Barefoot for the non-believer

I'm a believer but I think some of the pics in the video are misleading. There are photos of laminitic and severe wld affected hooves which are not the result of shoeing alone. The dietry and environmental componants of barefoot are not mentioned as a major factor in the health of these hooves. For me saying that shoes are THE cause of problems isn't the full story. However, I'm sure the fabulous footage will inspire some to find out more which has to be a good thing.
 
I do beleive in barefoot howevero ne of my horses is really bad without shoes, Ive not got a new farrier and as im going to semi retire him im thinking of trying again as she might be able to get his feet in a better shape.

Can all horses become barefoot eventually? or are some just destined to be shod
 
Interesting that all of the replies are from the converted!! where are the antis when we need them!
I'm sure there are cases where a horse might need shoes as a remedial treatment, usually because of injury, or perhaps an older horse who has never had the chance to develop good internal structures, but with the advance of hoof boots in recent years, hopefully there should be no need for any horse to be subjected to this archaic practice.
 
Thanks for posting that. Just seeing that video has made me realise how cruel and barbaric I have been over the last 10 years. I never knew that I was effectively killing horses in their prime :eek:

Just knowing that all those poor horses I've shod over the years are going to end up with such crippling ailments has left me racked with guilt.

It is true everything thats said in that video isnt it? I mean, they wouldnt exagerate at all, or dare I say it.... make things up.....would they?
No, they wouldnt do that. I'll just have to put my tools aside, and hope that if I give up this archaic practice now, I'll be shown some mercy later on :rolleyes:
 
I'm an inbetweener not for or against.
All our youngsters and retired horses go barefoot, and have hard feet. Often the retired ones arrive with perfectly dreadful feet, soft, shelly and within six months of walking over this granite based ground their feet are loads better.
We also have some liveries who ride barefoot, and nothing will convince me that works. Watching their horses literally flinch as they step on a small stone or rough ground is enough to persuade me if you wish to ride on roads, rough ground etc then they need shoes. There is no doubt the horse is lame for a few strides after such an incident, and it can't be good for them.
The video clip lost my interest after the second bit, when she started saying using a shoe makes them walk differently because of the shoe, well strangely enough, I would think the majority of the humans I know wear shoes, and it doesn't seem to make them alter their stride much unless they are stillettos... I switched off.
I think for horses not being ridden there is no better method than barefoot, but the rest? Shoes I'm afraid...
 
henryhorn said:
Watching their horses literally flinch as they step on a small stone or rough ground is enough to persuade me if you wish to ride on roads, rough ground etc then they need shoes.
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The horses I ride go on the roads and on rough ground without shoes, without any issues. They have fantastic feet.
 
So that I can better understand the main thread of the video, I take it that since time immemorial, shoeing has been wrong? Really?

Working along with the idea that the earlier the first set of shoes, then the more the need for them, I could be persuaded, perhaps, that as we grow older, and decide that we need reading glasses, so the decline is given impetus. Then and so, leaving a horse unshod for as long as possible, will promote a better foot, and delay the need for shoes. Maybe, though I don't actually know!!

tommy30, your response raised a smile! In the case of a horse with good feet, would you suggest that shoeing would be better, when delayed until it's actually necessary?

Alec.
 
Read "Feet First" there is a lot of interesting information and the authors started out EXACTLY where everyone starts out. That they had always put shoes on, that they didn't think that their horses could work without shoes, etc. etc. Now they hunt on stoney tracks on Exmoor without shoes and have done for several years.

Regarding humans, in the past week there was an article somewhere that said it is better for humans not to wear thick trainers for running, as the feet/brain adapts to the terrain.
Runners report that if they don't wear the thick soled running shoes they get less aches and pains. If only I could remember where I read it......................
 
tommy30 said:
Thanks for posting that. Just seeing that video has made me realise how cruel and barbaric I have been over the last 10 years. I never knew that I was effectively killing horses in their prime :eek:

Just knowing that all those poor horses I've shod over the years are going to end up with such crippling ailments has left me racked with guilt.

