Barefoot after navicular diagnosis

[SweetDreams]

Any barefoot experts out there or anyone dealt with navicular and have decided to go barefoot! I’ve decided to take the plunge after I feel I’ve nothing left to loose! Any thoughts, tips, support or any advice at all to a very anxious owner! Only want the best for my mare - many thanks in advance

 

[ycbm]

We'll need photos. Taken with the camera on the floor from the front, the side and the back, and a sole shot from directly on top.

I've done several, my most spectacular one was failed by every shoeing and medical intervention available. He was delivered to me instead of to his final appointment with the vet.

Were there any bone chips or spurs on your x rays? The only failure I was involved with had a spur on the navicular bone. If you don't have something like that going on then you've got a really good chance your mate will come sound.
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[ester]

Didn't have a navicular dx, and didn't mri, official dx was coffin joint djd but given there was no degeneration I don't think that was correct.

Slowly slowly and patience. We started with 5 mins road walking a day, increased a bit week on week, by week 6 he went footy (that's not unusual) and was then booted for all road work for the next few months. - There's a lot more boot choice now than when we did it.

I prob did it slower than strictly necessary but he was older so that was going to be our main chance. Shoes came off in the march, had first canter september, did first dressage test november.

We only had one major blip where he spent the whole day on a patch of pea gravel we'd put in, for some reason they'd spent the previous night charging round the grass track in the field and had just made himself sore (did think poss abscess, trimmer was very good at hand holding at that point!)

Agree with ycbm we like good photos and they are a bit of a skill!

 

[ycbm]

Are you fit? Get ready to do lots of walking in hand until she starts to land heel first. I walk in hand while they are still landing toe first. You might need some slomo video to spot it.

I start with 20 minutes and build to an hour, every other day with the day in the middle to allow them to rebuild the damaged stuff.
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[ester]

Oh yes, all of mine was long reining (as he walked out better than rather than led) I can't remember when I actually got on. .

 

[SweetDreams]

Will get some pictures, no chip or spurs on X-rays but initial diagnosis was upward rotation of pedal bone after long term wedges and now no longer working, given poor prognosis wanted to give this a go before I have to give up

 

[SweetDreams]

Are you fit? Get ready to do lots of walking in hand until she starts to land heel first. I walk in hand while they are still landing toe first. You might need some video to spot it.

I start with 20 minutes and build to an hour, every other day with the day in the middle to allow them to rebuild the damaged stuff.
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How did you find the horses response initially after shoe removal?

 

[ycbm]

How did you find the horses response initially after shoe removal?

It varies. The ones with "navicular" had it because they had weak and badly shaped feet, so they found it more difficult than most of my others. Boots are a godsend and I would suggest you have some handy even if you don't immediately need them, but they might not fit for long. Big feet get smaller, small feet get bigger, quite quickly.

I've never booted for turnout.

You will need to be absolutely sure you have metabolic issues under control, as it causes thin soles and sore soles and laminar disconnection.

It's very common for horses to have no trouble at all for the first few weeks, then go footy. People normally describe it like "things coming alive again in a numb foot". Don't get despondent if that happens, it's normal.

Good luck!
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[ycbm]

I am emphatically NOT an expert, but if you are any where near me I'd be happy to hold your hand through the first few weeks/ months. There's nothing quite like seeing the horse in person.
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[Highmileagecob]

Read all you can about rehabilitating the hoof. Pete Ramey, Jamie Jackson, Rockley Farm etc., and be prepared for the long haul. Do you have a good farrier who is prepared to work with you?

 

[Birker2020]

My last horse had shoes removed as she had a check ligament issue and was fine after wearing shoes for nearly two decades. Then she went lame and like YCBM said spurs on the navicular aren't good and she was pts as there was nothing to be done and the spur was catching on the DDFT.

Present horse has had shoes off since Nov (he's rising 12) as initially it was necessary as he was going to the blood bank but I had a change of heart and he is now going to be retired privately. He's walking out very well now the frost/ice has gone. He's not got navicular but has changes in the coffin joint. Since I started using Keratex four times a week to harden his soles he's like a different horse.

I'm only telling you because I rather ignorantly I was always against going barefoot but seeing how it beneffited these two horses has changed my perception. I would certainly consider going barefoot with another horse and not necessarily because it was on medical grounds either.

