Bare foot/unshod advice one horse is hopping the other seems not too bad

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englund

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Not by choice but circumstance I have decided to have 2 horses go unshod.

Shoes kept being pulled off so farrier has nowhere to nail shoes anymore. Farrier in my opinion did trim too much in first place as these are big dressage horses so need weight bearing hooves.

Every time shoes pulled off less and less hoof remained and poor horses very foot sore.

Farrier said leave until hooves grow back so he has space to nail on shoe. This happened two weeks ago, both horses are foot sore on hard ground but look sound in their fields. I cannot ride either as not sound in the school.

What is the usual process for these horses whilst their hooves grow out, should I see an improvement in the unsoundness or is it normal for them to stay foot sore on hard ground.

I would prefer to go through the process now as I cant have shoes put on even if I wanted to but I do not know what to expect.
 
Apparantly lots of dressage horses are going bare now, including some high profile ones, as they tend to do mostly arena work - it does sound as if shoeing isn't optimising this horse's feet.

Just wondered why the farrier wants to shoe at all? As all good farriers are only supposed to recommend shoeing if the horse needs it, and many farriers instead reccomend barefoot trimming. Shoes are really described as "a necessary evil" by most farriers!

I had my horse de shod when I got him and he took quite a while to become happy on rough ground, and forward going on hard ground - as the hooves take a while to rehabilitate from being shod and it sounds as if your horses' feet are not in a good way.

In my humble experience you need to allow a year for the feet to 'grow out', many horses take less time, and a few a while longer, but that's how long my horse took.

I'd suggest using hoof boots with pads in while yours are rehabbing, I initially had boots on in the field too for a week or two after de shoeing, until he was feeling comfier. (You could use for turn out and gentle arena work for now?)

Then I just used them for hacking.

Not all farriers are knowledgeable about the dietary requirements of the newly de shod horse, eg you will find sugars may make them footsore (carrots, too much grass, mollased licks, cereals etc), so a metabolically balanced diet will help the soreness.

Plus lots of people are now mineral balancing, eg finding out their hay's mineral content and adding minerals to balance it (as opposed to giving generic balancer/supplement). This helps the newly de shod horse rehabilitate from shoes as 'the feet are windows to the gut'. You will find that diet affects soundness almost immediately.

Once they're sound and comfier you may not want to go back to shoes anyway if they are dressage horses - you could keep up with boots?

Good luck, it is a tricky journey, and loads of people will try and influence you - the key things are finding the right hoofcare professional, & getting the diet right, IMHO.
 
Oberon said:
Do you have any pics of the hooves?

And what are they eating?
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I dont have any pictures to hand but the hooves have been badly damaged by the shoes being ripped off.

Their hooves were never this bad until I moved to another area and had to change my farrier.

They are out from 9am - 7pm on good grazing, soft ground. Stabled thereafter with ad lib hay.

The only feed they get is Mollichaff Apple about 2 handfulls each A.M and P.M as they are not working at present and hold their weight very well. Infact one of them holds it too well.
 
My flar work horse will have been BF a year in October He doing very well now but it does take time to get them right and I started with his feet whole as he has been turned away.
I would keeping going now you have started but would advise you invest in some boots for their front feet as these will allow you to start some work with them.
I would also advise reading up on the BF thinking as this has helped me to optimise my management.
 
It can be the best part of a year for feet to grow through and damage to be repaired, but this depends on the horse - different feet grow at different rates. Whether or not they remain foot sore will depend on their foot conformation, for example whether the soles are flat or concave. Barefoot horses are not simply horses without shoes, they are horses whose feet are trimmed carefully and specifically with 'barefootedness' and soundness in mind.
 
englund said:
I dont have any pictures to hand but the hooves have been badly damaged by the shoes being ripped off.

Their hooves were never this bad until I moved to another area and had to change my farrier.

They are out from 9am - 7pm on good grazing, soft ground. Stabled thereafter with ad lib hay.

