Ban nosebands!

Perhaps better to ban those who don't know what they are doing from choosing tack for horses? The level of ignorance displayed by some people who consider themselves to be "horse people" is staggering!
 
Goldenstar said:
We could ban people who want to ban people from doing things .
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And then we could also ban the people who wanted to ban the people who want to ban the people for doing things :D We could set up an independent agency to oversee all the bans...bags I chairperson :D (sorry, it's hot and I am at work!)
 
Surely just about ANY piece of tack or training aid can be misused? Why pick on the noseband specifically?
I personally think that proper education is what's needed. Sadly we live in a "quick fix" society and people rely too much on gadgets instead of rectifying training issues.
 
On a more serious note – when has “banning” things worked? An honest man never cuts through a padlock and all that? Drugs are illegal and there are plenty of people willing to break the law in spite of this. Making things illegal stops law abiding people doing them. “Banning” nosebands (and I’d be interested to see how you propose to police such a ban) will just prevent the more sensible of the equine fraternity using them, and they are the ones who are more likely to use them properly. Your argument (if you could call it that) is rubbish.
 
BogTrotter said:
How does this work please?
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If a horse lands on it's face with it's mouth open the upper and lower would possibly part ways and therefore breaking the jaw.

A loose crank i think is far better than a cavesson as it allows for pressure to be balanced across the jaw/cheeks.

I have one who would probably happily go without a noseband (currently wears a cavesson) and the other would categorically not having tried and tried with her to go without but she seems far happier with and happily schools/competes at a good level in all disciplines in a snaffle and loose crank.

Any tack cn be misused in the wrong hands, rather than a ban there should be an opportunity to educate!
 
Equine_Dream said:
Why not chuck the bridle alltogether and use the ears like a pair of joy sticks ��
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Would a neckstrap be permitted?
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In all seriousness on this horse I do not use a noseband except in competition, and then only because I have to, although I have not ridden without a bridle with a bit for a couple of years now. I prefer the convenience of a bridle. It is also necessary if I want to ride on the road, for safety.

I did have a mare that had much more tack (gag, martingale and flash)as she was rather strong XC. It was that mare who launched me forwards to get better educated, as tack proved not to be the answer. If the tighter tack had worked I suspect I would not have sought training as wholeheartedly.

To me, to change it, there would be more made of a tack check, to ensure nosebands were not excessively tightened, just as bits can be checked. Once that "quick fix" was removed then there would be more incentive to turn to more training to overcome issues.

Just as fat horses being marked down will improve the health of some showing horses, and elimination for rollkur in the collecting ring would see the end of that too.
 
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I think people are interpreting your post a little too literally and are getting unnecessarily sarcastic for some reason, DD. However, I can see the point you are making and querying and it's good to question ourselves. For what it's worth, none of my horses go better in nose bands, but I can see a reason to question those whose horses mouths are strapped tightly shut, rather than try to develop their riding and training aids.
 
Didn't the Fairfax research show that a correctly fitted crank noseband actually created fewer pressure points than a plain cavessson? Something about it being less fixed and better able to conform to the shape of the horse's head? And isn't there some recent research showing grackles are a lot more comfortable than they've ever been given credit for? I had rather assumed that is what was behind the recent changes in FEI and BD rules.

Oh if only I could remember where I had read stuff I could possibly engage in a reasoned and informed debate!
 
booandellie said:
i don't use a noseband, i think it's just an extra thing on my tack to clean that serves no purpose. I think alot of today's tack is about how it looks rather than for purpose and the more the better in some folks view. As long as they are fitted correctly why ban them or you should also ban bits, whips and spurs and other training aids. I do hate to see horses with their mouths strapped shut though and 'tied' down with umpteen leather straps but that seems to be almost normal in horsey society today moreso with those that compete in my opinion. It's all about quick fix than true horsemanship
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Well articulated.
 
Micropony said:
Didn't the Fairfax research show that a correctly fitted crank noseband actually created fewer pressure points than a plain cavessson? Something about it being less fixed and better able to conform to the shape of the horse's head? And isn't there some recent research showing grackles are a lot more comfortable than they've ever been given credit for? I had rather assumed that is what was behind the recent changes in FEI and BD rules.