 

[SweetDreams]

It varies. The ones with "navicular" had it because they had weak and badly shaped feet, so they found it more difficult than most of my others. Boots are a godsend and I would suggest you have some handy even if you don't immediately need them, but they might not fit for long. Big feet get smaller, small feet get bigger, quite quickly.

I've never booted for turnout.

You will need to be absolutely sure you have metabolic issues under control, as it causes thin soles and sore soles and laminar disconnection.

It's very common for horses to have no trouble at all for the first few weeks, then go footy. People normally describe it like "things coming alive again in a numb foot". Don't get despondent if that happens, it's normal.

Good luck!
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Thankyou! Yes the shoes have come off yesterday, I’ve also read low sugar and starch diet is a must too!

 

[SweetDreams]

I am emphatically NOT an expert, but if you are any where near me I'd be happy to hold your hand through the first few weeks/ months. There's nothing quite like seeing the horse in person.
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I’d really appreciate this, my horse means the world to me and I just feel really lost and overwhelmed with it all and terribly upset Thankyou

 

[SweetDreams]

Read all you can about rehabilitating the hoof. Pete Ramey, Jamie Jackson, Rockley Farm etc., and be prepared for the long haul. Do you have a good farrier who is prepared to work with you?

Hi thanks for your response, yes he’s great a bit shocked at my suggestion to remove but was willing to as I want to try everything I can for her

 

[Birker2020]

It's very common for horses to have no trouble at all for the first few weeks, then go footy. People normally describe it like "things coming alive again in a numb foot". Don't get despondent if that happens, it's normal.

Good luck!
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I didn't know that.

 

[ester]

Yes, that's why F was booted at the 6 week point as that's when he went footy. I think it happens pretty often.

 

[ycbm]

Will get some pictures, no chip or spurs on X-rays but initial diagnosis was upward rotation of pedal bone after long term wedges and now no longer working, given poor prognosis wanted to give this a go before I have to give up

This horse came sound, I'm pretty sure. If you page forwards in the blog you will find his end of term report when he went back home.

The horse with the wedges - continued!

The horse with the wedges, who was Friday's sneak preview , is actually called Dillon :-) He has come here straight from box rest, thanks p...

rockleyfarm.blogspot.com

 

[SweetDreams]

This horse came sound, I'm pretty sure. If you page forwards in the blog you will don't his end of term report when he went back home.

The horse with the wedges - continued!

The horse with the wedges, who was Friday's sneak preview , is actually called Dillon :-) He has come here straight from box rest, thanks p...

rockleyfarm.blogspot.com

This pretty much mirrors my horse!

 

[Highmileagecob]

So much research has been done over the last twenty years, to validate the rehab process, to show that constant shoeing can cause changes to the internal hoof, and to promote the benefits of working with the horse instead of reaching straight for remedial shoes. Farriers are beginning to catch up, but it is a slow process, and some of the farriers are still reluctant to accept that shoes don't cure all. Good luck, I hope yours is one of the enlightened ones!

 

[Tiddlypom]

If you need to boot, you can still turn out.

This is my homebred still adjusting 3 years ago. The vet said that she would never cope without shoes. We didn't MRI, but she had both front coffins medicated (plus her hocks and her SI...).



12 hours with the boots off overnight is plenty, I often had her out in her boots for 22 hours/day. It's easier with boots as the ground dries up for summer, so you're nearly there.

Whilst she is retired for other reasons, she is a perfectly comfortable pasture ornaments and doesn't need boots. I trim her myself.

Good luck.

 

[ycbm]

Boots can be very tricky for turnout, many horses will be rubbed by them. If you are going to use them then build up the time gradually until you are sure they don't rub. They will also slow down progress. I would only use them as a last resort if your horse is very uncomfortable in the field without them.
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[Tiddlypom]

The horse must always be comfortable, and if that means boots are needed to help the transition then boots can be used .

When the above mare's shoes were first pulled after she came back off loan she was so crippled that the first vet to see her thought that it was an acute laminitis attack. This was before I had any boots. She had to be box rested on a deep bed for a fortnight.