The only feed they get is Mollichaff Apple about 2 handfulls each A.M and P.M as they are not working at present and hold their weight very well. Infact one of them holds it too well.
Click to expand...

Apple Chaff looks ideal....until you see 'coated in a unique low sugar dressing' (:confused:) and then you scan the specs and see 17 - 22% sugar :eek::eek::eek:
http://www.friendshipestates.co.uk/mollichaff/mollichaff-applechaff/detailed-product-flyer.html

The 'good grazing' will be plenty full of sugar as it is - then you are adding more in a bucket.

Usual recommendation is never to feed anything in a bucket more than 10% sugar and starch combined. Certainly nothing molassed or 'Mogolo' or any other sugar derivative.

For good doers, I would be bucket feeding ONLY in order to provide minerals if needed. Otherwise - just forage would be sufficient.

When you say the hoof has been badly damaged - I would be interested to see the damage.

Shod hooves have a tendency to be longer than nature would prefer - 'terrible damage' and 'hooves ripped apart' often means the hoof is as short as an unshod/barefoot one actually wants to be.
It's just much shorter than most people are used to :).

I would be very surprised if the damage extended into the internal structures - rather I imagine it's all localised to poorly connected wall that looks scary, but has little consequence in terms of structure and mechanics :).
 
OBERON - I will try and take picks tonight. You seem to know what you are talking about I will stop the apple chaff and use hi fibre lite for the one who needs it and just pop a small amount as a token for the good doer.

One of the horses when the shoes came off had very hot hooves when he came in from the field but this morning they were normal to touch.
 
englund said:
OBERON - I will try and take picks tonight. You seem to know what you are talking about I will stop the apple chaff and use hi fibre lite for the one who needs it and just pop a small amount as a token for the good doer.

One of the horses when the shoes came off had very hot hooves when he came in from the field but this morning they were normal to touch.
Click to expand...

Side view FROM THE GROUND and sole view, please.
 
englund said:
hi fibre lite
Click to expand...

Great name: Only it isn't really - Ingredients: Cereal Straw, Alfalfa, Molasses, Mould Inhibitor.

englund said:
One of the horses when the shoes came off had very hot hooves when he came in from the field but this morning they were normal to touch.
Click to expand...

This is very common in the newly deshod horse - probably a symptom of the improved circulation now the shoes are off.

Most bare hooves are much warmer than most shod hooves on a day to day basis.
 
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englund said:
I cannot ride either as not sound in the school.
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Englund this is not normal. The vast majority of horses newly out of shoes would work fine on a modern dressage arena surface, even with large amount of hoof wall missing. . What surface do you have?

Did your farrier trim the sole and/or frogs when he trimmed? He should not have, and you do say that you think he trimmed too much. If it is this, your horses will be happy to work in the arena in a few days, and you should do as much work as they can cope with because the movement will make them grow faster feet.

The nutrition advice that you are getting from other posters is good so I won't add to it except to say that I would never be without yeast and magnesium oxide.
 
englund said:
I dont have any pictures to hand but the hooves have been badly damaged by the shoes being ripped off.

Their hooves were never this bad until I moved to another area and had to change my farrier.

They are out from 9am - 7pm on good grazing, soft ground. Stabled thereafter with ad lib hay.

The only feed they get is Mollichaff Apple about 2 handfulls each A.M and P.M as they are not working at present and hold their weight very well. Infact one of them holds it too well.
Click to expand...
Having them on hay is a great idea as what they need is hi fibre, lo sugar, supplemented mins and vits plus 50gms micronised linseed meal. If fatty need to lose weight soak the hay for a few hours, but make sure he still gets plenty of mins and vits.
You can try them on Fast Fibre, with a non molassed chaff [Dengie] and maybe Hoof Builder from Equimins.
No molassed chaff, no bagged feeds full of cereals, starch and moglo.
Ask a farrier to come every three or four weeks to keep edges rounded as they will chip and this needs to be controlled.
Try walking in hand on smooth tarmac.
I use a small brass wire brush to clean frogs and soles
Buy Feet First [ essential reading for all horse owners]
 
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