Barefoot article in H&H - absolute tosh?

Oberon said:
I believe they are searching for a suitable assassin to deal with you.....:D
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ROFL :D

My unshod mare had a horrible run of abscesses last year...we'd only just have got rid of one when the next one would surface. Vet suggested shoes, I suggested testing for cushings. Guess who was right? :D Suffice it to say *touch wood* she has not had an abscess since the Prascend started to take effect. That was over 4 months ago - last year, she couldn't seem to last a fortnight without one!
 
I had a dreadfull experience going barefoot and would never have a horse unshod again. I accept some horses can cope barefoot but many cannot. I have to say I often see people hacking out locally on barefoot horses who look footy and uncomfortable to me. It definitely isn't always the best way to go.
 
The point I am making is that by ridiculing claimes that can be qutie valid you don't help the barefoot 'movement' -just smacks of being closed minded like one would accuse the shod brigadee of being.
 
The thing that I want the general horse owning public, farriers Vets to realise, is that you don't have to automatically slap shoes on when a horse starts ridden work. Go by each individual case. I also feel that as things are at the moment, owners need to understand hoof balance and how diet contributes to hoof health. Thirdly, I want barefoot rehab to be a genuine option, that Vets support for hoof problems (plus more proper research RE hooves).

So I'm for treating horses as individuals, more knowledge and research. You can call me closed minded if you like, but sadly the people that I met who were terribly closed minded when struggling with my mare's hoof problems, were Vets and Farriers.
 
Well if that article is true im selling my so called TB, I dont like cobs

He has only been barefoot this year so still nail holes and he has awesome hard feet
 
vanessarimmer said:
I had a dreadfull experience going barefoot and would never have a horse unshod again. I accept some horses can cope barefoot but many cannot. I have to say I often see people hacking out locally on barefoot horses who look footy and uncomfortable to me. It definitely isn't always the best way to go.
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I'm sure it's not always the best way to go - but as said by Faracat - treating them like individuals is perhaps the way to go.

I was surprised when I came to horsey life in the UK that the culture seemed automatically turned to shod or not working and unshod. In my horsey life in the US, we used to shoe some, some barefoot. Some that had shoes would go barefoot all winter and then get shoes on in the spring. Only one horse that I ever had in the US HAD to wear shoes, but that was because he had a corrective shoe on one foot where he was missing half his hoof from a field accident as a yearling. But even he was shod only on the front.

I am curious though as to what happened with your unshod horse to put you off forever?
 
I implore anyone who has the H&H to look at the article on barefoot, then turn the page…
You will see ’parkers Power enjoyment at jumping‘, you will also see that the horse appears to be wearing H/bars!
I will assume this is because the heels are virtually non existent and there is a need to transfer some of the concussion on to the frogs via the shoe! (could be due to his racing history)
So maybe some ’top performance ’ horses find the wearing of normal shoes unhelpful when performing, if this is the case then it is time for an article explaining why the caudal third of the foot is so vital when it comes to soundness and balance.
Just to say ’shoes are better’ is not enough, we must educate owners, vets, farriers and dare I say some trimmers that the job of all of us is to produce a starting point at which a decision can be made.
If we recognise that the only compromise in a healthy, well managed barefoot horse is done by the owner then that is their choice.
If we say that due to the workload the horse MUST wear shoes then we are creating compromise that could be starting from a point that will end up with the horse having to wear ’corrective shoes’ for that is what they are! Something has happened that needs correcting and it is more than likely been the shoe that has caused it.
I have in the past fitted hundreds of these shoes and had great results, but since only using barefoot methods I have also had (like others) equal results
My point is: they are two different professions and they must each have the respect of the other.
Done well they both can sit beside each other and be proven successful.
 
