, diabetes, stomach problems, anal problems and the number of dogs dying from bloat and torsion, particularly in my own breed, fit, young competition dogs, is soaring.
Dogs are carnivores - they should not get diabetes...their food should not contain anything which might give them diabetes.

Back in the day we fed something called Favour which I would not touch with a barge pole now, looks like horse feed with no recogniseable meat content. But our dog lived to 14 on it.
We also fed Winalot, which when you were my mother, after years of cutting and mincing raw green tripe, must have felt like a godsend.

But look at lots of food for human consumption - commodity prices go up, the main bulk of the ingredients becomes more and more filler and I believe that is happening with dog food as well. Meat content a few decades ago I am sure is not the same now.
Also the ban on bonemeal did not help.

I do believe that the accumulative feeding of *certain* foods over generations does have something to do with the unprecedented amount of allergies we are seeing in dogs.
We've kept GSDs for decades and had never heard of an allergy, until B came along and they seem to now be rife in many breeds.

Just some musings!
 
Last edited:
Today I went to Pets at Home for another toy (ball-onna-rope, lasted about 1 minute, before I managed to throw it into a fecking tree!), and somehow persuaded a man clutching a box of Bakers to put it back and get some Prize Choice frozen blocks instead. Really didnt mean to but - do I get brownie points? ;)
 
paisley said:
Today I went to Pets at Home for another toy (ball-onna-rope, lasted about 1 minute, before I managed to throw it into a fecking tree!), and somehow persuaded a man clutching a box of Bakers to put it back and get some Prize Choice frozen blocks instead. Really didnt mean to but - do I get brownie points? ;)
Click to expand...

Gold star I would have thought, well done!
 
EAST KENT said:
Is`nt it 4lbs weight by six/seven WEEKS now?? Incredible what modern breeding has achieved as far as satisfying the need for cheap food goes.
Click to expand...

Yes thats what I heard and free range use the same breed of bird but they take longer to finish. Makes a mockery of the whole welfare thing really.

All the people that feed raw do you fast your dogs one day a week? when I worked for a hunt hounds always had a fast day on Sunday. They are also doing this in zoos fasting their carnivores. The logic I presume is no wild animal could catch prey 7days a week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top