Barefoot advice for ex-racer with weak feet

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MissMincePie&Brandy

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I am considering having an open mind (against the advice of my vet and farrier) about giving barefoot a go with my retired ex-racehorse.

The horse is a 9 year old ex-racehorse. He has Navicular, flat feet, very sensitive soles, very brittle horn. I have an excellent farrier, who works alongside my vet and has xrays of his feet, and his toes are kept short. He has been fed farriers formula for 2 years, and before that he was on another hoof supplement with his previous owners. He is fed a well balanced diet: turnout with good grass cover during daytime, adlib haylage at night, with (alfalfa, basic mix, conditioning cubes, carron oil, extraflexHA, farriers formula) and he's in superb condition with a very glossy coat.
He is no longer ridden due to kissing spine, navicular and arthritic changes to some of his joints (I believe these all relate to his past working life I'm afraid)

I have always listened to and agreed with the vet and farrier in the past, but it will be so much easier for me to justify keeping him if I can keep his costs down to a minimum!

I've looked at the Rockley farm website, but my horse can't be ridden due to his back mainly, and he would probably not fare well if I sent him away, as he can be very highly strung and a lot of people find him very hard to handle, and a new environment may send him loopy too (he's a lamb with me as we have a special bond)

What I want to know is....
People with ex-racehorses who have such weak feet as this, does barefoot work, or would I just cause my horse pain if I tried it, and would it be best to carry on as I am? If I did decide to try, where would I go to find a local barefoot specialist as my farrier is against trying it on this horse.
 
In my opinion a lot of farriers are going to advise against the idea as effectively they are losing money.
It's a difficult situation really as you have described all these problems he has, so I'm not clued up to whether he needs his navicular shoes etc.
You could try him and see how he goes and if he doesn't cope well whip them back on?
I wish my horse was barefoot, I think its 1000x better for them.
 
It may be worth having a chat/email with Nic Barker at Rockley anyway...
My feeling is to get a consultation with an experienced Trimmer to discuss a plan of care. Pads and boots are available if needed for comfort and protection.
It really is better to have someone out to see him and your set up to give appropriate advice. This will also give you the chance to see what it may entail in his day to day care so you are better prepared if you decide to go this route.

Best of luck and it sounds like barefoot may well benefit him.
 
Mmmmmmmm please don't get the wrong impression from this question. I ask for very good reason.

Is your horse at all gassy - ie does he fart. Sometimes, a lot, or never?
 
I would say normal in the fart department. He tends to do silent ones, so I don't notice much :D
I will take some feet photos tommorrow, though he's due to be shod in 4 days time, so you'll need to take into account he's due.
 
What have you got to lose trying? I would call an EP or AANHCP (I think!) trained trimmers.

Your story reminds me of mine a few months ago. We're doing ok b/f so far. If it's not possible, you can always put shoes back on - b/f not the answer to everything but it's an option!
 
I have an ex-racer, I took her shoes off during foot & mouth and had to call the farrier back after 2 days as she was crippled and had shoes put back on. When she had to be retired from work completely I decided to take her shoes off again and at first just had the backs removed I used Keratex foot hardener (you paint it on) and its brilliant! I cannot tell you how impressed I was. Once she was happy with her back feet I had her fronts removed and again used Keratex. She has now not had shoes on for 6 or 7 years she has her feet trimmed every 8 weeks by my usual farrier and he says her feet are very good.
 
Iv got 2 bare footed horses and 2 shod. My tbs iv never been able to get bare footed they just can't cope with the work but if yours is retired I can't see why not so try it, got nothing to lose. Tbh if I had a retired horse I wouldn't shoe it.

But what I don't understand is why people use " bare foot trimmers" what training have they got compaired to a farrier???? Bugger all. Wouldn't let one lose on my horses feet. Farriers have gone though years off training
 
try it you've got nothing to lose but everything to gain. i would stick with your farrier tho and do it in stages. read up as much as you can about helping them with diet and things to put directly onto the hoof. i always use magnesium supplement to ensure good hooves - much much cheaper than FF too.

take the backs off first and when he's happy with that then remove the fronts. if your horse is not comfortable without fronts then you can always put them back on - hence why you should stick with your farrier it gives you all options.

i had the backs taken off my mare and i still dont think shes noticed!!
 
I had a horse (also ex racer) with feet exactly as you describe- I wouldnt have ever dreamed of removing his shoes, as I wouldnt have wanted him to go even a week uncomfortable in his feet (think how painful it must be!). even just pottering around a field.

Im not against bare footedness (LOL) at all, but it really isnt for every horse, and you may well end up with a crippled horse you can not get shoes back onto due to the damage caused!
 
lexiedhb said:
you may well end up with a crippled horse you can not get shoes back onto due to the damage caused!
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point of view.

The other side of the coin is that the bulk of feet I end up working on are because they will no longer hold a shoe, or the horse is permanently lame in shoes and the owner is considering PTS because of this. These horses seem to end up sound, some after 20 minutes, some take a little longer.

But then I am a witch..............

and a member of an evil cult :-)

Very evil, very wicked and no sense of humour at all! :-)

Just off now to dance naked in the morning dew (damn - its raining so can't do any spells today!)
 