I honestly never believed that my mare would cope barefoot, but 6 months on and she is doing brilliantly, my old farrier told me my mare would ware her heels away if I took her shoes off, and last time he was on the yard he wanted me to trot her up to prove she was sound. Which I refused to do arrrhhhh off to do a 12 mile ride tomorrow on my horse with no heels lol!!!
 
SusieT said:
The point I am making is that by ridiculing claimes that can be qutie valid you don't help the barefoot 'movement' -just smacks of being closed minded like one would accuse the shod brigadee of being.
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Agree with this.
Thee only time my TB has ever had an abscess was 9 months after her shoes came off.
The reason was because of the relentless rain last year, gravel entered the hoof because it was compromised due to excessive moisture.

BTW,she has excellent feet, no metabolic issues and was trotting over rough ground the day after her shoes came off.

Had she been shod, gravel could not have entered the white line.
 
I'm surprised that posters normally so insistent on research and proof will happily swallow 'facts' from just perusing a forum or reading it in a magazine?

There fact is that there are no statistics or proof that barefoot horses suffer more abscesses than shod. It's unfair and wrong of H&H to scaremonger and suggest things that aren't true. That's the point.

Surely all any of us want is HEALTHY hooves?

HEALTHY hooves will suffer less abscesses than UNHEALTHY hooves.

Perhaps we should focus on how to make hooves more healthy than try to point score on who's right and who's wrong :rolleyes:

BTW - I'm not part of any movement and I have no vested interest. I just wanted to learn how to keep my horse's hooves healthy and keep them sound. Along the way I've learnt a couple of things that I try to share. If that threatens some people - then tough ;).
 
Oberon said:
I'm surprised that posters normally so insistent on research and proof will happily swallow 'facts' from just perusing a forum or reading it in a magazine?

There fact is that there are no statistics or proof that barefoot horses suffer more abscesses than shod. It's unfair and wrong of H&H to scaremonger and suggest things that aren't true. That's the point.

Surely all any of us want is HEALTHY hooves?

HEALTHY hooves will suffer less abscesses than UNHEALTHY hooves.

Perhaps we should focus on how to make hooves more healthy than try to point score on who's right and who's wrong :rolleyes:

BTW - I'm not part of any movement and I have no vested interest. I just wanted to learn how to keep my horse's hooves healthy and keep them sound. Along the way I've learnt a couple of things that I try to share. If that threatens some people - then tough ;).
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very well put
 
horserider said:
Agree with this.
Thee only time my TB has ever had an abscess was 9 months after her shoes came off.
The reason was because of the relentless rain last year, gravel entered the hoof because it was compromised due to excessive moisture.

BTW,she has excellent feet, no metabolic issues and was trotting over rough ground the day after her shoes came off.

Had she been shod, gravel could not have entered the white line.
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There were plenty of shod horses which abscessed last year.
 
I thought barefoot threads had moved away from the notion that if you're a paid up member of the cult, your horse's hooves will always be perfect and rock crunching.

Loving the blame culture from the perfect ones. Nothing's changed.
 
horserider said:
I thought barefoot threads had moved away from the notion that if you're a paid up member of the cult, your horse's hooves will always be perfect and rock crunching.

Loving the blame culture from the perfect ones. Nothing's changed.
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I don't think it makes you a member of a "cult" to believe that when things are wrong with management and it effects the hooves, it shouldn't be put down to "the lack of shoes is the cause of the problems".

That's getting it backwards.

After all management issues are sorted, only then can that be said.
But it's the management, feeding, exercise, proper trimming ect. that needs to be got right regardless.

Why would anybody want a horse with poor/bad feet and then say it's all OK because shoeing can compensate?
Well what when shoeing can't and/or possibly makes things worse?

Get the feet good and healthy and then decide whether to shoe, not before. Then at least that decision is based whether the horse can truly not cope without.
 
Just in case anyone has misunderstood me, perhaps I can repeat my post?. It should have read:



My horse also abscessed last year. I don't blame it on him being shoeless because plenty of shod horses also abscessed last year.
 
