Barefoot cruelty? Abcesses in particular...

snopuma

snopuma

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I was reading the other thread and was interested in the many mentions of abcesses

Abcesses occur in the most part from a lack of circulation to the said area, we all know that blood has a job it keeps all the toxins moving, for instance in first aid I have learnt that if you happen across a person who has for instance a tree fallen across their legs then the first thing you ask them is how long they have been stuck, any more than 10 minutes and you must not try to move them yourself, the blood pools and seperates into good and bad(toxins) should you move the tree the rush of toxins to the heart will kill them, they have to have a tranfusion or if they have been their hours amputation.

So with this thought in mind abcesses of this nature in the hoof occur when toxins pool in one area due to bad or no circulation, either can happen whether shod or not due to the fact that the hoof is not working at its optimum and then the abcesses occur, so we can all de-tox our horses in whatever way we deem suitable and that would help but also the fact that the hoof needs to be corrected/balanced/trimmed to best suit the horse and their individual needs.

I personnally prefer barefoot, but would be interested to hear of other people view on abcesses.
 
Did you have to head this "barefoot cruelty"?


I have seen no noticeable difference between abscess numbers in my horses when they were shod and now they are barefoot. The numbers simply aren't big enough to be meaningful. I have an impression that the barefooters seem to come back to work very quickly once it has burst, though.
 
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Touch wood, I haven't noticed a significant number of abcesses in any of my barefoot horses and ponies. That's 5 of them so far, varied breeds, some shod before and some never shod. Touching wood again, I haven't had a horse lame from an abcess for probably about 7 years, and even then he was only sore for about 24 hours. Sometimes I realise that one of mine has had a little one come out and drain away without them showing any signs at all. So like Cptrayes I've not noticed anything meaningful.
(And I do agree - Barefoot cruelty - again??). :-(
 
I think ground conditions also come into the equation. I moved two horses from a sandy soil field to a clay loam field. Neither had previously suffered abscesses in the 5 yrs I had owned them yet both developed abscesses several times over the winter.

One barefoot and one shod. The barefoot one was easier to treat as I didn't have to keep having his shoes taken off.
 
Aren't abscesses usually caused by a foreign body?

My TB had an abscess a year ago immediately after his shoes came off. He's never had another, and neither has my other barefoot horse.

The thread's title is unhelpful, I agree.
 
Sorry for the 'Barefoot Cruelty' reference, that thread was making me laugh, cruelty indeed its about as natural as it gets, imagine if when you sent your child to kindergarten they popped some shoes on and said thats it those never come off! Much like the chinese foot binding, my point was the main reason for foot abcess is toxins pooling followed by a puncture and or foreign body, a horse with a good sole who has never been shod is more like the bend the nail he treads on than get a puncture wound, transitioning horses get abcesses because of the change to the hoof, as it becomes alive again, shod horses get abcesses from toxins, punctures and bad farriery.
 
The horrible climatic conditions that we are currently expiriencing (sp) are the main cause of foot abcesses - just got the Vets bill today for my latest case - £78......Having said that, whilst I am not a bare foot advocate per se......unshod youngsters (i.e. those not yet in work) don't tend to get this problem.....it is when they are shod that it becomes evident.
 
snopuma said:
we all know that blood has a job it keeps all the toxins moving, for instance in first aid I have learnt that if you happen across a person who has for instance a tree fallen across their legs then the first thing you ask them is how long they have been stuck, any more than 10 minutes and you must not try to move them yourself, the blood pools and seperates into good and bad(toxins) should you move the tree the rush of toxins to the heart will kill them.
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Ummm, where did you learn this? It sounds like pseudo-scientific stuff :confused:

What do you mean by the term 'toxins'. It is a fairly non-specific term which although fashionable particularly in alternative medicine, actually means very little.

Also Im confused by your statement about blood pooling? If blood pools, it pools, how does it separate into 'good and bad' and what does that even mean?

And as far as I know, most 'heart attacks' are caused by interruption to the blood supply due to coronary artery blockage which causes heart cells to die. 'Toxins' (whatever you mean by that) doesn't come into it.
 
