Barefoot and mental wellbeing

[SusieT]

Ok, let's start by removing from this group, the horses that are treated as any other shod horse is, i.e turned out in open pasture during the day and are barefoot and totally sound. Let's leave out the fact that many (shod and unshod horses) are kept in 24/7 or in unsuitable conditions.
I believe, and am interested in hearing opinions on, that mental wellbeing is more important that having a horse who does not wear shoes, if wearing shoes is not causing physical pain to the horse or there are extenuating circumstances as to why the horse cannot wear shoes. There are many, many sound horses out there wearing shoes (and plenty not wearing shoes). Why should this horse that is sound and happy in himself, be suddenly restricted in his turnout? One might say horses are born to be barefoot, they are also born to roam massive areas.
To place a horse behind an electric fence creates frustration. We all know that by the amount who escape. Horses enjoy wide open spaces, with appropriate shelter and food and water. Horses prefer not to be confined.
Muzzles are not pleasant either for horses to wear, I don't think anyone would argue with that.
So, obviously some of these things are necessary for horse welfare, to prevent the horse getting fat and developing laminitis, such as strip grazing.
But why is it better to restrict a horse from being in open spaces, from being able to let rip without having to hurtle round corners, or put him in a muzzle, for the sake of taking shoes off him (when he is totally sound in shoes). Additionally often there is 'hardcore' or similar added to 'condition' the feet, and the horse is forced to walk over an uncomfortable substance to get to food. It is not much better than a 'go kart' track, or a carousel pony that has to keep going round and round..(well.. that's an exaggeration obviously..but there are similarities)
Food is another point. Given the choice between hay and grass, particularly soaked hay, a horse will choose grass. Horses are often very keen to get grass and enjoy it. Refusing them access to grass, e.g keeping them in a dust paddock, solely for the purpose of taking shoes of this horse, to me again is sacrificing the mental well being of this horse for the sake of going barefoot.

So what I'm saying is that I believe the mental wellbeing of horses is being compromised by taking them barefoot, extenuating circumstances and the group that are sound at pasture excluded.
I'm sure I'm not the only one. Feel free to offer opinions

 

[Tr0uble]

Mine are both barefoot....and live no differently to a shod horse. Never footy or sorry. I wouldn't say they have a compromised mental wellbeing at all and would take great exception to anyone trying to suggest that was the case. I've had shod horses, I've had barefoot horses, I've had shod that have gone to barefoot....never had to take one back to shod though.

My horses get grass, they get all day turnout, 24/7 for most of the year. I muzzle, because I have good doers and prefer them to maintain a healthy weight yet stay out. I feed a good balanced diet to supplement this and to accomodate fo the work I am asking.

We do have gravel on the yard, not deliberately for any kind of conditioning, that is just the surface....I've never known either of mine to as much as misstep on it.

Why can't this barefoot Vs Shod argument be put to bed with an 'agree to disagree' or 'whatever is best for the horse' conclusion?

 

[Tr0uble]

Sorry, just re read your last bit about the sound at pasture excluded, so took your post in the wrong context. (It really is time to go to bed!)

Agree that horses that cannot maintain soundness barefoot should be shod.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

 

[Kallibear]

It's a genuine and pertinent point.

Like of the 'barefoot' brigadge' I beleive the ability to cope barefoot is an overall indication of health. If they need shoes on to work there's something not right.

However it has to be a balance. If given the chance my horses would choose never to be ridden, to live their lives in lovely rich dairy grass, stuffing their faces with their friends and a friendly human come down at least twice a day and give then a bucket of yummy hard feed. Unfortununatly for them they have a job to do and need restrained, in many ways, for their own good

I beleive, as long as a horse has friends, plenty of turnout time and enough to fibre to eat, they are perfectly content. That can be provided easily enough whilst also giving them the optimum 'barefoot diet'. A large dry lot paddock with hay and a couple of friends would be ideal. Since I don't HAVE a dry lot paddock ( ) they instead have a restricted grass paddock, plenty of turnout time and lots of friends.

But if I had a horse could could cope with NO grass then I'd have problems and end up shoeing it.

To me restricted grass is an acceptable change to their managagement to maintain them barefoot. It's not exactly extreme either.

