Barefoot - footsore or LGL?

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FinkleyAlex

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I have a 23yo retired gelding, poor doer. Previously had laminitis once a good 8 years ago, no problems since. We took his shoes off in early May - he was living out 24/7 and was a bit pottery walking on concrete but fine in his field. Moved yards in July and to a yard unfortunately covered in gravel and stones, including a downhill walk to his field and a concrete ramp up to the stable block. He has no issue going up the hill and up the ramp, but within two weeks of moving was showing reluctance to go down the concrete ramp and didn't really want to go down the hill to his field either. He was absolutely fine walking on flat surfaces (inc. concrete, unless obviously stony) and once he got to the bottom of the hill was fine walking to his field (he was out 24/7, introduced gradually). He then got to the point of refusing to go down the ramp and wanting to walk the long way round to path down the hill, again always fine on flat surfaces and by the time he got to the bottom of the hill. I booked an appointment with the vet at this point as I wanted it investigated but it wasn't an emergency as it only seemed to happen going downhill. He's since had his feet trimmed and now seems more uncomfortable, isn't too happy on any slight incline - the farrier said his front feet were excellent and his hind feet only had slight bruising in the toe and couldn't see any signs of laminitis/LGL.

The vet is coming out tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone had experienced a horse that was uncomfortable going downhill? I can't tell if he just can't cope barefoot or if he's suddenly developed LGL after years of no issues? For reference he is a poor doer on the slim side due to his age; our grass isn't great but the vet has seen it before and said it shouldn't cause laminitis; he tested borderline for cushings last year; he has no digital pulse/warmth in feet; he never had any of these sort of issues when he had shoes on.
 
Could you put boots and pads on him just for the walk to the field? It 's early days yet for him to have transitioned completely.Other things to exclude are too much grass and thrush.Some boots can be used for turnout.
 
How are his frogs? Walking down hill forces them to land heel first which they can avoid if sore on the flat/uphill so if he has underlying thrush he might struggle - it isn't always very smelly and black and gunky, it depends on the frog structure IME. Also how much did your farrier trim? they should never make them more uncomfortable so I'd advise him to take less off next time.

Fwiw my longterm pretty rock crunching boy who did 3+ hours on quite a stoney ridgeway yesterday still takes his time down the ramp to our school which is hardcore (this is partly because it is the school though ;) ).
 
If it's walking down hill that is the issue are you sure it's the feet? One of mine had issues downhill and it was a pelvis issue, a quick visit from the physio and it was resolved.

Interesting what you say about thrush Ester, my mare was trimmed this week for the first time in too long and was footy yesterday, but I have just started treating her thrush so wonder if that now she's trimmer that's more exposed and causing issues? She was happy enough once we got off the gravel track though. Sadly this means I may have to don my big girl pants and ride in the 'scary' school this afternoon!
 
He generally has really nice neat feet. I certainly haven't noticed any thrush and neither has the farrier - frogs look fine to me. I've used the farrier before and he is very good, but I've just moved back to the area and it's his first trim since being done by our ex farrier up north so he may have tried to do a correction job perhaps? He does have arthritis but is managed with daily bute, I guess if it's not his feet the vet will be able to advise further. I have considered boots but the problem is that my yard is 30 mins away so I often have him taken out for me by staff and I'd imagine they wouldn't be too pleased with having to put boots on and off just for a five minute walk, but I will see what the vet advises. I just feel really bad for him - he doesn't want to go out to his field anymore and I can't keep him in too much as he's arthritic and retired so does nothing else! Sort of feel like his life is too short (given his arthritis and abilities) to be experimenting and putting him through such discomfort when he seemed happier in shoes, poor soul.
 
Do you know if farrier touched bars/sole/frogs? A little light bar trimming makes Frank very unhappy so it can be a simple small thing re. being worse after a trim. I presume he can't stay out?

The only other thing worth considering/mentioning is that if they feel their feet too much they can hold themselves quite tensely elsewhere to compensate and make their muscles sore so he might benefit from some physio/bodyworker.

Good luck with the pants Dizzle ;). My lads feet would never look like they had any thrush going on but he can get quite deep but very tight frog clefts behind that do get a bit sore if you have a good prod in them and I do at times use some red horse spray just to keep on top of it. You wouldnt' think there was an issue until you can see how much better they can be.
 
ester said:
Do you know if farrier touched bars/sole/frogs? A little light bar trimming makes Frank very unhappy so it can be a simple small thing re. being worse after a trim. I presume he can't stay out?

The only other thing worth considering/mentioning is that if they feel their feet too much they can hold themselves quite tensely elsewhere to compensate and make their muscles sore so he might benefit from some physio/bodyworker.

Good luck with the pants Dizzle ;). My lads feet would never look like they had any thrush going on but he can get quite deep but very tight frog clefts behind that do get a bit sore if you have a good prod in them and I do at times use some red horse spray just to keep on top of it. You wouldnt' think there was an issue until you can see how much better they can be.
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I've no idea as I wasn't there unfortunately. I can't keep him out as he lives out with my other horse who comes in to be exercised, and he hates staying out alone (and is always happy to come in for some hay!). At the moment I've been seeing what he wants to do - he lets me know if he doesn't want to go out and so I keep him in, usually in the morning once he's run out of hay he's happier to try and get down the hill. Since he was trimmed I've kept him in for the most part, though he's gone out for a bit today. He never gets an increased digital pulse and it doesn't seem affected by turnout so I'm trying to balance the fear of LGL with keeping him mobile. I will look into the physio, my last one up north didn't want to see him as she said with his arthritis etc it wouldn't be a comfortable experience, especially as he can't do any exercises (he is so envious when he sees my youngster flip his head back 180 degrees to itch a spot!). I might try and treat him for thrush just in case.
 
You can usually see if frogs have been trimmed from the knife marks :). I'm surprised at previous physio, my current lady does a lot of laser as well as hands on work which I have never seen cause discomfort even in the oldest and stiffest :).

re any thrush I would really recommend red horse sole cleanse and hoof stuff.
 
So, your process of elimination is either new environment or new (but previously trusted) farrier trim.

If I tell you that even the most correct trim on a horse who is on the brink of laminitis symptoms can bring them on........I think your horse is reacting to the change in grazing.
 
Vet has been, he does indeed have laminitis in combination with arthritis in his knee getting worse and worse. Weirdly enough he doesn't have an obvious digital pulse and is weight baring, seems quite happy in himself but is staying in for the week on soaked hay though the vet has said he's allowed his hard feed (which is all low sugar/starch but I'm still surprised at that). We tested him for cushings again as even the vet was surprised at the diagnosis - he is very slim and our grass is really crap (but not short enough to be 'stressed').
 
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