BARE FOOT?

[coen]

I have had to leave my horse without shoe's as he has become impossible with farrier. He only had front shoes on anyway and has good feet.

I wanted to know what I should do to look after his feet.
Also what are the advantages/disadvantages of barefoot.

Also if barefoot is going well then what are the reasons people decide to put shoes back on?

I intended to go back to front shoes when he becomes more comfortable with farrier but is there any need. I hardly do roadwork.

 

[Geraldine]

I've just taken Bob's fronts off as were are hardly doing anything at the moment.

My farrier is registered with UKNHCP, have a look at their website.

 

[MagicMelon]

Do you mean proper "barefoot" or simply unshod? As they are very different trims. My retired ponies are trimmed by a barefoot trimmer and they're doing fine. I did have one of mine unshod (ie. trimmed by a farrier, just no shoes put on) but eventually had to put shoes on so I could put in studs for competing. If I didnt compete, then I would have all of mine barefoot.

 

[coen]

Well im not sure, can you please explain the difference?

In summer I took his shoes off for a while and had a farrier do a trim when needed but they did chip at the front and I put them back on as I was doing roadwork.

I do intend to compete him this summer but it will only be to local shows for him to get gain experience so wouldn't need studs.

Do you need to add any supplements to help e.g. biotin?

 

[kittykatcat]

There are lots of different 'methods' of barefoot trimming, however i use a natural hoof care practitioner. THey base their work on the hooves of wild horses and incorporate things such as the 'mustang roll' into their work. Most farrier trims (although probably wildly generalising here) trim off the excess and make the hoof look 'pretty', even if the hoof isnt actually shaped lilke that at all. Natural hoof care practitioners aim to mimic the horse walking for 20 miles or so as they would do in the wild. I love it - would never go back to shoes. I guess the only flaw i have found is hoof boots - one of my horses is slightly pigeon toed so they seem to twist round and fall off. Thankfully he doesnt actually need any protection and is quite happy crunching along on the roughest ground....and i suppose if you needed studs in....

 

[sally2008]

[ QUOTE ]
Most farrier trims (although probably wildly generalising here) trim off the excess and make the hoof look 'pretty', even if the hoof isnt actually shaped lilke that at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is in no way meant to be argumentative but yes, that is a a bit of a sweeping generalisation. The trim a farrier (well enlightened ones anyway!) does when the foot is going to receive a shoe is totally different from that done if the horse is barefoot.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

One of mine is unshod. My farrier trims his feet. I wouldn't let anyone other than a qualified and registered farrier within 100 yards of my horses feet.

These trimmer people are not farriers, have not been through the 4 years of training that farriers have. They have no regulatory body and can say they are trimmers after doing a very short course on it.
Mine has perfect feet and I put it down to the care given by my farrier.

I am a firm believer in the saying 'no foot, no horse' and would never take any chances with mine.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Biotin is a good start, as you need plenty of healthy hoof growth. I also feed black sunflower seeds (bought by the sack from a feed merchant) as it is said they have properties that help. My mare is on these and seems to do very well.

Also I'd get your farrier to show you how to rasp his feet as you'll then be equiped to take off any rough edges and flares between trims and this will help prevent the chipping. This should also ensure his feet grow nice and evenly as you'll be able to control any excess wear on one side by levelling it out.

Eucalyptus oil has a hardening effect and I used it during my mare's transition period by dabbing a few drops onto her soles every other day.

Personally I don't buy this barefoot/unshod distinction. A good trim is a good trim whether done by a farrier or a barefoot specialist. If you're happy with how your farrier balances your horse's feet then I'd stick with him. If not then look at a barefoot trimmer. Just make sure he doesn't cut the frog back too keenly. I prefer more of a pad, whereas my farrier likes a nice tidy frog a la shod horse.

It took a year for my horse to truely adapt to her barefootedness but she did have problem feet so hopefully it won't take your horse so long to become fully comfortable. She now happily does roadwork on a weekly basis.
Hope this helps!

 

[sally2008]

My farrier quoted some very interesting statistics to me recently regarding barefoot trimmers.

On average, an apprentice farrier will trim or be involved in the trimming of at least 5 horses a day (20 feet). If he's at work 4 days a week and at college for 1 day a week, takes 4 weeks holiday a year then he's trimming 80 feet a week for 48 weeks, which is equals 3,840 feet a year. Over 4 years of qualification that's 15,360 feet.