Agree that horses that cannot maintain soundness barefoot should be shod.

Tr0uble: I think the point is what changes would be acceptable to ensure the horse stays sounds barefoot, not that unsound horses should be shod.

 

[AndySpooner]

I think that the majority of horses which are shod and have plenty of turnout in grass fields may well appear to be enjoying life and certainly not showing any detriment to their mental wellbeing.

However, the flaw in your argument is plain when you mention horses not feeling any pain in their feet when shod. How true this is, I believe that it is accepted by the majority now that shoeing horses takes the feeling out of the feet. I'm sure that the majority of horses kept as you describe are often subject to LGL, but this of course goes un noticed, it's only when an acute attack on already damaged lamina occurs that problems arise which then affect the horses mental wellbeing, in a massive way.

The real problem for all horses, shod or not, is the totally unsuitable grass they are expected to eat. Because of it's un suitability raises the issue of muzzels and strip grazing of which you speak. Added to this the amounts of unsuitable sugar coated hard feed fed to horses and the problems are compounded.

The happy looking bunch of horses, you describe, will also contain a number of individuals whose mental wellbeing has been compromised to such an extent by their lifestyle as to make them unmanageable, the term full of spring grass, normally covers it.

In essence then, the scenario you describe is false, I believe, because a horse cannot be healthy in mind unless he is healthy in body, unless he is sound barefoot, he cannot be sound shod.

 

[SusieT]

Kallibear-I agree with a lot of what you have said,a balance is the important thing.

'
The happy looking bunch of horses, you describe, will also contain a number of individuals whose mental wellbeing has been compromised to such an extent by their lifestyle as to make them unmanageable, the term full of spring grass, normally covers it'
Not in my happy little group of horses.. They are normal working horses, with variances of temperment from childs pony to competitive eventers, so a good example, varying between barefoot and non barefoot-all sound bad one of the unshod horses, and that's a ligament injury.

Regardless of what you believe (and I disagree with a lot of what you've said, but that's beside the point of this), is the mental wellbeing of an animal not to be considered and weighted equally?
The animal is sound (therefore painfree as far as ANY human can assess) and content in the field. So the 'cant be healthy in mind if unsound' arguement doesn't work for me. Do you feel that a life lived without grass, in restricted areas (for example the 'paddock paradise') is then an acceptable way to treat this animal in order to take the shoes off? Thus removing the natural functions and introducing frustration into the animals life? Behaviourally, this horse is then not having its five freedoms met, to express its natural behaviour.



On a separate note, when you mention shoeing taking the feeling out of a horses feet, how then can they still feel a stone (large obviously) Or a set of hoof testers? And as the foot when unshod is less sensitive to stones, would make the opposite arguement that there is then less feeling in the foot.

 

[AndySpooner]

Kallibear-I agree with a lot of what you have said,a balance is the important thing.

'
The happy looking bunch of horses, you describe, will also contain a number of individuals whose mental wellbeing has been compromised to such an extent by their lifestyle as to make them unmanageable, the term full of spring grass, normally covers it'
Not in my happy little group of horses.. They are normal working horses, with variances of temperment from childs pony to competitive eventers, so a good example, varying between barefoot and non barefoot-all sound bad one of the unshod horses, and that's a ligament injury.

Regardless of what you believe (and I disagree with a lot of what you've said, but that's beside the point of this), is the mental wellbeing of an animal not to be considered and weighted equally?
The animal is sound (therefore painfree as far as ANY human can assess) and content in the field. So the 'cant be healthy in mind if unsound' arguement doesn't work for me. Do you feel that a life lived without grass, in restricted areas (for example the 'paddock paradise') is then an acceptable way to treat this animal in order to take the shoes off? Thus removing the natural functions and introducing frustration into the animals life? Behaviourally, this horse is then not having its five freedoms met, to express its natural behaviour.



On a separate note, when you mention shoeing taking the feeling out of a horses feet, how then can they still feel a stone (large obviously) Or a set of hoof testers? And as the foot when unshod is less sensitive to stones, would make the opposite arguement that there is then less feeling in the foot.

I think the goal posts suddenly moved.