 

[Landcruiser]

Boots can be very tricky for turnout, many horses will be rubbed by them. If you are going to use them then build up the time gradually until you are sure they don't rub. They will also slow down progress. I would only use them as a last resort if your horse is very uncomfortable in the field without them.
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I'm feeling like a bad horse parent because my little mare is now wearing boots full time in her pen at the rehab yard. I was well aware she's been toe first or at best flat landing since I'd had her but put it down to poor trimming initially - she has "splatty" front feet, with no heels and thin soles. I've been struggling to get her to develop the back part of her front hooves, and booted her for hand walking. I've never turned out in boots because of fears of rubs/thrush. Then she injured her stifle and it all went pear-shaped. Rehab yard convinced me that she'd be more comfortable in boots, and she has wedge shaped pads in them. Couple of weeks later the difference is tremendous. For the first time she's landing heel first in front, and stepping out, almost tracking up, and walking with a purpose instead of dragging along. Not trying to deflect the thread but just to say turning out in boots can be a Good Thing. (Hers come off every day briefly, and have a bit of antifungal powder put in them - and it's been very dry weatherwise. And she's in a little pen - but no rubs and no thrush)

 

[ycbm]

I'm feeling like a bad horse parent because my little mare is now wearing boots full time in her pen at the rehab yard. I was well aware she's been toe first or at best flat landing since I'd had her but put it down to poor trimming initially - she has "splatty" front feet, with no heels and thin soles. I've been struggling to get her to develop the back part of her front hooves, and booted her for hand walking. I've never turned out in boots because of fears of rubs/thrush. Then she injured her stifle and it all went pear-shaped. Rehab yard convinced me that she'd be more comfortable in boots, and she has wedge shaped pads in them. Couple of weeks later the difference is tremendous. For the first time she's landing heel first in front, and stepping out, almost tracking up, and walking with a purpose instead of dragging along. Not trying to deflect the thread but just to say turning out in boots can be a Good Thing. (Hers come off every day briefly, and have a bit of antifungal powder put in them - and it's been very dry weatherwise. And she's in a little pen - but no rubs and no thrush)

You used them as a last resort, I don't see any conflict between what I wrote and your experience.

Thin soles are very often a metabolic issue, as are splatted weak feet, so if you don't get to a stage where you can drop the boots you could explore that.
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[Boulty]

I’d say if the horse is comfortable without boots then brilliant, turn out without. But if they’re not & especially if your ground is hard it is totally ok to use them for turnout initially & although they’ll slow down the conditioning to different surfaces if you put a pad in them then they will mimic being on a supportive surface and will give some stimulation to the back of the foot. I think Bethan at Gawsworth uses Equine Fusions without issues for this & when all the ground froze & was horrid & rutted I booted my never been shod horse in cavello treks with pads until it thawed because he was struggling (he has extensive sidebone, that we really really don’t want to upset).

 

[SweetDreams]

So we’ve had progress, now one week on without shoes, appears sound now, landing heel first (not perfect but on the way there), seems much more comfortable and confident bare foot!!! Fingers crossed, going to have to look at sizing for boots as I worry if I take her on uneven/rocky ground it will be painful for her..any recommendations for brands?

 

[Reacher]

So we’ve had progress, now one week on without shoes, appears sound now, landing heel first (not perfect but on the way there), seems much more comfortable and confident bare foot!!! Fingers crossed, going to have to look at sizing for boots as I worry if I take her on uneven/rocky ground it will be painful for her..any recommendations for brands?

Yay, good news! Cavallos are very forgiving size -wise and there are different models suited to different shaped feet eg cavallo trek, simples (round feet) and sports . Or you can send photos and measurements to someone like Hoof Boutique

 

[criso]

I found Fusions quite good for when feet were changing shape and also feet that didn't quite match.

Also suggest trying the hoofboot for sale groups on Facebook to buy secondhand and sell on when feet change.

 

[SweetDreams]

Thankyou for your responses so far on the boots, anyone used scoot boots?

 

[Marigold4]

I found Fusions quite good for when feet were changing shape and also feet that didn't quite match.

Also suggest trying the hoofboot for sale groups on Facebook to buy secondhand and sell on when feet change.

I second Equine Fusions - soft structure and so good for turning out in. I have never had a rub from these boots.