Do you know I reread the article following this post - I do not see it as swaying one way or another toward barefoot or shod.

I have 3 barefoot and 1 shod so a foot in both camps so to speak. The material quoted was that study that looked at the different barefoot brumbies etc from different environments. The abscess data that was quoted as in 1 vet practice and in the author's experience. I did not read that as meaning it was correct accross barefoot horses, just what he had personally found.

I read this as quite a balanced article basically stating that some research has been done and disease found in mustangs that was previously believed not to be present like laminitis and side bone.It also said that barefoot suited some horses better than others, which is undeniably true and that diet was very important to manage a bf horse. Both my Dales and my WB have great bf feet and I do believe that they are predisposed with good feet. I do manage their diet well, but equally I have a cob that cannot cope bf.

Call me positive, but I did not see this article as bf slating at all - I saw it as pointing out the problem in both camps and showing that farriers are recognising more and more people want to try bf.
 
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My horse abscessed last year for the first time since I have owned her in nearly 14 years. She has been barefoot for 18 months, but also has just developed cushings and was living out in rather a wet field (anyone remember rather a lot of mud?). I feel, and the vet agreed, that the cushings, rather than the lack of shoes, was the predisposing factor.
She also hacks out on roads, tracks, fields, schools, does whatever we want and is sound and happy. Last weekend we went to a sponsored ride and did ten miles without wearing her feet down to bloody stumps :eek:.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Do you know I reread the article following this post - I do not see it as swaying one way or another toward barefoot or shod.

I have 3 barefoot and 1 shod so a foot in both camps so to speak. The material quoted was that study that looked at the different barefoot brumbies etc from different environments. The abscess data that was quoted as in 1 vet practice and in the author's experience. I did not read that as meaning it was correct accross barefoot horses, just what he had personally found.

I read this as quite a balanced article basically stating that some research has been done and disease found in mustangs that was previously believed not to be present like laminitis and side bone.It also said that barefoot suited some horses better than others, which is undeniably true and that diet was very important to manage a bf horse. Both my Dales and my WB have great bf feet and I do believe that they are predisposed with good feet. I do manage their diet well, but equally I have a cob that cannot cope bf.

Call me positive, but I did not see this article as bf slating at all - I saw it as pointing out the problem in both camps and showing that farriers are recognising more and more people want to try bf.
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Y&C - there were two thing that made me sad when I read the article. The first was that it implied that TB's and PBTB's were unable to be shoeless and in work. How many times on here do you read the phrase 'typical TB feet/hooves'? TB's and PBTB's really can have healthy, well balanced hooves that are capable of working BF/unshod. The article said that selecting for speed had been detrimental to TB's 'hoof type and conformation'.

However, Tb's (especially flat racers), are shod from a very early age, and this, not the breed, is thought by many to be the cause of the 'typical TB feet'. More research needs to be done, but taking off the shoes and leaving the horse in the field isn't really enough. The hooves need stimulation (exercise) and a good diet too.

If you do want to shoe, surely it's better for the hooves to be healthy in that situation too? The link between diet, exercise and healthy hooves is becoming more known. The low sugar, high fibre 'barefoot diet' is surely a good diet for all equines shod and unshod?



The second part of the article that I picked up on, was the reference to working on abrasive surfaces (roads and stone, according to the article) and the need for shoes. Roadwork is so good for BF/unshod hooves. I worked out that I need to do a minimum of 5 hours roadwork, per week with my mare to keep her breakover correct. She still needs trimming regularly though because the hooves grow faster than I can wear them out.
 
Faracat said:
Y&C - there were two thing that made me sad when I read the article. The first was that it implied that TB's and PBTB's were unable to be shoeless and in work. How many times on here do you read the phrase 'typical TB feet/hooves'? TB's and PBTB's really can have healthy, well balanced hooves that are capable of working BF/unshod. The article said that selecting for speed had been detrimental to TB's 'hoof type and conformation'.