To get a professional qualification in barefoot trimming (and don't forget that not all of them bother) you only need to trim 48 feet. Hmmmm, food for thought indeed!

 

[MagicMelon]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you need to add any supplements to help e.g. biotin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on your horses hooves. If they're in good condition then they should be able to cope perfectly well without shoes. If they are weak and chip easily etc. then a supplement would be useful (but then the same would apply if he was shod as shoeing can cause lots of problems for a horse with bad hooves). None of mine have ever needed a hoof-specific supplement.

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
One of mine is unshod. My farrier trims his feet. I wouldn't let anyone other than a qualified and registered farrier within 100 yards of my horses feet.

These trimmer people are not farriers, have not been through the 4 years of training that farriers have. They have no regulatory body and can say they are trimmers after doing a very short course on it.
Mine has perfect feet and I put it down to the care given by my farrier.

I am a firm believer in the saying 'no foot, no horse' and would never take any chances with mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, I wouldn't allow anyone without qualifications near my horse with a rasp, pinchers and knife...seriously the long term damage they can do is scarey.

Then again I don't get a crystal healer out when my horse has a sore leg, I get a vet. Different stroke for different folks and all that.

To the OP if your horse have good feet and are happy and sound without shoes then keep them that way, just think of the money you can save

if the horse is suffering in anyway then you either need to adapt the surroundings and diet to try to fix it or put the shoes back on.

I can't be doing with footie barefoots who are 'transitioning' fair enough for the first few days but after that you're horse is just in pain and you're allowing it to stay that way.

 

[Dovorian]

My experience is severly limited, however I know of 3 horses (all well cared for and in good condition) who are barefoot and have their feet cared for by a barefoot specialist who I think comes to Kent from the West Country (as he is so specialised I guess). All 3 horses are sore once off an arena surface, it puts me off, but I acknowledge I know little about the mustang trimming etc.

 

[coen]

Umm.... very confusing this debate between barefeet specialists and farriers, as with anything I am sure both have their pro's and con's but I will try the traditional farrier first and if that doesn't go well try a bfs, but surely a basic trim cannot differ that greatly? Shame there isn't a farrier who is also a bfs in my area.

Thanks to OrangeEmpire for the handy tips I will definately give those a try.

So hoof boots, are they only used for road work?

My horse doesn't seem to be finding it any trouble at the moment, possibly a little careful on stony ground but thats it.

Why then does the majority of the horse world shoe there horses? Ok studs for competition and heavy roadwork but couldn't that be overcome?
Surely there must be more to it.

 

[Hippona]

[ QUOTE ]
One of mine is unshod. My farrier trims his feet. I wouldn't let anyone other than a qualified and registered farrier within 100 yards of my horses feet.

These trimmer people are not farriers, have not been through the 4 years of training that farriers have. They have no regulatory body and can say they are trimmers after doing a very short course on it.
Mine has perfect feet and I put it down to the care given by my farrier.

I am a firm believer in the saying 'no foot, no horse' and would never take any chances with mine.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well said.

Mine are a mixture of fully shod, shoes on fronts only and I have had unshod horses in the past. Whatever they need, my farrier does.....and he's happy to leave them shoeless if they are not needing them.

BTW...I refer to horses without shoes as unshod, not barefoot....because they don't have bare feet, they have hooves

 

[coen]

You must have a decent farrier.
Unfortunately not all are so honest so I would like to improve my knowledge.

What are the reasons for shoeing your horses, allround, in front.

Im just curious as this unshod thing is a new consideration for me as my old tb mare had bad feet and needed remedial shoeing.

 

[stilltrying]

I am sure there are good and bad trimmers, just as there are good and bad farriers....

Mine actually ended up barefoot by default...he wasn't doing much work and kept pulling his fronts off, so I trialled taking hinds off (by the farrier) with a view to taking fronts off if he coped. I barely noticed a difference to be honest. However 6 weeks later I was greeted by the sight no one wants to see...horse in field on 3 legs. Thankfully it wasn't the un-thinkable, he had ripped off both fronts (newly shod), taking most of his hoof with them, and then stood on the toe clip with his barefoot hind slicing open his sole. Big ouch.

I decided to keep him without shoes, firstly to let his hooves recover, they were rectangular for about 3 months where he'd removed so much of the side. He actually coped surprisingly well considering he is a big horse (17h mw) so I decided to get the opinion of a natural hoofcare practitioner to see if she thought we'd manage longer term.