The mental wellbeing of any horse is important, and should be to any horse owner. I have had horses shod and am now barefoot, if it didn't work for my horses I'd have them shod. Going barefoot was not something that was lightly undertaken, and it was a decision made after much study and deliberation. I have to say that it has been a success and both horses are healthier and I believe happier for it. We have limited the amout of access to grass but this is because one horse is IR (the reason for going barefoot), but compensated in other areas.

Having had 30 horses all shod and working in the past, many of the problems we encountered then I have no doubt were caused by shoeing, and in hindsight, such a valuable tool, I wish I had gone barefoot then.

 

[SusieT]

And how have you limited that access? We all know you can be physically healthy and mentally understimulated and frustrated yes? How do you ensure you are meeting those needs and not just the physical ones?

 

[Alyth]

Just a couple of quick questions....

Have you all heard of "paddock paradise" or "track system" if so how many of you are able to implement this system and if you have how have you found it?

Also how many of you have horses that "weave" "wind suck" "self mutilate" or other "vices"???

Thank you, looking forward to your answers....

Alyth

 

[SusieT]

Yes paddock paradise is one of the main things I am interested in general discussion on, sorry, didn't get round to specifically mentioning it in the op.
I do not use it.
I have one weaver (incidentally the lame one in my herd), already present before I got him, in a restricted grazing system or when stressed, e.g. companion removed, he exhibits weaving. In an open field with companions-he does not.
Thankfully due to having poor body weight issues as opposed to excess body weight issues, this is not an issue as he does not need to be restricted.

 

[AndySpooner]

And how have you limited that access? We all know you can be physically healthy and mentally understimulated and frustrated yes? How do you ensure you are meeting those needs and not just the physical ones?

As you probably guess, I am totally against grazing horses on improved rye grass mixtures which I consider have no place in the management of horses. Therefore, the grass they do have access to is a mixture which has no rye grasses in it.

I don't like stabling horses either, and feel that you should substitute the word 'cage' for stable, to make it seem less cosy.

To this end we have devised a system whereby the two horses we have each have a stable, each stable has a rubber matting floor and a deep shavings bed. The stable doors are left open and the horses have access to a large gravel yard, part of which is pea gravel. There is water and a feeding station in the yard. The horses also have access to a 3 acre field the perimeter of which has a 15 meter wide track around it. There are feeding stations around the track. Several stretches around the track have been planted with trees to provide natural shelter and shade.

The horses have free choice whether to go round the track, stay in the yard or use the stables. The normal course of events is that because the feeding stations always have haylage in them, the horses tend to combine periods of feeding with periods either walking between stations or resting. They tend not to stand at one station until it is empty but move around from one to the other. The surface of the track is grass, but worn out. One concern was the sugar levels in stressed grass but this does not appear to have been an issue, probably because it is not rye grass, but that is supposition on my part.

They do use the stables to lie down in, particularly in wet weather. However, they choose not to use separate stables but can be found resting together in one stable, both lying down. Both stables appear to be used without favour. Occasionally, we do shut them in separate stables, for an hour or so, just in case we ever needed to stable one or other.

On a daily basis, both are taken in the school and given about an hour each of groundwork, and game playing. Sometimes we work them together asking them to perform tasks in unison, other times they work separately. Most days they then go for a hack out, this is 1.5hrs min. maybe up to 4hrs depending on the time available.

Neither horse shows any signs of vices of any description. Both are fit, fast and well behaved when ridden, forward going and push button rides. Both are ridden bitless in rope headcollars.

Apart from haylage, which is always available they are on Simple Systems Total Eclipse and unmolassed sugarbeet. Rock salt is always available. Both are mares, an Arab and an American Quarterhorse. Both are 11yrs old.

 

[tallyho!]

Hmm, seems the last place you should be looking if you want a bone to pick with the wellbeing of a barefoot horse...

 

[siennamum]

I think decision to remove shoes is made to seem too simple, and that mental health of the horse on a barefoot regime is a valid concern.

My youngster had never been shod, and had good hard, strong feet. He has never had hard food, but gets a supplement, lives on varied terrain in 20 acres in a herd, with mixed- but primarily rough grass/weeds. The fields are also very stony, as are all our lanes, we live on limestone - lots of quarries.

