Bare foot, not working for me :(

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thatsmygirl

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Iv had my tb and daughters pony shoeless now for a couple off months and it has got worst not better. They seem to cope without back shoes but not fronts. The diet is ok and iv had the feet looked at for thrush and the farrier hasn't taken anything off the feet at all but they are walking very footy and no better in boots. Tbh iv never seen them so unhappy and ears back so I'm afraid to say shoes have gone back on the fronts and they are back to their happy self. It's a shame as I really wanted it to work but i can't seem to get my lot to be happy like it :(
 
I'm not sure from your post whether you just want commiserations in shoeing again or some help to work out why it didn't work for you. You have done the right thing to shoe, but if you want to try again, here are the questions:

When you say that the diet was OK, what were you feeding them?

Have you had any analysis of your grazing and forage, because many areas are too high in iron and manganese and those prevent the absorption of copper and that prevents the proper use of insulin and that results in soft weak feet with sensitive soles.

Did you feed yeast and magnesium oxide, which seem to help a lot with sensitivity?

Are either of them fat - be honest with yourself :) ! ?

Are they out 24/7 in all this wet ground? Lots of barefooters wouldn't cope with permanently wet feet.
 
That's sad. My TB was miserable as sin about it for the first week, and I almost had shoes back on, too. Then all of a sudden he was fine again. He loves it, now. Happier than he's been in a long while. Sounds like something's not right with yours, though, if it's gone on for months. If you can't figure out what's wrong then you have no option but to shoe, I agree.
 
A word of warning - I had my mare barefoot for nearly 2 years and was a real convert. Apart from being a bit footy on very stony ground she seemed to be ok until she got laminitus. When her feet were xrayed, the soles had worn so thin while she was barefoot that she was very sore. She had to have plastic shoes and specialist shoeing for months at great cost and it was a year before her soles had grown thick enough for her to be ridden again. She is now very susceptible to bouts of laminitus from concussion as well as grazing. I would NEVER have a horse barefoot again!
 
Dont beat yourself up OP, barefoot isn't for every horse. We have a combination of barefoot horses and some who are shod on the fronts only. It works for them which means it works for us.
 
vanessarimmer said:
A word of warning - I had my mare barefoot for nearly 2 years and was a real convert. Apart from being a bit footy on very stony ground she seemed to be ok until she got laminitus. When her feet were xrayed, the soles had worn so thin while she was barefoot that she was very sore. She had to have plastic shoes and specialist shoeing for months at great cost and it was a year before her soles had grown thick enough for her to be ridden again. She is now very susceptible to bouts of laminitus from concussion as well as grazing. I would NEVER have a horse barefoot again!
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I am really sorry but only the most unobservant owner could possibly let a horse get into the state that you describe yours did. Did you never pick out her feet and check her soles? Did your farrier/trimmer never spot what was going on? Thin soles aren't difficult to find - you press them with your fingers and they bend.

The lami causes the thin soles, by the way, she'll have had the lami low grade for a very long time before you noticed it. That's what caused the footiness, and you needed to have sorted out the footiness and your horse would never have gone on to develop the desperately thin soles. They don't wear that thin, they grow that thin because of the diet, which is why it took a whole year, more than the length of time for an entire foot to regrow, for her gut to stabilise and allow her to produce a thicker sole.

Your horse's problems have been caused by lami, not by barefoot, which in susceptible horses like yours requires very great attention to diet for the horse not to be footie barefoot. If she still suffers from concussion laminitis then either her diet is still incorrect (and she may be a horse who simply cannot digest grass, they do exist) or she has an undetected metabolic disease like EMS, EPSM or Cushings. There is no reason after all this time why her attachment should not have recovered, no matter how it was caused.

Many people like to keep their lami susceptible horses barefoot because of the very very early warning that you get that something is going wrong, when they notice a stone one day that they would have ignored the day before.





Please, barefooters, if you have a horse which is footie on stones all year round, and not just after a touch too much grass, you need to find out why!
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I tried for ten months for my boy, it didn,t work out for him probably due to a old navicular fracture and bone spur so he went back in shoes, but he is now not so good in shoes so I am going to try him in epona shoes which I hope will be a good compromise as these are much kinder on the feet than steel!
 
maggiesmum said:
Sorry it didn't work, I agree though for them both to be footy and getting worse suggests something in the diet causing a problem.
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No it doesn't. It suggests that for this horse barefoot does not work, it could be diet, but it's more likely to be mechanical.

Really:o
 
amymay said:
You do understand, don't you, that not every horse will be happy barefoot???
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I understand that not everyone can provide or has the facilities to provide conditions that will enable a horse to go barefoot, however we've both done plenty of bare V shoe debates in the past and neither of us likely to change our opinion anytime soon so no point going there.

I was only pointing out that its far more likely to be a diet issue if 2 horses that live together are experiencing the same level of footiness and the farrier (assuming the same one trims both) isn't trimming either soles or frogs.
 
amymay said:
You do understand, don't you, that not every horse will be happy barefoot???
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The question is why, though.

