Barefeet, flat feet, foot sore, stones, ground, shoes? woes

[Horsekaren]

Im hoping there are some feet experts out there that can give me some advise.

I have a 9YO 15.3 cob, he has always had flat feet and has been barefoot for at least 2.5 years.

Diet - 1 Scoop fast fiber, 2 scoops Dodson & Horrell Placid, 1 Scoop Equivite , 24/7 grass but muzzled when lush.

He has been a little foot sore over the last couple of weeks, avoiding stone and gravely paths. He was turned out into a hard uneven field a 4 weeks ago, a new horse was introduced, my horse did a lot of running and chipped his feet quiet badly. Farrier has since been and wasn't overly concerned, he has tided up the chips but i can now see that he is standing on the front of his soles.

He seems ok in the field despite the ground being as hard as concrete, when schooling he is starting to hop as if to go into canter but i'm sure it is when he lands on a stone, to me it seems like a ouch response.

I am neither for or against shoes, i believe each horse is individual and what works for some doesn't for others. I am wondering because of the hard conditions and the flat feet now might be the time to think about shoes on his fronts to help make him more comfortable. I will speak to my farrier but i am keen to hear opinions and ideas from others before i jump into shoeing because he has always been so good barefooted.

I have had a look at boots but i'm not sure if they would be a good idea on 24/7 as i imagine they must sweat and bacteria must be rife. There is no point me just riding in boots as that is when he is on the softest surface, its more of a everyday issue than a ridden concern. It doesn't help that the yard has concrete stony gravel paths

I will try and post a pic of his feet below

 

[Horsekaren]

 

[Chinchilla]

Following....HK I think it might be useful if you posted side on shots of his hooves as well because those you posted don't really show if they're flat or not or what state his trim is. (Or at least to me they don't but I am by no means an expert, I just want to learn).

 

[Carrottom]

Is it possible that he has a bit of thrush in his frog? I knew one horse who would go hopping after being in the sand school if sand got into a slight crevice which I believed to be caused by thrush.

 

[Horsekaren]

I will try and grab some photos side on tonight to see if that shows it better.
I am pretty sure he hasn't got thrush, i normally spritz with hoof disinfectant once a week and when he had a bit of thrush in winter it absolutely stank!

 

[ester]

It's not unusual for the edge of the sole to be weight bearing. I think with the hard ground this year quite a few horses have put down extra sole as a response but this rather fills in some of their concavity so can make them a bit more footy- it certainly looks like your boy is preparing to shed some. (Assuming no digital pulses)

Do you hack him?

His frog isn't ideal, I'd treat it more regularly, Frank's never smell but they are in much better condition if kept on top of.

 

[Horsekaren]

It's not unusual for the edge of the sole to be weight bearing. I think with the hard ground this year quite a few horses have put down extra sole as a response but this rather fills in some of their concavity so can make them a bit more footy- it certainly looks like your boy is preparing to shed some. (Assuming no digital pulses)

Do you hack him?

His frog isn't ideal, I'd treat it more regularly, Frank's never smell but they are in much better condition if kept on top of.

No i dont hack him at the moment, i dont plan on hacking for a while until the ground softens.
His feet have always been flat, when i had him vetted they commented on his flat feet, all they said was one day he may benefit from shoes. When you say it looks like he is preparing to shed how can you see that. I've not really got an eye or a very good understanding of feet.

When you say treat the frog, would that be with the hoof disinfectant i do once a week but up it to twice a day?

 

[ester]

If he were mine I'd treat him with red horse sole cleanse and shove some red horse hoof stuff in the crevice for a couple of days then repeat.

I sort of asked re. hacking because often flatter feet come with a lot of roadwork, but equally IME roadwork can also be good at getting them to function at their best.

Re. the shedding the radiating lines/cracks out from the frog towards the toe shows it is all going to come off in flakes at some point.

 

[Leg_end]

Is it possible that he has a bit of thrush in his frog? I knew one horse who would go hopping after being in the sand school if sand got into a slight crevice which I believed to be caused by thrush.

I will try and grab some photos side on tonight to see if that shows it better.
I am pretty sure he hasn't got thrush, i normally spritz with hoof disinfectant once a week and when he had a bit of thrush in winter it absolutely stank!

He has got thrush. Any frog or heel with a split has thrush - can you see how there’s debris all caught up in it? I’d be treating aggressively for a week to ten days. This will mean he’ll start to use the back of his foot properly again.