He didn't want to work with the same enthusiasm as he does now he is shod, and so was stuffy and a bit backward. His action shod is unrecognisably better, he is more confident putting his foot down and strides out, one assumes because he is now comfortable. He is still surefooted and careful but is now atletic and will be a far more successful competition horse .

To persist in keeping him shoeless would have really deprived him of the comfort and enjoyment he now benefits from, I can't see what lifestyle changes I could have made to improve his chances of being barefoot - we hacked for a year shoeless, he was no different at the end than he was at the start.

 

[sleepingdragon10]

AndySpooner, you would appear to have a utopian paradise set up for your horses.
There are a significant majority of owners, though, who have to keep horses at livery where this type of set up is unfeasible.
My pony is unshod, always has been, he's laminitic and hates being stabled for long periods of time. His paddock is the only paddock this year not being fertilised, thank god, but I will still have to put a track system in place, restrict grazing, muzzle etc to keep his weight in check and keep him fit.
He doesn't get a commercial mix, just alfa chaff and flax oil, so is not over fed.
As the grass is now coming through his hay will be soaked from now on.

If, on this regime, he is unhappy remaining unshod then I don't see how putting shoes on him would be a retrograde step.

 

[Clava]

I find this a rather odd comparison, rather than comparing horses as a whole we are looking at just the mental well being of restrictive grazing necessary for some horses which to me is nothing compared to the stresses caused by stabling (and the many stress related vices that go with that, cribbing, wind sucking, door kicking etc). Fortunately I only have to restrict my laminitic pony and would if shod or not, but he always has company and plenty of attention.

 

[Jericho]

Indent usually comment on this barefoot issue as it's such a hot bed! However this thread did have some resonance with me. Our history: 12 yr old commie x tb mare ex eventer probably always been shod. Has very good hard feet, and seemed an ideal candidate to go barefoot. Took back shoes off and was fine and coped fine with the one or two hours that we hacked out a week. Discussed issue with farrier, agreed that there seemed no reason that fronts could come off too. I did my research, changed her to barefoot diet before the shoes came off, put some pea gravel, spent about £300 getting a pair of horse boots to fit properly to help her with more challenging hacks. After initial 'she seems great' littering around on soft grass it became clear that different terrains she really did not like going on. boots or not boots. She wore the boots sometimes but I knew that we also needed to take the boots off to get the foot 'conditioned'.

I did more research - took her off the grass completely for 3 weeks - no difference, except I had a very fed up mare, confined to a dust paddock, seperated from her friends, not allowed to graze and fed soaked hay from a trickle feeder. I led her in hand on roads to try and encourage the hoof to grow. Her hoof wasn't growing at all. I even got the vet to check her for lameness, laminitis etc. She was sound but just did not like walking on round stony ground.

I was one stressed owner constantly worrying about her feet, feeling her pulses, heat, watching where we rode, feeling every stone she stood on, wondering if the boots were rubbing her or causing other problems, and avoiding mud, long grass, cantering, popping a log in case the boots came off and made her slip.

I concluded that I as a owner could not provide her with the environment to live like a natural horse , i.e. Many acres of rough terrain for her to walk on many hours of a day every day and sparse grazing which she has to search for and therefore have feet that were totally natural.

I shod her front feet again after about 8 months of not much fun for me or her. We are back to hacking out again with confidence, where we want, when we want, her striding out, cantering, galloping, jumping without wincing or carefully choosing her route. She lives out 24/7 on fairly poor grazing of 4 acres with her friend and I think she is happy, she seems it - she has no behavioural issues other than being a bit aloof at times which is completely unrelated. Would she have been so happy confined to a small patch of dust or 12x12 box with one view. No. Would she have developed psychological issues and other problems, even i did let her have turnout assuming the grass sensitvity wasnt an issue, probably, who knows. I certainly noticed a developing reluctance to hack out. How long before she started napping, bucking, refusing to be caught, be mounted?

Anyway as always , some horses can go barefoot, some can't, some with very little management some with lots!