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I have the exact same problem with my tb xracer. His feet were so bad that we put him in bar shoes with equipak... and he's still sore and lame sometimes, depending on what he's been doing. It's gotten to the stage now where he's not sound in them and has had to be retired (at 11!) because his feet are just so bad. For him i think it would cripple him to be without shoes, he cant stand comfortably without one on whilst the other one is being shod!! This is just due to him being so flat footed and having such weak feet. But it would be a mucher cheaper option to take them off... i am considering taking his backs off and putting a natural balance pair on his fronts with some pads... this could maybe be an option for yours??

Generally tb's are not good with barefoot and if they do adapt they go through the 'transition phase'- several horses i know who went through this took about a year until they were pain free and comfortable without them. They can adapt.. but it takes time and i wouldnt put my boy through a year of barefoot pain. Although every horse is different.....
 
LucyPriory, please tell more about gassy horses! I have a welsh mare 20 something (25?) and I'm convinced grass (or too much of it) makes her gassy and it's one of my indicators to get her off grass altogether. What is your thinking on the gut disturbance?
 
I have an ex-racer with navicular and very flat, thin soled feet. He was retired a couple of years ago and i decided to remove his back shoes. He struggled to walk up the stoney track to the field for the first few weeks but gradually his feet became tougher and he is fine now. However, i would never even think about taking his front shoes off as i think it would cripple him. Whenever he has lost a front shoe he has been so uncomfortable so i didn't think it would be fair to take them off completely.

When my mums TB was retired she had all his shoes taken off, he was fine in the field but really struggled on hard or stoney ground. Luckily his walk to/from the field wasn't far so my mum persevered.

I think on the whole TBs don't do well without shoes, especially their fronts, but you don't know until you try.
 
amandap said:
LucyPriory, please tell more about gassy horses! I have a welsh mare 20 something (25?) and I'm convinced grass (or too much of it) makes her gassy and it's one of my indicators to get her off grass altogether. What is your thinking on the gut disturbance?
Click to expand...

Hi Amandap

I spend far too much time near the rear end of neds........ :-)

Ok - the more techy stuff

Fructans are resistant to mammalian enzyme digestion and must be fermented by bacteria in the horse’s hindgut (Suzuki and Chatterton, 1993). Bacteria located in the hindgut ferment any starch or sugar that is not digested by enzymes in the small intestine.

Unfortunately, fermentation of sugar, starch and fructan by hindgut microorganisms can produce lactic acid, and the resulting acidosis can destroy the environment within the hindgut leading to death of the microorganisms and health concerns such as colic and laminitis (Richards et al., 2003).

What the techy stuff doesn't mention is that one of the by products of all this bacterial digestion of sugar is farts (sorry gas........).


So yes - I often find a farty horse has a bit of a stretched white line under all the crud on its feet. But not always, just enough for it to be a bit too much for coincidence.
 
Go for it. I did this August, never looked back since. For 2 weeks I was umming and arring over it as he was a little footy on stones...but since then goes over anything without a care, been showjumping him/XC/showing/etc and his feet have looked better than ever :)
 
LucyPriory said:
What the techy stuff doesn't mention is that one of the by products of all this bacterial digestion of sugar is farts (sorry gas........).
Click to expand...
Hehe! Yes I know the basics of this but as you say farting isn't something I've heard mentioned in this context.
That backs up my gut (lol) feeling and experience with this mare.:)
 
OP, my only suggestion is to read up as much as you can about going Barefoot, talk to as many proffesionals as possible so you get a balanced view point & then go from there. My own TB couldnt cope barefoot in front so i have struck a happy medium where he's shod in front & happily barefoot behind.
I wasnt prepared to push being barefoot with this horse we tried it & it didnt work out.

However after lot's of what ive said above ive just taken my dressage horse barefoot 5 weeks ago now, in an effort to try to help the injury he's recovering from. So far the horse is much happier & doing (touch wood) very well. But he did have good feet to start with.
 
LucyPriory said:
That's an interesting point of view.

The other side of the coin is that the bulk of feet I end up working on are because they will no longer hold a shoe, or the horse is permanently lame in shoes and the owner is considering PTS because of this. These horses seem to end up sound, some after 20 minutes, some take a little longer.

But then I am a witch..............

and a member of an evil cult :-)

Very evil, very wicked and no sense of humour at all! :-)

Just off now to dance naked in the morning dew (damn - its raining so can't do any spells today!)
Click to expand...
Um ok------ :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
amandap said:
I think forum history may be at play in LucyPriory's resonse here.

Misinterpreted, you might find this link useful to read. It is a US link though.
http://www.healthyhoof.com/articles/cantgobarefoot.html
Click to expand...

Yes! :-)

Sorry....... that and extreme knackeredness having driven half way across the UK twice in two days fuelled on coffee and fruit gums

and pure simple frustration when faced with cripped horse which apparently 'can't be fixed' and lo and behold wave the magic wand for 20 minutes and its sound (the horse not the wand)

I feel sad for peeps that have previously spent fortunes with no result, more sad that for horses when they get PTS needlessly

But I admit to getting a warm glow when we get a result (and I promise, no magic involved)

Good luck with your TB.
 