Its now a year since he ripped the fronts off and he does very well. His hooves changed angle, got a lot wider and his frogs are much fatter. Alround his feet look healthier. He is only footy over very stoney ground, and successfully did a couple of sponsored rides in the summer without any soreness.

We did used to compete and whilst I dont plan to in the near future, if I did I would probably put shoes back on so I could stud up, as we did have a very unfortunate fall in the spring when he skidded over on a cross country course. Could have been lack of grip due to barefoot, could have just been him as he has skidded over before with shoes.

Oh and not sure if anyone has mentioned food but that plays a big part in the management....I switched to a high fibre, low sugar diet and that got rid of any footiness.

 

[AngieandBen]

Just had my ponies shoes off today

I'm gobsmacked that he can walk and trot up the road ( took him just for a minute to see what he was like)without being footy, I'm so chuffed, he's had shoes on for 15 years!!!

Got my pen, paper and tape measure ready to order some hoof boots, then the hunt came down the road, so I gave up until tomorrow!

I had a new farrier today, and he was so nice and kind, exlpained what he was doing and why and took his time trimming and rounding his hooves, so good day for me

 

[Hippona]

My poofy gelding has/had poor foot conformation when I got him....he wasnt wearing shoes and improved dramatically when shod...over the years my farrier has improved his long-ted low heeled foot no end...but I would rather not try without shoes as I can see how much better they are now.

The one which is shod in front only was un-shod when we got him, and was fine...farrier had been trimming him. However, our yard and hacking is stoney/pebbly and he was suffering...avoiding the track and going off-road up verges etc.....farrier said to try initially with fronts only and see how he went....he's fine now, so no need for the backs.

I had a shettie who was always unshod- with no problems mnercifully as her feet were so small I doubt farrier would have been able to find/make any small enough to fit

My farrier is excellent....I trust him implicictly.....I know how good he is after a brief spell with a fit 'em fast merchant who made the foot fit the shoe rather than the other way around and then for a finale gave my horse an abscess....nice

 

[cptrayes]

There have been various references to not doing much roadwork on this thread. Tarmac is one of the very best conditioning surfaces for barefoot feet and a barefoot horse with the right diet, living with plenty of movement, and a decent trim (farrier or non-farrier, it doesn't matter which, the trim is the least part of the whole equation) can cope with any amount of road work. Yes I mean "any amount". My own hunter has done two hours on the road this morning trotting up one hill after another. Not only is it great for giving them tough, conditioned feet but it lets them trim their own feet into the shape that they need them to be to suit the conformation of their legs and the way they move.

"Why then does the majority of the horse world shoe there horses?"

Because, like me, everyone told them that horses can't work on hard or stony surfaces without shoes. It's not true. If you stick with it you'll find that out. If your horse stays footie, look at his diet, because a lot of barefooters cannot stay rock-crunching if their sugar or cereal levels are too high. Many, many of them are not 100% unless their access to grass in daytime is restricted in the spring and summer. I have one of those. Your horse will also need plenty of movement in the field and work under saddle if you want the strongest feet that he can grow.

My horses event affiliated and hunt with no shoes on. If you want more information on how to do it, buy the book Feet First from Amazon. It's less than £14.

There are now Occupational Standards for barefoot trimmers, co-written by farriers. So you can choose a trimmer who is trained to those standards. UKNHCP are. UKEP are. To the people who think four years farriery is the only thing to trust, one of those four years is spent learning how to bend metal. More time is spent taking shoes off and watching someone else put them on and learning how to keep the books. Some of the rest is spent learning about how horses feet are put together, and trimmers learn this too. In fact UKNHCP trimmers dissect horse feet as part of their training and quite possibly know more about foot conformation than a farrier does. NO time, as far aas I know, is spent by a trainee farrier learning specifically how to get a horse hardworking feet with NO shoes on. UKNHCP trimmers spend 18 months learning exactly that.

There are thousands of horses in this country doing no more than going from stable to field to arena and back again. One day, most of those people will realise that they have been duped for years into believing that they needed to pay £800 or so a year to have their horses shod. They may even be as mad as I was when I found out how much time and energy and money I had wasted for years before I got challenged by a barefooter to go without.

 

[Hippona]

OH's mare pretty much does the stable-field route...with a bit of hacking....will he take her shoes off? Will he hell...even though farrier suggested it and said she would be fine.