I do take slight exception to comments that shoeing masks a horses lameness. My horse is not lame. She sometimes gets a little sensitive to too much sugars in the grass but I recognise the signs and restrict as necessary for short periods. She was uncomfortable without shoes but not lame. Therefore I don't feel her shoes are masking any pain. She shows no pain issues with being shod or her feet touched, handled etc.

So in answer to op, sometimes the consequences of managing a barefoot horse will compromise their environment to an extent where the mental well being of the horse is to its detriment but hey the horse has fantastic rock crunching feet! :-D

 

[criso]

I think it is a valid question but not one that is limited to barefoot. The question is how far do you restrict a horse to keep it safe and healthy. My personal dislike is individual turnout, little strips with one horse on each because people are worried they may injure themselves if they play but lots of people like this and it works for them.

My horse is barefoot and his shoes were taken off after soft tissue damage to the back of the foot had failed to respond to conventional treatment/shoes over an 18 month period of time.

One of the things I was struggling with was that he was not able to cope with turnout without going virtually non weight bearing (this was not grass related as the same thing happened in the sand school).

So I was faced with keeping him in 24 hours so he was sound enough for light work. He hated being on box rest and I would probably have pts before subjecting him to that. I went down that route because I was not prepare to compromise my horse's mental wellbeing.

He was rehabbed for me at Rockley farm.
While there he was depending on time of year/time of day he was on sometimes on the tracks and woods and was honestly just as happy there as in the fields. The gravel you mention was a type that they found especially comfortable to walk on when the sensitive ones first come out of shoes and is very useful for speeding up the rehab process in horses that have come there with significant injuries or foot problems. It is not a case of forcing horse over harsh surfaces to toughen them up.

Frankie is a very bright expressive horse, if he's not happy everyone knows about it, believe me. As long as he had friends to play with, space to move around and something to put in his stomach he didn't seem worried about the grass and made no effort to get to the fields.

Now back home is goes out daytime in the winter and nighttime in the summer and is perfectly happy with this arrangement, he wasn't stressed in the summer when the grass burnt off so much we had to put hay out.

In many countries around the world there is not the grass we have anyway, in the south of spain and parts of the US horses are kept on dry lots with with hay. When I did a riding holiday on South Africa the large fields the horses went out in at night had no grass at least not at the time of the year I was there, though there were scrubby, spikey sort of plants there could pick at. I only mention the ones I have seen, there are dozens of places like and are we limiting horse ownership to a few temperate zones where grass is freely available.

Yes he loves grass however he also has stolen and shown an interest in pot noodles, ham sandwiches, prawn crackers and a nokia x6, he would eat lots of unsuitable things but I see it as part of my role as a owner to provide lots of healthy things and restrict his access to unhealthy food.

What would concern me is that if my horse was showing foot pain when eating grass ( and i was sure in my own mind that that was the cause) then while I could put shoes on and make him more comfortable, what are the long term issues. If that reaction is still going on under the shoes, is damage being done slowly that I am not aware of.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i think it is a valid concern.

the lady that trims mine uses the paddock paradise system and it works wonderfully for hers (all prone to weight gain). they get plenty of stimulation-poor grass to eat, hedges and herb areas to browse, natural obstacles eg logs to move round, and do ridden and in hand work.
all are sound on all surfaces though, so i guess happy in body and mind.

mine are all barefoot but happy to do everything a shod horse does. 2 of them do get muzzled in the summer but would have to be muzzled whether shod or barefoot-i find they are far less frustrated muzzled and able to trickle feed than confined to dusty tiny paddocks.

my 2 big boys hacked to use and indoor arena yesterday, 45mins there and 45mins back on the road and a very lumpy gritty long drive-were absolutely fine and stomped over it without a single off step, and one is a TB!

 

[chestnut cob]

Just a quick reply. Assuming I have read the OP correctly, you are asking is it fair to restrict a horse's turnout in order to keep him barefoot?

How is this any different to restricting a shod horse's turnout to manage his weight? My horse is shod (though his back shoes are hopefully about to come off, and maybe the fronts later in the year). In the winter he is in overnight and in summer he comes in during the day usually to manage his waistline. But how is that OK and bringing a barefoot horse in *isn't*?