Yes, if a horse is unhappy and the owner doesn't know why, shoes are the quickest way to provide comfort. We can all agree that horses should never be uncomfortable.

But I feel it's important to question why the horse is uncomfortable. It isn't enough for me to just accept that some horses are happy and some aren't.

After many years of looking into all this, I and others have found diet to be the biggest issue affecting horse's hooves.

Dr Pollitt's research into laminitis has found that weakening of the laminae happens even before the horse shows laminitic symptoms.
My feelings are that this is key to understand why some horses are comfortable and some aren't.
 
My new horse (TB - ex NH) has been barefoot for 2 years and i plan to keep him that way, we will see what happens.

For the time being he has remarkable feet, they are very hard and his hoof wall is very thick and soles are fine. Most farriers that have looked at his feet are gob smacked! ;-)

I have now had my old boys shoes taken off, he did a check ligament end of Nov so i thought id take them off as he was due the farrier. He has been shoeless for nearly 2 months now and the condition of his feet are lovely. The old shoe holes have almost grown out and i am now starting to walk him out for 10 mins a day with no problems.

I have a number of barefoot people on my yard and they have all told me the same........it can take upto a year before a horses feet become hard and take their natural shape after having shoes removed. Its not just a 5 min thing. The feet tend to get worse (breaking up etc) before they get better...but if you can get thru this then you wont look back.

I am really hoping not to have shoes on my old boy again, he will only be showing and doing Dressage. With the new boy we will have to see as my plans are to event him. I have read of many eventers who compete barefoot and the only time they have had to resort to shoeing is purely for grip - studs etc.

My TB is on a high fibre diet. He only has a double handful of HiFi Lite and a scoop of Pasture Cubes with Apple Cider Vinegar and ad-lib haylage. His weight is perfect but then i am lucky that he is a good doer :) My old boy is on the same but has Leisure Mix instead of Cubes and has Devils Relief and Superflex for his joints.
 
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cptrayes said:
I am really sorry but only the most unobservant owner could possibly let a horse get into the state that you describe yours did. Did you never pick out her feet and check her soles? Did your farrier/trimmer never spot what was going on? Thin soles aren't difficult to find - you press them with your fingers and they bend.

The lami causes the thin soles, by the way, she'll have had the lami low grade for a very long time before you noticed it. That's what caused the footiness, and you needed to have sorted out the footiness and your horse would never have gone on to develop the desperately thin soles. They don't wear that thin, they grow that thin because of the diet, which is why it took a whole year, more than the length of time for an entire foot to regrow, for her gut to stabilise and allow her to produce a thicker sole.

Your horse's problems have been caused by lami, not by barefoot, which in susceptible horses like yours requires very great attention to diet for the horse not to be footie barefoot. If she still suffers from concussion laminitis then either her diet is still incorrect (and she may be a horse who simply cannot digest grass, they do exist) or she has an undetected metabolic disease like EMS, EPSM or Cushings. There is no reason after all this time why her attachment should not have recovered, no matter how it was caused.

Many people like to keep their lami susceptible horses barefoot because of the very very early warning that you get that something is going wrong, when they notice a stone one day that they would have ignored the day before.





Please, barefooters, if you have a horse which is footie on stones all year round, and not just after a touch too much grass, you need to find out why!
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I wholeheartedly second this post. I'd like to add as well that horses with thin soles should have protection on stones or not go on stones.
Please people learn the basics in how to read your horses hooves.

At least you acted and they are comfortable thatsmygirl. :)
 
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amandap said:
I wholeheartedly second this post. I'd like to add as well that horses with thin soles should have protection on stones or not go on stones.
Please people learn the basics in how to read your horses hooves.

At least you acted and they are comfortable thatsmygirl. :)
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whole heartedly thirded too. :eek:
 
I would love to have all mine barefoot and have 3 bare foot and 3 with front shoes but bare behind. The 2 in question had suitable diets, the pony having Allen and page L mix which forms a mash ( cereal, molasses free and 3.75% starch) with half a cup off micro linseed, brewers yeast and mag oz with vit/min supplement. Weight wise he's right and can feel his ribs easily. The other was on a similar diet but with speedibeet and more linseed. I think the thing that doesn't help is how wet the field is. They are stabled at night so dry out. They seem fine with no backs and hopefully will keep this going but more than the footyness it's the temperment change I couldn't believe, the pony has never been so grumpy and unhappy and now back to ears forward and happy again. It's just a shame as I really wanted it to work for all my horses not just half, no I haven't had my grass etc tested because I felt I couldn't leave them so grumpy for any longer. But I must say I would like to try again some time but will prop get my grazing and hay etc tested before I do
 
thatsmygirl said:
I would love to have all mine barefoot and have 3 bare foot and 3 with front shoes but bare behind. The 2 in question had suitable diets, the pony having Allen and page L mix which forms a mash ( cereal, molasses free and 3.75% starch) with half a cup off micro linseed, brewers yeast and mag oz with vit/min supplement. Weight wise he's right and can feel his ribs easily. The other was on a similar diet but with speedibeet and more linseed. I think the thing that doesn't help is how wet the field is. They are stabled at night so dry out. They seem fine with no backs and hopefully will keep this going but more than the footyness it's the temperment change I couldn't believe, the pony has never been so grumpy and unhappy and now back to ears forward and happy again. It's just a shame as I really wanted it to work for all my horses not just half, no I haven't had my grass etc tested because I felt I couldn't leave them so grumpy for any longer. But I must say I would like to try again some time but will prop get my grazing and hay etc tested before I do
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I think you are 100% right.
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OK, some horses just don't adapt well to barefoot and the conditions of the terrain in which they live...