I’d also be keeping an eye on his grass intake, it’s currently stressed to the max so if you’re noticing footiness then this could be the answer.

 

[ycbm]

He has got thrush. Any frog or heel with a split has thrush - can you see how there’s debris all caught up in it? I’d be treating aggressively for a week to ten days. This will mean he’ll start to use the back of his foot properly again.

Many horses have a heel cleft and do not have thrush. It's not possible to definitively state this horse has thrush from those photos.

 

[Nudibranch]

I am very pro no shoes where it works and for me that's been every horse bar one. He was shod because he has congenitally flat feet, and chronic foot pain can cause a lot of issues further down the line due to them not holding themselves or moving correctly.

 

[pippixox]

I have a retired ex-racer who has always had terrible flat feet. he was shod his whole life until a year ago (aged 20) when he was struggling even more to keep shoes on and would be apparently sore in them. took the 'plunge' with a local specialist podiatrist. he has been doing amazingly well, but the last month he has struggled due to the rock solid ground and I also feel the yoyo in grass sugars- we had the surge when the sun finally arrived after a lot of wet, then followed by this drought.

he moves better without shoes on as he is now using his sole properly. but as nudibranch said- if they are not using their feet properly it could cause more issues. I would just worry that shoes would mask a problem, possibly with sugar levels at the moment, rather than solve it. I am very unqualified here though, just trying to learn as I go.

I would be tempted to get front boots to hack out and get them moving well on the straight, rather than just schooling.

 

[Leg_end]

Many horses have a heel cleft and do not have thrush. It's not possible to definitively state this horse has thrush from those photos.

But the majority, in my experience, do. From these pictures and the dried dung I can see wedged in the crack I’d think it would be a miracle if that split isn’t down to thrush.

 

[Horsekaren]

From the pictures are there any signs of sugar damage? how can you tell? he is on a very low suger diet, has been muzzled for all but 4 hours a day in the last two months, i have taken it off since the field is so bare and dry, he is worked 4 -6 times a week, no treats ect.

He is a fantastic weight for his breed, 15.3 cob approx 525kg, everyone always comments on how good i keep his weight.

 

[ester]

I am very pro no shoes where it works and for me that's been every horse bar one. He was shod because he has congenitally flat feet, and chronic foot pain can cause a lot of issues further down the line due to them not holding themselves or moving correctly.

Absolutely if the issue is chronic, it's only been a couple of weeks though in this instance.

HK no not from those pics, but we might to be able to tell more with others

 

[tallyho!]

Two weeks isn't a long time to adjust to hard ground. Could have bruised the soles a bit charging around. I don't know about you but we have gone from quagmire to concrete in very little time. Can't say my horses hooves have noticed but each horse is an individual.

It hasn't always been this way though, my mares used to struggle in change of seasons but I got my grass tested and we have high iron here. I've since learnt most of uk soil is high in iron. So I changed to a no iron supplement and these last couple of years we've not had to dust down the boots even. Fingers crossed!

I noticed that equivite does contain iron so maybe tweak that slightly. Also, I'm sure you know that fast fibre is marketed as a "balanced" product so has it's own vit & min content - how does that add up with equivite? Are you overtopping something? With barefoot, it is so often down to these simple little things that can make all the difference. With one of my horses, ycbm suggested a slight tweak and it made all the difference. You'll find great support on here.

 

[Horsekaren]

Two weeks isn't a long time to adjust to hard ground. Could have bruised the soles a bit charging around. I don't know about you but we have gone from quagmire to concrete in very little time. Can't say my horses hooves have noticed but each horse is an individual.

It hasn't always been this way though, my mares used to struggle in change of seasons but I got my grass tested and we have high iron here. I've since learnt most of uk soil is high in iron. So I changed to a no iron supplement and these last couple of years we've not had to dust down the boots even. Fingers crossed!

I noticed that equivite does contain iron so maybe tweak that slightly. Also, I'm sure you know that fast fibre is marketed as a "balanced" product so has it's own vit & min content - how does that add up with equivite? Are you overtopping something? With barefoot, it is so often down to these simple little things that can make all the difference. With one of my horses, ycbm suggested a slight tweak and it made all the difference. You'll find great support on here.