Oh if only I could remember where I had read stuff I could possibly engage in a reasoned and informed debate!
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I believe so ,the grackle came very well through the pressure testing which is logical to me as its my experiance that a well fitted grackle is accepted happily by most horses .
I have one horse who loves the fairfax drop hybrid type nose and he's a caveson wearer normally but took so much better contact in the fairfax drop.
I don't know if the fairfax grackle is out yet ( there's one coming ) I will be fascinated to see what they do with that .
 
Goldenstar said:
I believe so ,the grackle came very well through the pressure testing which is logical to me as its my experiance that a well fitted grackle is accepted happily by most horses .
I have one horse who loves the fairfax drop hybrid type nose and he's a caveson wearer normally but took so much better contact in the fairfax drop.
I don't know if the fairfax grackle is out yet ( there's one coming ) I will be fascinated to see what they do with that .
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Well that does reassure me that I didn't dream it, and that premature senility isn't quite setting in just yet!
 
I have no problem with the use of correctly fitted nosebands, whatever they are. I have a lot of issues with some notable event riders in particular, whose horses have nosebands that are so tight their faces are literally squashed up round them, and then bizarrely they use nasal strips to, um, help them breathe ..................
 
Red-1 said:
Would a neckstrap be permitted?
IMG_5347b_edited-2_zps06582feb.jpg


In all seriousness on this horse I do not use a noseband except in competition, and then only because I have to, although I have not ridden without a bridle with a bit for a couple of years now. I prefer the convenience of a bridle. It is also necessary if I want to ride on the road, for safety.

I did have a mare that had much more tack (gag, martingale and flash)as she was rather strong XC. It was that mare who launched me forwards to get better educated, as tack proved not to be the answer. If the tighter tack had worked I suspect I would not have sought training as wholeheartedly.

To me, to change it, there would be more made of a tack check, to ensure nosebands were not excessively tightened, just as bits can be checked. Once that "quick fix" was removed then there would be more incentive to turn to more training to overcome issues.

Just as fat horses being marked down will improve the health of some showing horses, and elimination for rollkur in the collecting ring would see the end of that too.
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i think that they are now checking the tightness of nosebands at dressage comps and it looked like they were checking today at the olympics, so a step in the right direction..
 
I'm of the opinion that nose bands are no more abusive then any other form of tack. I have often not bothered to use them. The fact they can be misused needs to be addressed along with all types of abuse. The perpetrators need to be dealt with severely. It brings our sport in to the spotlight for the wrong reasons.
 
Whilst we were in Spain 5 years ago I learned that they have a noseband, the likes of which I hope never to see again. It had a series of metal spikes, rather like a farrier's hoof file, on the inside!
The idea was that a pulling horse would feel the sharp prods and ease back to a comfortable pace. The reality was that pulling horses just ignored it and came back in with blood flowing down their faces, having learned nothing.
 
I withdrew my horse from a pole work lesson at a riding club training day after being told that I should (a) lift my horse's bit up in his mouth to show two creases; and (b) have a noseband. I queried this and was told it was compulsory in the rules! I queried this with BRC (British Riding Clubs - now part of the BHS) and was told that the rules only apply to competitions and riding club training day rules are down to the individual riding club's own rules. However, how fair is that - if I was a riding club I would likely use the same rules for training days as competitions so that everyone was aware of the rules. When I asked BRC on what grounds nosebands were compulsory, I was told it was down to safety - maybe on the hunting field, but in a dressage arena at riding club level?!?! I then asked about why there were no guidelines as to how tight a noseband should be but received a very non-committal response of it being the responsibility of the steward. So, there it goes, the BHS (and BRC), who are supposed to be about the welfare of the horse, don't care and in fact promote the use of nosebands (by making it compulsory for the horse to have one when competing) and are also not producing guidelines as to type and tightness!! I have been told I am cutting off my nose to spite my face (appropriate, don't you think) to no longer attend training days, club days or compete my horse! Even if I choose not to ride my horse with a noseband (its just decoration after all!), I have no issues with others riding with them, provided they are fitted correctly and not used for fashion (because everyone else does) or to keep the horse from 'evading' the bit or hand, which it wouldn't need to do, if ridden correctly by someone with good hands!
 
those that say that cranks are better than a plain cavesson is that just because of the padding rather than the crank fastening mechanism?

