Barefoot advice please!

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In reponse to my earlier thread on Tildren/Navicular (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=491176) and following advice on there I have decided to give barefoot ago.

I am thinking about Rockley Farm and have contacted Nic and I am currently weighing up the options. It is alot of money for me (as a student!!) and am currently looking into options including possibly claiming for loss of use (anyone know anything about this - I know nothing! Someone just suggested this) I am also worried as it takes him a long time to settle in new places and it is a very long way for him as he is not the best traveller.

Anyways as he is really struggling when he is shod and is due for shoeing next week I have decided to have his shoes taken off. And to hopefully begin rehab at home whilst I weigh up the options and get together the money if I do send him.

So any suggestions on the barefoot front appreciated!
 
Nic should be able to advise you on most things.

You don't HAVE to send him to Rockley. It is possible to rehab at home with the help of a really good trimmer and some dedication.

Be prepared to buy a set of hoof boots if your horse needs them at first.

My livery mate's horse didn't need them, but each horse is different.

What are you feeding him at the moment and what is his hoof quality and general health like?

If you do send him to Rockley - I've never known a horse not to settle there. They just get on with it.

There's a DVD you may be interested in (I love Pete Ramey
bowdown.gif
)
http://www.hoofrehab.com/ThatsMyHorse2.htm

If you get it - I'll buy it from you later
thumbsup.gif
 
Oberon said:
Nic should be able to advise you on most things.

You don't HAVE to send him to Rockley. It is possible to rehab at home with the help of a really good trimmer and some dedication.

Be prepared to buy a set of hoof boots if your horse needs them at first.

My livery mate's horse didn't need them, but each horse is different.

What are you feeding him at the moment and what is his hoof quality and general health like?

If you do send him to Rockley - I've never known a horse not to settle there. They just get on with it.

There's a DVD you may be interested in (I love Pete Ramey
bowdown.gif
)
http://www.hoofrehab.com/ThatsMyHorse2.htm

If you get it - I'll buy it from you later
thumbsup.gif
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply Oberon. :)

Ohh will have a look at the DVD. :)

All really useful stuff to know thanks - his hooves look ok to me (but don't know enough to probably be sure!!) and for a TB I think he has pretty decent feet. I will try and take some pictures of them tomorrow and post them. 2 winters ago he was barefoot throughout the winter and went dressage, showjumping and hacking and had no issues.

Health wise he is well and fat at the minute! I currently feed him a scoop of Happy Hoof and a handful of High Fibre Cubes AM + PM. He also has limestone flower and 1 danilon in his evening feed.

Thanks again for all the help really appreciated. :)
 
Slightly off topic but I'd really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feet-First-...9602/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319487041&sr=8-1 It's written by the people who run rockley and I found it gave a very balanced and interesting view on taking horses barefoot- and might arm you with some more knowledge so you can decide if maybe taking him barefoot yourself is an option.

Also if he's insured, I think it might be possible to claim some of the Rockley fees off that, but you might need a letter from your vet first? :)

EDIT- Bought that book as I'm trying to make an informed decision about taking my TB's shoes off for a bit this winter.. suggested by my farrier but I wanted to do what I could to keep him comfortable and give him the best chance of his holiday from shoes being a success! There is a lot about feeding which to me was helpful.
 
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floradora09 said:
Slightly off topic but I'd really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feet-First-...9602/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319487041&sr=8-1 It's written by the people who run rockley and I found it gave a very balanced and interesting view on taking horses barefoot- and might arm you with some more knowledge so you can decide if maybe taking him barefoot yourself is an option.

Also if he's insured, I think it might be possible to claim some of the Rockley fees off that, but you might need a letter from your vet first? :)

EDIT- Bought that book as I'm trying to make an informed decision about taking my TB's shoes off for a bit this winter.. suggested by my farrier but I wanted to do what I could to keep him comfortable and give him the best chance of his holiday from shoes being a success! There is a lot about feeding which to me was helpful.
Click to expand...

Ooo that looks a great book will definately place an order for that thanks. :) Unfortunately he started with navicular over 18 months ago so he is now out of insurance. :(
 
I see that you are in Derbyshire.

My trimmer comes from Belper, Derbyshire and I have been using her for around 9 years now, and can't speak highly enough of her. Although I choose to trim my own ponies and have her to check them, she does do trims for many of her clients. Very experienced and knowledgeable, and explains things very clearly. Has some good discussions with vets too.

Just wondered whether you might choose to contact her to see what she thinks, and weigh that up with everything else in deciding your best way forward.

If you'd like her details, do pm me.