Why? because as you say- he is conditioned to think ALL horses need shoeing.

Horses for courses...shod, unshod- doesnt bother me....its what suits my horses. BTW....I dont feed ANY cereals and as little sugar as I can get away with...perhaps one day I may bite the bullet with my lad, but personally I think his confo. dictates he is better with shoes and he is happy and sound....so I'd rather not upset the applecart

 

[_HP_]

My farrier has always done mine..shoes or no shoes. A trim in prep for a shoe is altogether different, but a trim for shoeless/barefoot is the same whatever. It mimicks the horses natural wear but there is much more to going barefoot than just a trim. Diet and surroundings play a bigger part. The hoof has to be as healthy as can be and it needs conditioning ie it needs to be exposed to different surfaces than just a soft paddock and or school or even tarmac.
There are lots of useful sites like this about...

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page3.html
http://www.barefoothorses.co.uk/

 

[coen]

Well thanks for the advice everyone, I will give it a go and hopefully it works out. I could certainly do without the stress of him flipping out with farrier, losing shoes, expense ect.
This is probably an ideal time to start so his feet begin to adjust before summer.

Any idea how often you get their feet trimmed, presumably around 6 wks like shoeing?

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]


Any idea how often you get their feet trimmed, presumably around 6 wks like shoeing?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the horse and the work load etc my girl only gets trimmed every 8 - 10 weeks but her feet don't grow very quickly and she move around the field alot. I would say get the farrier out after 6 weeks anyway, he won't trim the feet if they don't need done but might want to tidy the rim of the hoof if it splits due to the old nail holes.

You'll get a feel for how often it's required as you go, at the moment due to the horse being out in snow my girl has gone nearly 12 weeks and her feet are still flare free and quite short, will get the farrier to check again next week as I'm not an expert in hoof balance.

 

[TheFarrier]

[ QUOTE ]
To the people who think four years farriery is the only thing to trust, one of those four years is spent learning how to bend metal. More time is spent taking shoes off and watching someone else put them on and learning how to keep the books. Some of the rest is spent learning about how horses feet are put together, and trimmers learn this too. In fact UKNHCP trimmers dissect horse feet as part of their training and quite possibly know more about foot conformation than a farrier does. NO time, as far aas I know, is spent by a trainee farrier learning specifically how to get a horse hardworking feet with NO shoes on. UKNHCP trimmers spend 18 months learning exactly that.



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually we do not 'learn to bend metal' as part of our four year apprenticeship this is a separate one year blacksmithing acces to farriery compulsory course

And as for disecting cadavers we do this in our anatomy section of our training so saying we dont do this is absolutely ridiculous. There is at least three disections modules depending on the college. But this is done along side all the other training we do. I have done a post about this so before you get it wrong again please have a look because i am tired of being told that i dont know how to trim a horse. Not all horse slive in ideal dry terrain with consistant temperatures who get to roam for miles. This is one of the reasons that horses need shoes

Most farriers will recommend what is best for the horse. I dont shoe a horse if it doesnt need it, and this decision is made along side the owner

Some horses can go barefoot easily. And the others could be holistcally managed to be barefoot but like veganism this is not for everyone and not all owners have the time and inclination to micro manage their horses so they shoe them to protect their feet.

 

[Donkeymad]

Thanks for saving me wasting my time there Thefarrier.

 

[Daisychain]

My lovely Belgian warmblood was diagnosed as having 'Navicular' last year. I was advised to have him pts...

He had bar shoes on which made v little difference. I did my research took the plunge, and have taken him barefoot.

When he first had his shoes off, he hobbled for days.... on grass.... his feet were boiling hot and i worried.

Then he settled and slowly his feet have strengthend up. He has finally come sound after 7mths and is on NO medication.

I have walked him out on the road, and a rough track and he is fine on it.

Only time will tell if my lovely boy will come back to proper work. What i have noticed though is how his heels have expanded, and in one front frog it has actually developed a deep crack in the middle where it is opening up.

I strongly believe there are many horses needlessly shod....