He isnt fed enough fast fiber to get all he requires, as we went onto 24/7 grazing i didn't give him any hard feed, i then noticed he was licking dirt, going mad for his salt lick and in all honestly he lost his head a bit, was scared of everything.

I love the calmer he is on as it is all just herbs, as for the Equivite he is having half a scoop in the morning with half a scoop of fast fiber and then same again in the evening. Its really helped and settled his mind and stopped the mud licking.

However this change does coincide with the sore feet... two weeks on Equivite and i then noticed the footyness unfortunately this did happen at the same time as the turn out in the awful field

In terms of vit and mineral supplements is there one that is a bit of a go to? really low in sugar and fillers that?

I have also started to introduce equibites which are in treat form, for his weight he can have ten a day and that would be his full allowance of minerals, is there anything alarming in the below?-


Protein 11.0%
Oil 4.8%
Fibre 2.5%
Ash 9.0%
Calcium 1.2%
Phosphorus 0.5%
Magnesium 0.45 g/kg
Vitamin A 300,000 iu/kg
Vitamin D3 35,000 iu/kg
Vitamin E 6,500 mg/kg
Zinc 2,800 mg/kg
Copper 725 mg/kg
Selenium 6.9 mg/kg

I am going to knock the equivite on the head for a few weeks to see if it helps, maybe it is too much!

As for boots, i am wondering whether these could be worth a try for now, i'm just not sure if they would help distribute the weight and protect his sore bits :S

 

[ester]

I won some equibites in a christmas competition, but the ingredients are a bit rubbish.

Most of the good vits/mins don't have anything much in the way of filler/sugar if anything.
Pro hoof from pro_earth
forage plus
equimins advance complete (good if you want a pellet you can feed on it's own too, but also comes powdered).
equivita.

I'm a bit confused why you want to help distribute the weight, his hoof is doing that fine as it stands I should think. Boots mostly (unless therapy ones) protect the sole from sharp stones etc.

 

[Horsekaren]

I won some equibites in a christmas competition, but the ingredients are a bit rubbish.

Most of the good vits/mins don't have anything much in the way of filler/sugar if anything.
Pro hoof from pro_earth
forage plus
equimins advance complete (good if you want a pellet you can feed on it's own too, but also comes powdered).
equivita.

I'm a bit confused why you want to help distribute the weight, his hoof is doing that fine as it stands I should think. Boots mostly (unless therapy ones) protect the sole from sharp stones etc.

I guess with the weight distribution i mean the same as a hoof does. I know sometimes if i am wearing bad shoes i can get sore heels or toes.
Thanks for the list of vits i have just ordered some pro hoof, the reviews seem to be singing about the stuff.

Going to measure him for some boots :0) as protection from sharp stones is exactly what i think he needs i presume they help to stop wear of the sole also a bit like me trying to run 10 miles with no shoes or 10 miles with shoes.

Thanks

 

[ester]

The main con for hoof boots is achieving a good fit is vital, and that they all bring the breakover point forwards slightly even the good ones (and the bad ones are worse for it). I've used easyboot gloves on and off, for particularly stony rides, or during times when Frank has been a bit footy as he is also flat footed.

I don't use them when I don't need to as they certainly alter his action a bit and plenty of roadwork unshod has usually been better for him.

 

[tallyho!]

He isnt fed enough fast fiber to get all he requires, as we went onto 24/7 grazing i didn't give him any hard feed, i then noticed he was licking dirt, going mad for his salt lick and in all honestly he lost his head a bit, was scared of everything.

I love the calmer he is on as it is all just herbs, as for the Equivite he is having half a scoop in the morning with half a scoop of fast fiber and then same again in the evening. Its really helped and settled his mind and stopped the mud licking.

However this change does coincide with the sore feet... two weeks on Equivite and i then noticed the footyness unfortunately this did happen at the same time as the turn out in the awful field

In terms of vit and mineral supplements is there one that is a bit of a go to? really low in sugar and fillers that?

I have also started to introduce equibites which are in treat form, for his weight he can have ten a day and that would be his full allowance of minerals, is there anything alarming in the below?-


Protein 11.0%
Oil 4.8%
Fibre 2.5%
Ash 9.0%
Calcium 1.2%
Phosphorus 0.5%
Magnesium 0.45 g/kg
Vitamin A 300,000 iu/kg
Vitamin D3 35,000 iu/kg
Vitamin E 6,500 mg/kg
Zinc 2,800 mg/kg
Copper 725 mg/kg
Selenium 6.9 mg/kg

I am going to knock the equivite on the head for a few weeks to see if it helps, maybe it is too much!