It is true everything thats said in that video isnt it? I mean, they wouldnt exagerate at all, or dare I say it.... make things up.....would they?
No, they wouldnt do that. I'll just have to put my tools aside, and hope that if I give up this archaic practice now, I'll be shown some mercy later on :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

One more conversion - Thank the Lord! :D
 
henryhorn said:
I'm an inbetweener not for or against.
All our youngsters and retired horses go barefoot, and have hard feet. Often the retired ones arrive with perfectly dreadful feet, soft, shelly and within six months of walking over this granite based ground their feet are loads better.
We also have some liveries who ride barefoot, and nothing will convince me that works. Watching their horses literally flinch as they step on a small stone or rough ground is enough to persuade me if you wish to ride on roads, rough ground etc then they need shoes. There is no doubt the horse is lame for a few strides after such an incident, and it can't be good for them.
The video clip lost my interest after the second bit, when she started saying using a shoe makes them walk differently because of the shoe, well strangely enough, I would think the majority of the humans I know wear shoes, and it doesn't seem to make them alter their stride much unless they are stillettos... I switched off.
I think for horses not being ridden there is no better method than barefoot, but the rest? Shoes I'm afraid...
Click to expand...

Echo this, and if you want to talk about breakover? My shod horses land heel first, and have good frogs, always have.

I couldn't bear to have a horse that toe pokes along the ground, and its not restricted to badly shod horses, I've seen barefoot horses at it too - infact some of the horses in that video, are only managing to land 'flat' on flat ground??
 
nice video, ruined imo by the photos of badly shod horses at the end labelled as "shod horse syndrome" or something like that ... I think it's good because it shows horses working on difficult surfaces without shoes and I approve of showing this to the world ... but then can't resist a little propaganda at the end, which is a shame!

My horses are mostly barefoot, but I also have some shod horses. We ride for hours over flinty downland tracks and they live out 24/7. I truly believe that regular, long hacks on difficult terrain are one of the ingredients to a Good barefoot horse.
 
Don't forget this is France. Not sure what the differences are in French farriery and Brirish but I suspect British is much better.
 
I watched most of the video, which got me thinking that maybe I would try Dizz barefoot again (LC is barefoot as he has brilliant feet), but then I got to the end of the vid... :(

It didn't need that propaganda type message :(
 
MissTyc said:
I truly believe that regular, long hacks on difficult terrain are one of the ingredients to a Good barefoot horse.
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I agree and also having solid and stony surfaces where they 'live'. Makes sense that if a horse goes fom field to comfy stable or lives in field 24/7 the hooves will be adapted to soft ground. I know diet is a major factor but I think horses living on a variety of surfaces helps when it comes to us expecting them to ride over more difficult terrain a couple of times a week.
 
"Watching their horses literally flinch as they step on a small stone or rough ground is enough to persuade me if you wish to ride on roads, rough ground etc then they need shoes."

HenryHorn, you might also be interested in this clip: http://www.vimeo.com/10374491

- with no evangelism, I promise ;-)

Orangehorse, here is one of the papers on barefoot running, though may not be the one you mean: http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm
 
Lol you beat me to it Nic Barker. I was off to find one of your vids. lol
henryhorn said:
Watching their horses literally flinch as they step on a small stone or rough ground is enough to persuade me if you wish to ride on roads, rough ground etc then they need shoes.
Click to expand...
I have to ask... why must it be shoes though? Surely this should lead to the question of why the horses are flinching??? Just shoeing them without knowing why is imo justcovering up potential problems. There are boots that don't stay on 24/7 that can help horses cope with surfaces, imo shoes is no longer the only answer and we have ignored asking the questions about why horses are sore or flinch for too long.
 