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thatsmygirl said:
Iv got 2 bare footed horses and 2 shod. My tbs iv never been able to get bare footed they just can't cope with the work but if yours is retired I can't see why not so try it, got nothing to lose. Tbh if I had a retired horse I wouldn't shoe it.

But what I don't understand is why people use " bare foot trimmers" what training have they got compaired to a farrier???? Bugger all. Wouldn't let one lose on my horses feet. Farriers have gone though years off training
Click to expand...

I think you have posted your own solution here as to why you have little or no joy with your TB's going bare foot.

I know that both farriers and trimmers deal with feet but that is really where the similarity ends.

You wouldn't get a cobbler to fix your in growing toe nails, now would you.

Some farriers are interested and practice barefoot trimming, but, I'm sure they would tell you these are two separate sciences.

Farriers do have years of training, but thats more down to the way they are taught.
 
Just a short reply as I'm on my mobile at the moment.
My ex racer was one of those horses that couldn't go barefoot, long toed underrun heels. Thin weak soles and crippled lame every time he pulled a shoe off.
However he had soft tissue damage and wasn't coming right and got sent to Rockley as a last hope.
it's been worth it as his feet are unrecognisable now and he's come sound.
I still use my old farrier to trim but ithat's all he does - tidy the edges and put a roll on every few weeks.
having got the best start barefoot at Rockley I have had to educate myself about nutrition and get forage analysis done to make it work for us. Without that side I think it would have failed in our case.
My farrier is not anti barefoot but would not have been able to provide all the pieces of the puzzle.

Worth it tho to watch my farrier on sun struggle to trim as the horn is now so hard. Still have to stop him trimming the frog as he always wants to tidy it and this makes Frankie sore.
 
AndySpooner said:
I think you have posted your own solution here as to why you have little or no joy with your TB's going bare foot.

I know that both farriers and trimmers deal with feet but that is really where the similarity ends.

You wouldn't get a cobbler to fix your in growing toe nails, now would you.

Some farriers are interested and practice barefoot trimming, but, I'm sure they would tell you these are two separate sciences.

Farriers do have years of training, but thats more down to the way they are taught.
Click to expand...

I would not trust somebody with little training with my horses feet.
But just for interest, I went and rode my mates horse who has gone bare foot. He's been bare footed now for year and a half and he moves really really bad, use to be a lovely mover and show horse at hoys. She can't feel it cause she's got use to it but her instructor has stated the same. He was fine in shoes but moves bad now.
 
I'm not for or against 'barefoot' - I think it works for some horses and not for others. My ex-racer has been unshod for just over three years now and the improvement in his hooves has been tremendous. He came to me with very flat feet, low heels and very brittle hooves. He was loosing a shoe every week at least and my farrier at the time said he had some of the worst feet he had seen. We took his shoes off as it was becoming increasingly difficult to find sound hoof to put nails in. He was very sore on everything except grass for several weeks. He was even footy in the field if the ground was very hard. I wasn't completely happy but gave him time to adapt as we needed the hoof to grow out before he could have shoes back on. After a couple of months he was sound on everything except gravel and his feet were already looking better. His hooves are now a much better shape, his frog is larger and more healthy-looking and he actually has some heel! We have recently moved and changed farriers to a guy who does a proper trim for a working hoof - rather than the standard preparation for a shoe trim that most do - and I'm hoping this will help even more.

Sorry for rambling on so much but it sounds as though it could be worth a try. I can say from experience though that you will have to be prepared for him being sore for a while intially while he adapts. Once he's more used to it walking out on roads does seem to help them firm up. I suppose the longer they've been shod the harder it must be to adjust but you have to balance up whether it will be worth it for - hopefully - a more comfortable future. If you can find a farrier who is more 'aware' of barefoot that would probably be a useful place to start although you may have to pay a little more - we pay £30 per trim now compared to £20 before - but it's still cheaper than shoes, especially if you are having remedial types!

Good luck with whatever you decided. Keep us updated! :)
 
I've just deshod a TB that has been lame for over a year, including in the field. A small fortune has been spent on vets fees and remedial farriery with no improvement and he was due to be PTS.

24 hours post deshoeing and the owner called to say he was sound in the field.

It's a start - at the very least he will have some time to wander round in his field happier than he has been in a long while.

Where we go from here only time will tell.
 
My Navic tb exracer is barefoot. If your going to try then now maybe a good time as the ground is soft. The only thing i would say is her feet have improved the most with a better diet. Cutting out 'sugary' stuff she is just on fast fibre with linseed and then mineral mix.
She looks fab and much cheaper than buying half a dozen different bags of feed. She has as much hay as she wants. UKNHCP forum is a good place to gain info and 'Feet First' is a great book with plenty of barefoot info ( its on Amazon).
Personally I would give it a go if your horse isnt happy you can always put the shoes back on. There are 3 retired tb eventers at my yard all had shoes removed and put out, they have a shelter and haylage in winter and all 3 are on the fat side and happy :-)
 
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