Sarah
 
Limestone flour isn't necessary (with most of UK's grazing) especially with the alfalfa in HappyHoof.

I WOULD add salt (horses rarely get enough and it assists the absorption of calcium - which is handy when you want to remodel bone...) at 25g a day.

Magnesium too - it's responsible for over 300 actions in the body and horses almost always need more (even when the grazing is adequate). Lack of it manifests as footiness and also stress - hence why it is used as a calmer;)

Yea-sacc to aid in digestion (as his difficulty to settle places makes me feel he may need it).

These things won't do him any harm - even if they aren't required.

If he manages fine on the diet he is on, then cool. But if you find him continually footy, there are other tweaks you could do to help.
P.S. Tbs are often much more reactive to sugar than we tend to realise - just as much as cobs sometimes;)
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Progressive-Earth

http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.htm
 
flintfootfilly said:
I see that you are in Derbyshire.

My trimmer comes from Belper, Derbyshire and I have been using her for around 9 years now, and can't speak highly enough of her. Although I choose to trim my own ponies and have her to check them, she does do trims for many of her clients. Very experienced and knowledgeable, and explains things very clearly. Has some good discussions with vets too.

Just wondered whether you might choose to contact her to see what she thinks, and weigh that up with everything else in deciding your best way forward.

If you'd like her details, do pm me.

Sarah
Click to expand...

Ooo thats great thanks will PM you. :)
 
Check with your insurance, I know mine would cover 50% of the livery cost if I was to send my horse to Rockley. If you pay livery anyway, that may work out cheaper than doing it on your own.

Plus you would benefit from all of Nic's experience and not constantly wonder if you're doing things right. I'm doing the rehab at home and I can honestly say it's a constant worry.
Plus I think it's taking me much longer so again, even though my horse is at home and not costing me a vast amount, in the long run it will probably cost me the same.

Worth giving Rockley a call before you have the shoes taken off, I think they prefer to take the shoes off there as they know how to keep the horses comfortable initially.

I enquired about loss of use for my boy, you basically need a letter from the vet saying that the horse will not be suitable for the use it is insured for anymore. Have heard that insurance companies can be funny about the amount they pay out, it's market value which in the current market of course is probably a lot less than the horse is insured for...
 
Oberon said:
Limestone flour isn't necessary (with most of UK's grazing) especially with the alfalfa in HappyHoof.

I WOULD add salt (horses rarely get enough and it assists the absorption of calcium - which is handy when you want to remodel bone...) at 25g a day.

Magnesium too - it's responsible for over 300 actions in the body and horses almost always need more (even when the grazing is adequate). Lack of it manifests as footiness and also stress - hence why it is used as a calmer;)

Yea-sacc to aid in digestion (as his difficulty to settle places makes me feel he may need it).

These things won't do him any harm - even if they aren't required.

If he manages fine on the diet he is on, then cool. But if you find him continually footy, there are other tweaks you could do to help.
P.S. Tbs are often much more reactive to sugar than we tend to realise - just as much as cobs sometimes;)
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Progressive-Earth

http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.htm
Click to expand...

Thank you. :)

Will be off shopping tomorrow. :) And the links look great thanks - lots of reading for me tonight! :)
 
Delta99 said:
Check with your insurance, I know mine would cover 50% of the livery cost if I was to send my horse to Rockley. If you pay livery anyway, that may work out cheaper than doing it on your own.

Plus you would benefit from all of Nic's experience and not constantly wonder if you're doing things right. I'm doing the rehab at home and I can honestly say it's a constant worry.
Plus I think it's taking me much longer so again, even though my horse is at home and not costing me a vast amount, in the long run it will probably cost me the same.

Worth giving Rockley a call before you have the shoes taken off, I think they prefer to take the shoes off there as they know how to keep the horses comfortable initially.

I enquired about loss of use for my boy, you basically need a letter from the vet saying that the horse will not be suitable for the use it is insured for anymore. Have heard that insurance companies can be funny about the amount they pay out, it's market value which in the current market of course is probably a lot less than the horse is insured for...
Click to expand...

Sadly I don't think I will get any money for Rockley as hes no longer covered for navicular. :( And would still have to pay livery to keep my stable.

Loss of use sounds like it could be an avenue to investigate.. thanks for the info. :)
 
Just make sure that when you take the shoes off, no one cuts the sole or frog or bars without very good reason - he needs them and more so since he has been in shoes.

Other thing - keep your shoes and label them FR/FL etc.... You may be very surprised to see the change in shape of the hoof over time, and your old shoes are a great way of doing this.
 