Blood is full of things other than red and white blood cells, the circulation of your blood keeps everything moving, whilst everything is moving everthing is ok, when you cut off the circulation the blood and all its components pool and seperation a little like oil and water occur then when circulation resumes the now concentrated toxic part enters the circulation if it reaches the heart before being rediluted with good blood it will kill you. easy.
 
or... the foot has a foreign body in it and has a standard inflammatory reaction to remove it.. nothing toxic about it at all..

how is an abscess stopping the circulation anyway?
 
snopuma said:
when you cut off the circulation the blood and all its components pool and seperation a little like oil and water occur then when circulation resumes the now concentrated toxic part enters the circulation if it reaches the heart before being rediluted with good blood it will kill you. easy.
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utter tosh (from a postdoctoral biologist). people bandy the word 'toxin' about, well define it for me!

fwiw all the horses I know to have had abscesses in the last few years have been shod. none of mine (and trust me, Scotland has been a trial this year as far as wet is concerned) has had an abscess in the 7, 4 and 3 years I've had them (all unshod). one is booted for work in wet conditions-what of it. even in these crappy conditions I don't worry so much about thrush, WLD, abscesses, lost shoes or (when it comes) snow balling up in their unshod feet.
 
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My girl has had 2 abscesses, the first on her unshod rear that was poulticed, drained & then shod (to keep hole clean etc) all within a week. The second was on a front shod hoof that took 4 weeks to show properly (bit lame then sound bit lame then sound) This one took far longer to drain & come sound so could be re shod. Fingers crossed with the current awful weather conditions we won't have more!!!!
 
I can't quote on my phone, but what snopuma is saying about human toxins via a crush injury where blood flow is stopped and toxins building up is correct and this is what we are taught in the
fire service and is put into practice at RTA's.
 
No nor do I but just thought I would say :)

the only abscess my lot has had is in the shod ones but now most are bare I will see what winter brings
 
I've had horses my whole life and never onces has any of mine ever had a abscess for as long as I can remember

All have been shod.
 
None of mine have ever had an abcess either whether shod or bare (11 years and barefoot for 3 years ) my neighbours however have abcessess a lot, at least one every few months and they are all barefoot; Perhaps its the fact they are on hardcore/hard track all day? I don't know, perhaps its just bad luck?!
 
I thought abscesses where caused by a injury and or a thorn ,grit etc getting into the foot so all this toxin and circulation thing has lost me.
Never had a abbcess on a BF horse except one yearling about ten years ago which happen just after we cut a blackthorn hedge.
Can't remember last time one of my shod horses got one either.
Horses shod or otherwise who repeatedly get abscesses have got an issue probally white line disease or stretched white line due to diet and they are common in laminitics where the laminae are damaged.
 
Well, my little filly, unshod since birth I might add, has had shedloads of blinking abscesses. She's in now, draining one in her back foot! Gah!!!! The amount of nappies I go through......

I think it was a bruise from a couple of weeks ago. It's come out in the white line and the side of the frog.
 
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tallyho! said:
Well, my little filly, unshod since birth I might add, has had shedloads of blinking abscesses. She's in now, draining one in her back foot! Gah!!!! The amount of nappies I go through......
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Someone I worked for bred a foal like this I never got the bottom of why.
 
For those that can't relate a crush injury to abcesses in a hoof its about blood circulation, a crush injury I have explained, my thoughts on its relation to hooves is as follows,

We all know that blood has to go all the way down the leg and hoof of a horse and come all the way back up again and that in part the frog is the natural pump that gets the blood back up the leg, my point is that if the hoof is compromised by inbalance, long heels, poor shoeing, bad diet then it cannot function to its optimum and this will result in areas of the foot having little circulation of blood and resulting in a pooling just like a mini crush injury within the hoof capsule, it could be a few cells which is enough to start an abcess, simples.
 
I'm racking my brain Goldenstar... she came from a lovely herd and I speak to the breeder fairly regularly and none of hers ever get them and she has a 32 strong herd!

There must be something I'm doing... I did take her for an accidental long walk a couple of weeks ago. We got stranded by a herd of cows, all with newborn calves and there was no way I was walking through that lot with the bull bellowing so we had to go the long way around over very stony ground.

I can;t explain the previous ones, but she had a busy year as a yearling going to shows so it could be stress related... she does live on quite a stony hill... I dunno, I just hope she isn't going to produce pus ALL her life!
 
OP ,It really is very simple the hoof is a closed box if a forgien in body gets in it can't get out unless something pushes it out pus is natures way of doing this exactly the way you get rid of thorns you get gardening.
 
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My friends horse constantly had white line disease and got abscesses all the time it was BF after a number of years the vet told her for god sake put shoes on her which she did its now been 12 months and white line disease is long gone and she not had a single absesss do she is delighted.
 
Well yes quite right! I had this splinter which I thought was absorbed in my finger and it did an impressive explosion! :D:D
 
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