As for boots, i am wondering whether these could be worth a try for now, i'm just not sure if they would help distribute the weight and protect his sore bits :S

It's not that it's too much or too little... it's the fact that minerals interact and too much of one can knock out the other in the horses' system. Then, all you're feeding is "expensive wee" to coin a term I heard once...

I don't know off pat what's amiss with your quantities, you'd have to get familiar with an excel spreadsheet and calculate what you're giving (yes, I AM that geeky ) especially if stuff is being added here and there. The only thing that's really glaring is the tiny amounts of anything truly meaningful.

Look up progressive earth, forageplus or equimins. You could even discuss what's going on with them. Really knowledgeable people.

 

[Horsekaren]

Thanks for all the helpful advise!

My plan of action

Cavallo trek hoof boots ordered, due to arrive tomorrow, im really hoping these help with the stones for now and then can be brought out as and when required.

im going to ride in the boots and walk him to and from the field with them on so he can stay off stones as much as possible.

I have purchased some Keretex hoof hardener to try and toughen them up from the outside.

Progressive earth hoof supplement should arrive today and will be fed with fast fibre and D&H placid. Once this bag of FF has finished i may look at changing to Thunderbrook or Agrobs as i am only reading great things about these. I am also going to try and introduce horsehage/haylage which i will soak to start with his wet hay so see if it makes him fizzy ect. All of the hay around my area is freshly cut and im a bit worried about the sugar in it. I am also toying with the idea of trying haylege this winter to see if it helps with the winter breathing issues.

I know it sounds like i am completely flipping his diet but of course it will be done slowly.

I knew diet effected feet but i didn't quiet realise to what extreme. I want those feet looking wonderful again!

 

[ester]

You might struggle with the cavallos with as much feather as he has as they fit quite high up but see how you get on, you may at least need a sock

 

[Horsekaren]

You might struggle with the cavallos with as much feather as he has as they fit quite high up but see how you get on, you may at least need a sock

my easily influenced mind has been swayed a bit by this picture, if he has to much feather they will be returned
https://www.horseandmore.co.uk/products/cavallo-entry-level-hoof-boot-elb

 

[tallyho!]

Sugar in hay never changes no matter how old it is. Sugar only dissolves in solutes hence why soaking works to remove it. Some vitamins and minerals degrade over time though. I don’t worry about feeding fresh hay, as long as it is dry (no mould - some people like to wait a few weeks just to make sure) and not too dusty. Meadow preferred!

 

[Sheep]

Horsekaren I just wanted to say that I really admire your dedication to getting things right for your boy!
It's a theme that really prevails through your posts, he's a lucky boy to have you.

 

[Michen]

I second this

Horsekaren I just wanted to say that I really admire your dedication to getting things right for your boy!
It's a theme that really prevails through your posts, he's a lucky boy to have you.

 

[Horsekaren]

Horsekaren I just wanted to say that I really admire your dedication to getting things right for your boy!
It's a theme that really prevails through your posts, he's a lucky boy to have you.

Ah Thank you I am looking forward to having a few more years under my belt and knowing what he needs when instead of everything being a oooo what do i do about that moment every time

 

[Bellalily]

He looks to have built some callous on the front of his sole nearest the toe, which will compensate. I would say it is diet related. Fast fibre has lots of nasties in it, equivite is very sweet and I don't know about Placid. I would be looking to tweak his diet before thinking about the mechanics of his feet.
Mine have Dengie hi fi molasses free and Formula for feet and I haven't had any reaction as yet and our hacking destroys feet up on Bodmin Moor if they aren't rock crunching.

 

[Horsekaren]

Boots arrived and tried them last night!!!
Amazing!!!!
He loved them, strait onto the gravel path, no avoiding stones 😁
Had a little lunge in them then I hopped on and there was absolutely no hopping on his front legs.
The feathers fall over them quiet nicely and i tuck the low bits in loosely.

What a great invention, couldn’t recommend enough!
My horse has his own pair of sneakers lol

Hoof hardener applied after so hopefully will see an improvement without the hoof boots soon!

Love that feeling when you take a punt on something and it turns out to be a great disision and not a waiste or money.

Happy owner - more importantly - happy horse!