Barefoot feed worries haylage vs hay

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jessieblue

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Hi there, as a newbie barefooter going into my first winter I am having some worries. Biggest one is that my yard have decided everything has to eat haylage now as they can sell their hay then. Unfortunately my barefoot horse has gastric ulcers, or did have which were treated but I need to be aware of this in case of them flaring up again when in during winter. I like them to have ad lib haylage for obvious reasons, my yard doesnt, so I have trickle nets to try and compromise on the ampount but with an ulcery horse I cant have him stood with ampty stomach for too long! Also I have noticed since he has been in longer and eating more haylage, he has developed a watery poo dribble coming from his bum. His poos are ok but then theres a little watery stuff that leaves a nice trickle line down his bum! I have had this with my other horse before when the haylage was too rich for him so sure this is the problem. What can I do?? I cant have hay unless I buy my own, not really an option as I have two horses on full livery and pay a lot of money as it is. I was soaking my haylage but then read it was dangerous to soak it as it grows spores, so now not sure what to do for the best. Any ideas?
 
I guess you only have two options. You could voice your concerns to the ym. I would feel exactly the same as you. My girl is barefoot so I prefer her on hay and I worry about ulcers so she's gets ad lib hay at all times. You aren't being unreasonable so maybe your yard owner could make an acception and let you buy in your own hay. It annoys me when they may silly rules like this because not every horse is the same for a start and it's you who will end up footing the vet bills when the horse gets ill. I'd be concerned about the runny poo. I left my last yard because she insisted on haylage and my girl can't cope on it. Second option is to find a new yard which I appreciate isn't easy.
 
Ok thanks thats interesting that Rockley use haylage. Does anyone know if its ok to soak the haylage for say just 30 mins to reduce sugar and acids? I was soaking all through summer, then stopped because I read something that suggested it was a problem if soaked. I am worried about him having a dribbly bum as he didnt have this before coming in at night and eating a lot more haylage.
 
Claribella, thank you, you are right YM should be concerned if a horse cant cope with a certain feed. I buy my own hard feed as he has ff and they dont stock it. I need adlib hay/haylage for ulcer reasons, already spent a fortune on gg etc and last year horse went to RVC with peritonitis which Im not so sure wasnt related to ulcers. I dont need any more vet bills because the yard are being penny pinching, but to be honest, they just dont care. If you dont like it you can leave basically, thats the attitude. I am looking for another yard but its so difficult to find. I really just want an easy life and Im not a difficult client but cant watch my horse get sick again for poor management.
 
Rockley can't get hay easily, that is why they use haylage. Haylage is a problem because of the acidity. If you soak haylage you risk botulism. You could speak to a nutritionalist about additives you could feed to reduce the acid in the hind gut, or get onto one of Dr Kellon's groups and ask there.
 
Ah there's a shame they don't care. It's seems like a lot of yards are like that these days. I'm on DIY livery so I just buy In everything myself. Could you perhaps feed the maximum amount of fast fibre per day and less haylage or would your horse just gulp it all in one go. Through the winter I'd leave a big bucket of fast fibre out for my mare so she could work her way through it but she only trickle fed on it, she's never been a gorger. The only thing would be is you would be forking out for it but at least ponio would be getting less haylage and hopefully less runny bum. I don't know just a thought. Hopefully you will find something more suitable soon.
 
I can see you are stuck between a rock and a very hard place. All mine are barefoot and I wouldn't use haylage. One also has an ulcer problem. I have been able to contol that only by ad lib hay (and various other bits and pieces) There is no way I would let him near haylage.

whatever hay costs it is going to be nothing compared to endless GG, scoping and holidays at a vet hospital.
You are in a really difficult position but IMHO paying to solve the problem is better than the alternative until you can sort out something better.
 
It's not as simple as just hay v haylage but what it is made from.