 

[mrdarcy]

I think the OP is missing the point. If a horse, after transitioning to barefoot, is still footy and to be sound needs grazing restricted then that isn't something putting shoes on will cure. The horse may appear sound but the shoes are simply masking the problem, not solving it. If someone wants to argue that shoes make horses less sugar sensitive then I'd love to hear it!

 

[use a name]

Just in my opinion,its all very well the horses mental wellbeing,obviously a huge factor!(im not disagreeing with that)but what about the damage to the foot being taken into account?I cant say iv come across a horse that actually needs shoes,maybe just me.But surely you have to agree the damage shoes cause??I understand the horse must not be stressed too much,and lots of people say their horse is better on shoes.Ok fair enough.Also,are there any horses kept barefoot since birth?Because thats also a big factor to how they might cope differently.I doubt there will ever be a halfway point in this,because we all agree to different things!

 

[use a name]

I think the OP is missing the point. If a horse, after transitioning to barefoot, is still footy and to be sound needs grazing restricted then that isn't something putting shoes on will cure. The horse may appear sound but the shoes are simply masking the problem, not solving it. If someone wants to argue that shoes make horses less sugar sensitive then I'd love to hear it!

well said.a good point

 

[eahotson]

My horse is a Welsh Cob. In a perfect world I would keep him onthe sort of pasture found on hillside, out 24 hours a day etc.Just aint possible.He lives in Cheshire where the grazing is mostly beef cattle variety.He has to come in in the winter.He manages and seems to look very well and happy actually.People forget that the 'wild' wasn't always happy for horses and mostly they died by about 7 or 8 years of age.No suplementry feed in the winter, no vetinary attention etc.Horses, like people are pretty adaptable so long as they are managed sympathetically and MOSTLY I don't think shoeing hurts them.

 

[Mrs B]

I think the OP is missing the point. If a horse, after transitioning to barefoot, is still footy and to be sound needs grazing restricted then that isn't something putting shoes on will cure. The horse may appear sound but the shoes are simply masking the problem, not solving it. If someone wants to argue that shoes make horses less sugar sensitive then I'd love to hear it!

I don't think the OP is missing the point at all and I agree with what she's saying. If it can be achieved, for mental well-being I believe horses should be out as much as possible in small herds in a large area of mixed terrain and with varied interest - hills, hedges etc. and varied grasses.

You need to define 'soundness'. To me, soundness in a horse means the ability to move freely and with an even footfall with no pain apparent.

Therefore, my shod horse is sound. Horses are not stoics - if anything is uncomfortable or hurts, they will tell you. What 'problem' would I be masking? It's not a 'problem' to my happy, sound, mentally health horse.

Not many can create a set up like Andy's. For the rest, I'd rather see a happy, shod horse in a group in a field, than an unshod horse in a contrived, confined 'dry' area where I would say it is much more likely to feel stressed if not allowed to exhibit natural behaviour.

I haven't posted on any of these shod/barefoot posts before as I think it should be up to the owner to decide what is best for their own horse. What does tick me off, having read them, is the 'holier than thou, you know not what you do by keeping shoes on your horse' attitude. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way.Just personal preference.

 

[*hic*]

IMHO:
If the horse has rockhard feet keep him barefoot and treat as any other horse.

If the horse has rockhard feet and a predisposition to overweight / laminitis keep him barefoot and restrict his grass whether by paddock paradise (or whatever it's called) or strip grazing or by running him over grass that has been shortened by sheep.

If the horse has unknown feet check with farrier and give unshod a try. I've done this with all of mine that arrived shod and if they aren't happy (ie lame) then on go the shoes again, fronts first and then backs as well if there's still an issue. I don't have horses to make them lame for either principle or to save a few quid. I certainly wouldn't keep going for a couple of years - a couple of weeks is enough with a lame horse because you've changed its management IMHO.

"Transitioning" to me means "it appears lame / footsore and we're hoping it will get over it".

If I could keep all mine unshod I would, cheaper and safer. Currently only one of the six I'm in control of is shod, however if any of the others need shoeing for whatever reason it will be done.

 

[Serephin]

I can't be bothered to argue but I just wanted to say that my farrier showed me where my horse's frogs were bruised from stones whilst he was shod.