Also, THIS IS NOT AIMED AT THE POSTER. Can someone explain to me why diet is suddenly so important for barefoot horses? Surely before you decide to 'go barefoot' you should have your horses diet sorted, why do you only start to 'consider your horses diet' when yo 'go barefoot' when before it seems it was ignored completely?
 
The diet question is a difficult one once you have truly sorted sugar levels and mineral balance for that horse. Horses are individuals and what suits one may not suit another. I personally have found and believe that all compound feeds can be a risk to some horses. I think it's much easier to be as simple as possible using only a carrier for any minerals or other supplements along with adequate forage. Let's face it most horses don't need extra feeds at all and finding the right one can be a total nightmare if you have a sensitive horse. Many horses would be better off without any extra feed at all imo, so many are at grave risk from over feeding these days.
 
mik said:
OK, some horses just don't adapt well to barefoot and the conditions of the terrain in which they live...

Also, THIS IS NOT AIMED AT THE POSTER. Can someone explain to me why diet is suddenly so important for barefoot horses? Surely before you decide to 'go barefoot' you should have your horses diet sorted, why do you only start to 'consider your horses diet' when yo 'go barefoot' when before it seems it was ignored completely?
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Diet is important for horses - full stop. The niggles arrise when shoes are taken off and any lack with the diet becomes apparent when the horse is footy. This same diet would keep the horse happy and healthy when in shoes, but barefoot puts rather a magnifying glass on it - as posted above though, it makes it a very useful early warning system for lami and so is something to appreciate and not try to hide with shoes!

Much of our grazing is unbalanced and doesn't constitute a good complete diet for horses, so those with sensitive souls need to look more into it and so often get grazing analysed and supplement the diet based on this. This action can very often improve a footy horse and allow them to grow a better hoof.
 
mik said:
OK, some horses just don't adapt well to barefoot and the conditions of the terrain in which they live...

Also, THIS IS NOT AIMED AT THE POSTER. Can someone explain to me why diet is suddenly so important for barefoot horses? Surely before you decide to 'go barefoot' you should have your horses diet sorted, why do you only start to 'consider your horses diet' when yo 'go barefoot' when before it seems it was ignored completely?
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Because diet shortcomings become obvious when a horse is barefoot.
 
It didn't work for my current horse either.He was miserable, looked far happier the very minute that his shoes went back on.My old horse was fine bare foot.If it doesn't work for yours, don't worry just have him shod.
 
I think personally that you should be looking out for 'shortcomings' before you take of shoes, when you horses are shod each time it is easy to do sensitivity checks, etc

But hey, any improvement in a horses management, for whatever reason is good by me.
Shan't hijack the thread any more, but just to say I have had a lot of horses over the years, some with, some without shoes, from all disciplines. I have never had to feed a distinct diet due to shoe removal, I have only fed distinct diets for individual horses. But then I have always had hay, grass etc analysed and used a nutritionalist to support each horse.
 
Gosh this thread seems to be a lesson in how to patronise and make the OPn feel like a bad owner.

My horses are all unshod and I admit I do feed a low cereal/sugar/starch diet, BUT if one of my horses needed shoes, then they would have
them.

To infer that ALL horses can go barefoot smacks of fanaticism, the OP has said that the diet is OK, how on earth you people can tell her she is obviously not doing it right when you have not even seen the horse/pony and do not know what she feeds??????

Yes, YOUR horses may be doing OK but how about thinking outside the box - brace yourselves........................ each horse is different, each horse has different needs, a good horseperson knows this simple fact and adapts TO the horse the less than perfect horseperson ignores the clues their horse may be giving them and carries on in their own blinkered fashion because 'my way is the only good way' :rolleyes:

OP do not be made to feel guilty for recognising that your horses are not suiting the barefoot ethos.
 
Well done cptrayes for that post - barefoot doesnt cause thin soles, p!ss poor management and care however.......

Whilst I understand the natural yen to have your horse happy and comfy I fail to see how banging nails into an already compromised hoof, putting a rigid structure on something that is supposed to bend and flex (think about how your toes splay as you walk) and masking the problems that your horse is shouting at you he has, is the answer.

Yes the horse looks more comfortable, but its only skin deep as such , you havnt solved the issue of why he is uncomfortable to begin with!
 
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