I wouldnt say im a non believer as i like the idea of my horse being barefoot, however it just wouldnt be practical as when your showing in a ring with a slight slope and some rain and the grass goes slick you need the traction of shoes.

I tried my retired pony barefoot for about 18 months - 2 years and it made him in more pain from his ringbone and vet recommended shoes as they give support and after they where back on you could see the relief he got! We then tried egg bar shoes and he was even better but the clumsy lumb kept pulling them off bless him, so back to normal ones it was lol.

I know barefoot can help a lot of problems and it was worth a try i guess but we have found the best option for my horses anyway lol
 
amandap said:
Lol you beat me to it Nic Barker. I was off to find one of your vids. lol

I have to ask... why must it be shoes though? Surely this should lead to the question of why the horses are flinching??? Just shoeing them without knowing why is imo justcovering up potential problems. There are boots that don't stay on 24/7 that can help horses cope with surfaces, imo shoes is no longer the only answer and we have ignored asking the questions about why horses are sore or flinch for too long.
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I loaned a barefoot horse and she used old mack boots for hacking out and jumping (extra traction for jumping and comfort for hacking) And once you get uysed to the routine of putting them on they are really quite good i think. And they never even rubbed her and that surprised me
 
For me, boots are a great compromise. They allow my horses to be bare almost all of the time and have the benefit of being barefoot, and on the two that use boots, they can wear them for exercise when I think they need them (which ain't very often)

So they get the best of both worlds.

However it just can't be said often enough - just being without shoes is not enough - it is the whole feeding, environment and adequate exercise regime that makes it work.
 
playing devils advocate here

But are boots really that great a compromise,
Are you really sure that riding regularly in boots is not as bad or not worse than riding with shoes on, that is if either is harmful ( not convinced either is )

Prehaps we should all go one step furthur and become barefoot ourselves, now we do know shoes can be damaging for our own feet and our ancestors originally started off barefoot. :)
 
Well boots would only be on when needed not 24/7. They do not 'fix' the foot, they are rubber so the hoof can expand and contract. Boots do not pierce/invade the hoof as nails do. The sole is protected in boots which it is not in shoes on stony ground.The whole foot is raised rather than just the edge (hoof wall) as it is in a shoe which raises the foot off the ground with less support/pressure to sole and frog.

What other hooved animal do we need to shoe? Working oxen aren't shod are they or donkeys? Wonder why?
 
amandap said:
Well boots would only be on when needed not 24/7. They do not 'fix' the foot, they are rubber so the hoof can expand and contract. Boots do not pierce/invade the hoof as nails do. The sole is protected in boots which it is not in shoes on stony ground.The whole foot is raised rather than just the edge (hoof wall) as it is in a shoe which raises the foot off the ground with less support/pressure to sole and frog.

What other hooved animal do we need to shoe? Working oxen aren't shod are they or donkeys? Wonder why?
Click to expand...

Why do you presume shod feet dont expand and contract? Have you ever examined the foot surface of a worn shoe? You will notice wear marks caused by expansion and contraction, and widened nail holes caused by........you guessed it..... expansion and contraction. If you dont believe me, I'd be only too happy to take some pictures and post them up here. If the shoe eliminated the hoof mechanism, how do you explain the vastly overwhelming number of shod horses living healthy lives? Oh, thats right, they dont do they. They all end up like those horses on the video posted earlier:rolleyes:
 
Doh! Yes I am aware of marks made on shoes by hoof expansion and contraction I should have said expansion and contraction is limited but I must admit to not knowing by how much exactly. The marks on the shoes show the expansion and contraction is limited, if the shoe didn't limit this surely there would be no marks. The flexion of the hoof when it strikes an uneven surface is also limited to some extent by shoes.
 
If an object continually moves against another object, wear will occur regardless of whether or not the amount of motion is being limited. Shoes are fitted wider than the hoof from the WPOTF back to accomodate the expansion and contraction.
 
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