Fwiw I have done the no noseband thing for sometime now, mostly because it is less to clean. Also because I use a curb strap with a dutch gag for hacking and it leaves that free to sit wherever. :p It goes on for hunting etc though.
 
Downton Dame said:
so everyone thinks its ok to strap its mouth tight shut? Isnt this cruel?
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Whilst I actually agree with you in a way - I have very rarely used any noseband other than a plain cavesson, however with my current horse I have found a Rambo Micklem (which has a drop type noseband built into it) to be very useful purely because it seems to keep the bit still in the mouth somehow, I do not however do it up tightly - my horse can easily open her mouth if she wanted to, its just flush to the skin but I can easily put a finger under it. What I hate to see is tight flashes/grackles/drops - and those awful Crank nosebands. So yeah, I dont believe strapping a horses mouth shut is kind, but in some cases thats not always whats happening if its not done up tightly - does that make sense? Probably not but it works for me!

In my opinion, I think our tack in general is pretty outdated. Bridles have barely changed over the years. I'm keen on things like the Micklem which have actually attempted to improve comfort on the horses head and remove pressure from sensitive points etc. but really in this day and age I think this sort of thing should be far wider available.
 
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Downton Dame said:
so everyone thinks its ok to strap its mouth tight shut? Isnt this cruel?
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One of mine wears a flash noseband. If I didn't his head would be cocked to the right, his jaw locked and he'd tank off every time he gets excited. With a flash (and a loose one at that) he keeps his mouth shut and his rider safe. There is no medical reason for him doing this, just pure excitement! So no, it isn't cruel. Do you think girths are cruel too? How about the actual bit, nice piece of metal between the teeth...
 
Becca2403 said:
One of mine wears a flash noseband. If I didn't his head would be cocked to the right, his jaw locked and he'd tank off every time he gets excited. With a flash (and a loose one at that) he keeps his mouth shut and his rider safe. There is no medical reason for him doing this, just pure excitement! So no, it isn't cruel. Do you think girths are cruel too? How about the actual bit, nice piece of metal between the teeth...
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We use a flash for jumping, without it he tanks off with excitement after the fence and the flash brings him back quickly. It's not done up tightly but enough to stop him evading the bit. I think it's much less cruel then the alternative of lots of pressure in his mouth.

Yes, schooling will improve him and I hope to be able to remove the flash eventually but I think for now, it's better for him then having a fight!
 
ester said:
those that say that cranks are better than a plain cavesson is that just because of the padding rather than the crank fastening mechanism?.
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I think the padding was part of it but that it was mainly due to the rings at the side that you thread the back strap through, which allow it to conform to the shape of the horse's head more comfortably and distribute pressure more evenly. I can see the point actually. I am sure the research was on properly fitted cranks though, not the absurdly tight ones that everyone objects to. It's annoying me now so I have googled it. This is what I was half-remembering:

http://www.fairfaxsaddles.com/bridles/bridle-testing-and-design

Would be interested in what your scientific brain thinks of that Ester? Is it just sales guff to flog £500 bridles or is it proper science?
 
I think people who do/use anything excessively need to be re-educated, but a blanket ban on something is stupid, especially when there are a fair amount of horses out there with need for certain things, like my gelding with his flash. I think rather than claiming its cruel to use them, claim its cruel to MISuse them.
 
debserofe said:
When I asked BRC on what grounds nosebands were compulsory, I was told it was down to safety - maybe on the hunting field, but in a dressage arena at riding club level?!?!
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Reading this, I am reminded of that video of Penelope Leprevost where her horse trips in the warm-up arena. The horse goes down to its knees, nose on the ground: exactly the situation where a horse might break its jaw.

It's more likely to happen jumping/hunting due to the nature of the exercise, but not impossible in other disciplines especially if the horse is being encouraged to work long and low.
 
I have a plain cavasson noseband on my mare only because we are aiming to compete at dressage and it's in the rules. Otherwise, because I'm lazy when it comes to tack cleaning, I'd not use one at all.

Nosebands, training aids, etc etc etc all have they're place, in the right educated hands.

What is a bigger issue I feel, is folk looking for a quick fix, rushing and using gadgets instead of taking the time to do things correctly.
 
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