 

[GypsyGirl]

This topic is really interesting! .. My mare is barefoot - we do lots of competing and we also go on roads. She has never had shoes before (shes 10 next year) and she does fine without them. My farrier trims her hoofs when they get too long - depending on how quickly they grow she can sometimes go between 8-10weeks without having them trimed sometimes up to 12 weeks, although when my farrier comes to my field he always checks her (theres only 7 of them so he checks everyone when hes there) But shes really good - she is never sore footed - never has been sore footed all the time ive had her .. shes fine. I think if you can get away with barefoot then in my opinion its better - but then she does live out 24/7 - she used to be in a stable but not no more.

My farrier is really good - brilliant man! I have a lightwiehg cob though, she has never suffered from mud fever or anything either - she was out in all that snow and everything and shes fine

.. my friend has recently bought a 5year old 15.1 irish cob and he is shod on all 4's - but she is going to get some advice from the farrier as she wants to take the shoes off aswell.

Where I am 95% of the horses in my area are barefoot if im correct :S - maybe 85-90%

Why dont you speak to your farrier? im sure he can assure you whats best! xxx

 

[Serenity087]

I have to ask. Does ANYONE on here actually bother to look at their horses feet?

Dorey is BAREFOOT. NOT UNSHOD. It is rubbish to claim her feet are simply trimmed as if she had shoes on - they completely change shape when she is barefoot. The farrier then cuts off the excess.

I dispise the barefoot brigade. AFAIK, farriers do not force you to stick metal to your horses feet. You ask for shoes, you get shoes, you ask for barefoot, you get barefoot. Some farriers may suggest your horses feet are too weak for barefoot, and they'll provide correctional work, but they do not FORCE horse owners to apply shoes.

That is our decision.

The barefoot brigade is claiming that barefoot is some sort of miracle cure, but they're blaming the farriers and not the owners for being in blissful ignorance when it comes to their horses feet.

I have always known what my horses needed in terms of shoes, and unless competing, they're barefoot.

This forum makes me dispair. Everyone relies on specialist trimmers, specialist back people, specialist neck people, specialist horse talking people... does no one remember how a horse should look or how to fit tack anymore?

 

[spookypony]

daisychain, I'm happy to hear your boy has improved so much; I wondered how he was getting on!

I use a barefoot trimmer because she came recommended, and I've seen the evidence of her work. In our area, there are farriers that I would let near the pony, and farriers that I wouldn't. It's like any career, really: there are good ones and bad ones.

The pony had crap feet when I got him, and now has fabulous feet. He goes over all terrain, and seems to slide less than shod horses. His feet are quite fast-growing, so the trimmer comes every 4 weeks at the moment. Another horse on the yard has her every 6 weeks.

Oh yes, and I don't use crystals for anything other than looking pretty, and was one of the few people on the yard that didn't fork over wads of cash to the horse psychic...

 

[mrdarcy]

Despite being part of the barefoot brigade (I'm currently training to be a barefoot trimmer with the AANHCP) so you will despise me, I actually agree with some of what you say.

Owners should take more responsibility - I know when my horses were shod beyond picking them out I didn't really pay much attention to their feet. They were the farrier's responsibility not mine. But that's totally the wrong way round. Since going barefoot I know my horses' feet better than I know my own.

Blaming farriers isn't the answer - though there are those (and I count the one I used to use in this) who refuse to admit that barefoot can work. My farrier told me repeatedly when I first started thinking about it that there was no way my horse could go barefoot and carry on doing the workload I do (I compete endurance). He's been proved very wrong and needless to say I don't use him anymore. It's very hard to disagree with the experts when they tell you to do something for the good of your horse - of course no one is forced to do what their farrier tells them but many people they don't feel they can say no.

But equally there are farriers who support barefoot - and their numbers seem to be growing. It's heartening to read more and more posts in here that give examples of farriers who do encourage people not to shoe their horses. I think it's a big step forwards.

I do disgree with your statement about your horses being barefoot unless they are competing. Barefoot horses can compete too - mine certainly do... either barefoot or with hoof boots. We compete at distances up to 50 miles in a day and hope to progress to 80 miles and eventually 100 miles in a day in the next couple of years.

I do think there is more reliance on specialists these days because horse owning has become possible for a much wider range of people - and more and more often for people who don't come from horsey families and those who only took up riding later in life. So the background knowledge isn't there in the same way.

As for the barefoot v unshod terminology. For me the difference is that unshod is simply removing the shoes and trimming. Barefoot is removing the shoes, trimming, changing diet and environment until the horse can perform at his absolute best over any sort of terrain. It's a whole horse approach rather than just looking at the feet.