Hey I wrote on your other post too lol! Yvonne is the trimmer whose number I gave you that I have for the boys, shes fab and will take you through rehab and has lots of time for you and any questions hun. She spends a couple of hours with you on the first visit especially and will go through diet, the grazing etc plus give you conditioning work to do with him (socks has to do 10mins in hand walking in the school when cut healed as the sand will help his horrendous feet). She also sells mag ox £10 for 1kilo and will bring with her, feel free to rob some off me in the meantime if you wish :D Also she will want to take the shoes off rather than the farrier so bear that in mind. I havent looked back with my lot and am sure you will be the same :D
 
I was due to meet the barefoot trimmer for the very first time - she had been trimming my horse before I bought her last month - but she did not show up! Left three messages to no avail.
Very disappointed, Molly is definatly needing a tidy up, now I'll have to find someone else. Any barefoot trimmers who cover Bridgwater, Somerset?
 
jaye1780 said:
Hey I wrote on your other post too lol! Yvonne is the trimmer whose number I gave you that I have for the boys, shes fab and will take you through rehab and has lots of time for you and any questions hun. She spends a couple of hours with you on the first visit especially and will go through diet, the grazing etc plus give you conditioning work to do with him (socks has to do 10mins in hand walking in the school when cut healed as the sand will help his horrendous feet). She also sells mag ox £10 for 1kilo and will bring with her, feel free to rob some off me in the meantime if you wish :D Also she will want to take the shoes off rather than the farrier so bear that in mind. I havent looked back with my lot and am sure you will be the same :D
Click to expand...

Sorry I missed this being away!

Thank you so so much for the mag ox and all the advice. :) Going to try and get those x rays then book in. :D
 
annabel2009 said:
Sorry I missed this being away!

Thank you so so much for the mag ox and all the advice. :) Going to try and get those x rays then book in. :D
Click to expand...

lol its ok I had seen you anyway :) you're welcome & got my fingers crossed it works for you! Good luck with the x rays, hope she doesnt grill you about why hehe! Yvonne said she may have some boots that fit if he needed them too, hoping like mad this works for you :D
 
Just reading through all this advice makes me think this really is HHO at its very best. Sometimes, there is such a huge amount of combined knowledge on here it takes your breathe away.

Back to the thread ..... For a similar problem, I went down the whole forage analysis thing with www.forageplus.com. The horses feet seem to be responding very well, so I am really pleased I did it but it is quite finickety and expensive.

The message which came out really load and clear though it that it is worth feeding mag ox and salt. When feeding the Mag Ox feed quite a lot though - I was recommended 20g/day. Also, did I read you feed Alfalfa? If so it may be worth dropping that and using something like Fast Fibre (Allen&Page) as some horses feet seem to react badly to Alfalfa.

Anyway, good luck whichever route you go down.
 
Thanks everyone. And totally agree canteron - I may not even have known about barefoot options/success for navicular horses if it hadn't been for HHO!

Little update.. he had his shoes off today and is already coping really well with the change, hes been on mag ox for a few days and the difference in his attitude is unbeliable hes gone from super stressy/wound up to mr chilled! Even having his shoes off (which he is normally naughty for his feet to be done) he just stood there falling asleep!!!! And yes feed Happy Hoof Canteron so definately looking into changing.

Thanks everyone again, will hopefully be posting positive updates over the next few months. :)
 
That just shows how much he needed it then. May be worth getting your pasture analysed and seeing what else is short/high.

Glad you are getting a good result. being bare is best for navicular, I'm firmly of the opinion that the concussion contributed by shoes does immense damage, and they are better off without it.
 
Hi everyone. :)

Just another update... and thank you. I wanted to thank all the people that persuaded me to take my tb barefoot especially Oberon for all her advice. :) I admit I wasn't sure and took some persuading but for anyone who is thinking about this IT IS worth doing, I thought he wouldn't work and should stick to following the shoeing etc but when I stood back and looked I realised it was just making him worse.

He had his shoes off 3 weeks ago and had his first barefoot trim today from a barefoot specialist, he was unbelivably good, he was tied up for his feet being done (I havn't be able to do this in years) normally he is rearing, dragging us, kicking out etc.

Hes gone from being obviously lame and unable to turn tight circles without nearly falling over, to very nearly sound and finding it very easy to do tight circles! The change in such a short space of time is amazing. The barefoot lady is very positive and I am hopeful I may be able to ride him again, when a couple of months ago after one particularly bad day I thought he would be being pts whilst now he is improving every week.

So thank you again to everyone that persuaded me and I'm glad I took the plunge and gave him a chance. :) It is also saving me tons of £££'s due to the price of specialist shoeing!!! Compared to a barefoot trim.
 
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