Rockley make haylage as it is easier to store and make in damp conditions in Exmoor however the old upland meadows they are cutting for this would make fantastic forage whether you turned it into hay or haylage. Alot of the horse do better on Rockley haylage than they do on the hay they get at home

I would start by asking about the forage. If either the hay or haylage is ryegrass it's not ideal and going to be very rich though it is easier to soak hay. You could also so an analysis just of sugars to see where you are and that could give you a stronger starting point for discussion with the ym.
 
Again . many thank all for your great advice! Lucy, I feel the same about the acidity! I know it is too acidic for him and it is worrying me so. I was soaking the haylage all summer as i didnt realise the risk. I only soaked for 10 mins tho to flush out the sugar and acidity, but they were out all night so not eating hardly any haylage at that time. No in most of the day they are eating their bodyweight if given the chance! Ok, paddy55, of course you are quite right, I am being stubborn in not offering to pay extra for hay as I feel a bit peeved they are changing the rules as they go! I will ask,(when they return from holiday) if I can pay extra for hay. I dont know if they will say yes or no though to be honest! I have asked previously if I could pay extra so my horses could have the amount of haylage they need, they just give them a pile of haylage on the floor and that has to last from 2pm until breakfast at 8! My large horses eat this in an hour! I have now purchased trickle nets which I pack really tight and this slows down the consumption. They have a pile on the floor for when they come in as well, but not always, depending on what day of the week it is!! I tend to go down every day and do my own hay! O offered to pay extra to be sure they had enough to last the night but was told there is no restriction and they can have whatever they need. In practice this isnt happening. Very frustrating! I dont think we will be allowed to store our own hay as he is funny about anything like that. But I can only ask. Criso, that makes sense about rockley having the best quality forage for horses needs. All I know is the hay and haylage are analysed and that the haylage is lower sugar than the hay. I believe she said about 3%?? It is nice looking haylage, not too wet and smell lovely. The farmer is very very OCD so I would imagine the haylage is made properly and good quality. i will ask if it is rye grass as I know the grazing is very lush and fertilised. It is very confusing there are so many things to consider, but with all this good info, I have somewhere to start! Thank you again. x
 
Yes, it may well be too good! cptrayes, how long do you soak it for? I did soak it back in the summer when I thought my boy was laminitic. Didnt realise it could be a problem. I onlky soaked for 30 mins tho and it seemed to suit him on, def helped to reduce heat and digital pulses along with a grazing muzzle. Its frustrating, because being in a full livery yard I simply cant get what I want, I have to work within their rules. I am looking for a different yard, but to be honest Im not sure any are going to give me what they say they are. This yard was full of promises about giving your horse whatever it needs and there being winter turnout etc and as time went on it all changed! They arent worried if people leave as have a waiting list (it is a beautiful place) I guess they would rather have more straightforward liveries rather than people trying to keep their horses barefoot and rehabbing them. I dont know its a difficult situation and as it is I have to do my own haylage or my horses only get enough to last them an hour or so!

How does everyone feed their hay/haylage in order that their horses have plenty and dont have empty stomachs for too long and also so they dont eat too much. I understand they should have 2% of their bodyweight in forage, for my horses 750kg and 600kg thats quite a lot of haylage! They have trickle nets, the smallest holed haynets I can find but still manage to eat it quickly from there. They are just big eaters, I would feed them practically a bale of hay each per day when they were on DIY and in all day. What are your thoughts on how much I should feed them?
 
There are loads of us who soak haylage to remove sugar. I do it for 18 hours and use within 24 hours of draining, normally straight away but not always.

Quantity wise I can't help, but soaking for 18 hours increases the volume to about twice as much, and its not so scrumptious, so not only is it less calorific, but they take a lot longer to eat it as well. Bonus :)

To slow them down even more, you can put the hay net loose on the floor. Some people will now yell 'how dangerous!!!' but again there are plenty of us who do it with no problem at all.
 
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Haylage has a higher water content than hay hence the wet fart after pooing, quite normal and nothing to do with richness, infact at least horse should have less chance of getting colic in winter due to lack of fluid intake
 
Big horses like yours need to be fed at least 2% of their body weight esp in winter, get a couple of shires small holed nets put one inside the other so double net and fill it to the top.
 
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