So his feet were still getting sore despite the shoes, but he wasn't lame. I thought that was interesting.

 

[use a name]

I don't think the OP is missing the point at all and I agree with what she's saying. If it can be achieved, for mental well-being I believe horses should be out as much as possible in small herds in a large area of mixed terrain and with varied interest - hills, hedges etc. and varied grasses.

You need to define 'soundness'. To me, soundness in a horse means the ability to move freely and with an even footfall with no pain apparent.

Therefore, my shod horse is sound. Horses are not stoics - if anything is uncomfortable or hurts, they will tell you. What 'problem' would I be masking? It's not a 'problem' to my happy, sound, mentally health horse.

Not many can create a set up like Andy's. For the rest, I'd rather see a happy, shod horse in a group in a field, than an unshod horse in a contrived, confined 'dry' area where I would say it is much more likely to feel stressed if not allowed to exhibit natural behaviour.

I haven't posted on any of these shod/barefoot posts before as I think it should be up to the owner to decide what is best for their own horse. What does tick me off, having read them, is the 'holier than thou, you know not what you do by keeping shoes on your horse' attitude. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way.Just personal preference.

Why would you have a barefoot horse in a dry dusty small area?Mine arn't.Their habitat is just the same as any shod horse.Why shouldn't it be?Also,id like to make a point logically.The frog is supposed to pump blood round the hoof when in contact with the floor.Its also there to absorb shock on impact.With shoes on its unable to do this.It is just possible the horse stops feeling so much in the hoof.Suddenly,you take the shoes off(if you do)and their soft feet that havnt come into contact with the ground for who knows how long,its gonna be a complete shock to the system and its going to hurt.Thats why i think dont put shoes on in the first place.With people we wear shoes,and if we were to walk on stony ground,we are going to struggle,our feet have never had a chance to harden up.And yes,it can be done,but in modern society people wear shoes.But the one thing with people is our feet come into contact with ground there for pumping blood round our feet.

 

[mrdarcy]

What 'problem' would I be masking? It's not a 'problem' to my happy, sound, mentally health horse.

If a horse is very sugar/starch sensitive then it's not just the feet that are affected. They are the most outwardly obvious sign that there is a problem i.e. in a horse without shoes the horse becomes footy when its system is overloaded with sugar, in a shod horse with their feet held off the ground by shoes this footiness is not as easily seen. So the effects on the feet are the same whether shod or barefoot i.e. the feet become inflamed and sore - it's just might not see it when the horse is shod. The shoes haven't removed the inflammation - how could they? And if the feet suffer repeated low level inflammation, slowly but surely they will become weaker and more prone to soft tissue injury, long term. On top of this if the horses system is overloaded with sugar then it's not just the feet that are adversely affected. The hind gut will be acidic, which can lead to stomach ulcers and toxins will be circulating round the whole horse causing longer terms problems to liver and kidneys.

Shoe your horse or don't - either way ensuring the horse isn't eating a diet that overloads it's system with sugar/starch is crucial. One of the many benefits of barefoot is that you can see almost instantly if this is happening and do something about it. In the shod horse how will you ever know?

 

[paddy555]

Just a quick reply. Assuming I have read the OP correctly, you are asking is it fair to restrict a horse's turnout in order to keep him barefoot?

How is this any different to restricting a shod horse's turnout to manage his weight? My horse is shod (though his back shoes are hopefully about to come off, and maybe the fronts later in the year). In the winter he is in overnight and in summer he comes in during the day usually to manage his waistline. But how is that OK and bringing a barefoot horse in *isn't*?

no one seemed to answer your question. Also why is it any different to restricting turnout to manage/prevent laminitis? Surely that is something that every horse owner is considering, mentally at least, every day in the UK?

Someone asked for the definition of a sound horse. To my mind that is simple it is a barefoot horse that can gravelcruch over anything, at speed and for long rides and to be able to do that week after week, month after month. To be able to do that everything must be right about the horse, not only it's feet and limbs but it's diet as well.
That for me is true soundess. If it can do that booted or shod then fine but the crunch comes when you take the crutches ie the boots or shoes off.