However, Tb's (especially flat racers), are shod from a very early age, and this, not the breed, is thought by many to be the cause of the 'typical TB feet'. More research needs to be done, but taking off the shoes and leaving the horse in the field isn't really enough. The hooves need stimulation (exercise) and a good diet too.

If you do want to shoe, surely it's better for the hooves to be healthy in that situation too? The link between diet, exercise and healthy hooves is becoming more known. The low sugar, high fibre 'barefoot diet' is surely a good diet for all equines shod and unshod?



The second part of the article that I picked up on, was the reference to working on abrasive surfaces (roads and stone, according to the article) and the need for shoes. Roadwork is so good for BF/unshod hooves. I worked out that I need to do a minimum of 5 hours roadwork, per week with my mare to keep her breakover correct. She still needs trimming regularly though because the hooves grow faster than I can wear them out.
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Last week when my farrier came to pull shoes from my boy, I did specifically ask him about any care I needed to do for his newly bared hooves. He said the only thing he usually suggests is to use Keratex or Rock Hard on the soles/frog only - but not on the outside of the hoof. He said that doing road work on tarmac was good for blood stimulation and horn health, concrete was bad as it doesn't have enough give like tarmac. I asked about diet, he felt that a good diet is a must regardless of whether shod or not - and in fact shoeing probably required a "better diet" as the shoes are harder on the feet than keeping bare - that the nails are the evil thing to the foot. Now, is coming from a traditional blacksmith, whom I trust implicitly. My horse has a boxy foot, one of which has a concave shape to it and we've kept shod for support. He's also a weaver (only at feeding times if he's not been fed quick enough) but that can wear that part of the foot which we've been trying to support - however as he's out longer now he's weaving less.

So, my own conclusion - after reading lots of theories and hearing from my farrier is this:

Don't change too much if you're already doing the "right thing" - give a little time for adjustment and then just get on with it.

Incidentally, for me the right thing has been low sugar/high fiber diet as I have an incredibly good doer who has just been blood tested for Cushings and has come back borderline results. He has been on a low sugar / high fiber diet for the few years that I've had him, purely for weight management.

I can always go back to shod if necessary. His feet aren't "ideal" but I would rather give the barefoot thing a go just to save him from pulling the front shoe off that wonky foot as he's prone to doing.

By the way, I'm not willing to pay the membership fees to the BFT - just doing what I think is common sense approach to my horse's management. ;)
 
PucciNPoni said:
By the way, I'm not willing to pay the membership fees to the BFT - just doing what I think is common sense approach to my horse's management. ;)
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I think that's what we all do. I'm recognised as a fully paid up member of the barefoot taliban, yet my horses eat molassed sugar beet and molassed horse and pony cubes. We just all do what works, and what works differs from horse to horse.
 
'However, Tb's (especially flat racers), are shod from a very early age, and this, not the breed, is thought by many to be the cause of the 'typical TB feet'. More research needs to be done, but taking off the shoes and leaving the horse in the field isn't really enough. The hooves need stimulation (exercise) and a good diet too.'

I agree, my boy is an ex-racer, and his feet had been shod poorly for many years and this caused his feet to be very flat and splayed. after quite a number of years of having him out of racing his feet still weren't great, I think my old farriers just kind of excepted he will just have flat splayed feet because he is an ex-racer. my new farriers have worked hard and he has gone done a shoe size, trips less and his feet look tiny now! he does however have very cracked poor quality hooves what ever I have tried over the past 7 years. he has a healthy, nearly no sugar diet. this this is a tb problem some get worse than others I think. he really cannot cope without shoes

I agree there needs to be more communication and harmony between shoed and shoeless, instead of each 'group' criticising each other!
there needs to be more knowledge on shoeless. I've read loads on this forum, but from most people and yards I've been at they all seem to follow the policy if it works it must be shoed
 
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