Barefoot gurus any ideas?

[Overgrown Pony]

Hey guys

I bought my horse in Feb 2012. He was shod all round. After speaking to the farrier we decided it would be ok to take his back shoes off as he has good feet. He’s always been a bit of a verge hugger when it comes to stony ground. Because I got them taken off almost as soon as I bought him I didn’t get the chance to see how he was with back shoes on.

In the last few months I’ve noticed he’s not even that happy to walk on the tarmac. I spoke to my farrier about it and he said that the constant wet ground wears/washes away the protective layer on the sole and can make them footy. Anyone heard of this? I’ll speak to him again but anyone any ideas on something I can put on/feed to help? I’m more than happy to get back shoes on him if that’s what he needs.

He’s fed the following once a day (it’s all I can get to the yard):

Baileys No.4 Cond Cubes (stubbs scoop)(Micronised Wheat, Nutritionally Improved Straw, Wheatfeed, Distillers’ Grains, Micronised Soya Beans, Molasses, Soya Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins and Minerals, Calcined Magnesite, Sodium Chloride)
FibreBeet (2 large cups dry volume)(Speedi-beet, alphalpha, oat fibre, Biotin, sodium, calcium) - can’t find the full ingredients on the net but I’m sure the tag on the bag says molasses
Rowan & Barbary Sumo (3 large handfuls)(Vegetable Oils, Wheatfeed, Palm Kernel, Cereal Fibres, Vitamins, Minerals, Permitted Antioxidants)
Corn Oil (around 1/3 cup)

Is there anything in there that could be contributing to sensitive feet?

Thanks for your time

 

[TwoStroke]

Alfalfa can cause footiness, particularly if molassed. The bailey's No 4 almost certainly will - far too starchy.

I'd advise switching to something like unmolassed beet pulp, with a decent mineral supplement like pro hoof.

 

[CBFan]

Yes, I agree with twostroke. Both the Baileys and the Fibrebeet could be your problem.

I would feed either fast fibre or speedibeet and then add some micronised linseed and Pro hoof (from progressive earth on ebay) or forage plus's balancer.

If you really need help with weight then you might find dodson and horrel ERS Pellets will help with this.

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm happy to switch him to whatever he needs.

The issues I have when it comes to feeding him is that he's 17.2hh so a big lad and doesn't hold weight well in winter (although blooms in summer on grass alone). That plus I can only feed him once a day.

Will I be able to get enough beet into him to sustain him in one meal a day? How much can I feed safely? Is it still the 2kg dry weight per meal rule when it comes to beet pulp?

P.S he's out 24/7, well rugged (always warm) and has adlib good quality hay.

 

[CBFan]

My boy is 17.2 and still growing.

He is only on 300g Fast Fibre, 150g Micronised linseed and about 750g ERS Pellets a day...

Good grazing during the day and 8kg haylage overnight...

I would keep feeds as small as possible - up the calorific value by increasing the linseed if needed (I feed a mug full a day, you could feed more) and continue with the add lib hay...

I wouldn't be too concerned about him dropping weight over the winter - in fact I actively encourage it - epsecially if they are prone to gaining it in the summer.

Sounds like he could do with some mineral support as well though so it is definitely worth looking into this...

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Thanks for your replies.

CBFan - would you describe your lad as a poor doer? What are your reasons for the ERS pellets? I'm aware that FastFibre isn't very calorific so am a bit wary about that part. Mine doesn't get fat in summer. He just looks good, as apose to winter where he's looking pretty awful

 

[CBFan]

No, Mine is a good doer. Hense the restricted haylage...

I feed the ers pellets for energy and because they are safe for barefooters - no mollasses etc but they can be fed at increased quantities for the callories - I know of plenty of people who do.

Yes, I know what you mean about the fast fibre. I would try speedi beet instead

 

[claribella]

Overgrown pony, the fast fibre on its own isnt much of a weight gaining feed but its the linseed that is the key ingrediant for poor doers. I have had my girl on this all winter and she has never come out of winter looking so good. I am however about to take her off fast fibre but thats not because it hasnt worked. Im going to combine the linseed with coprameal as this combined will be totally natural without any nasties but low insugar,high in fibre and contain most of what she will need. I also feed ad lib seaweed. Sometimes she eats loads and other times she doesnt. She knows what she needs. If I were you and could only feed once a day then Id feed two to three cups of linseed in a big bowl of fast fibre. Then Id put out as much hay as he can eat so if hes none left in the morn then put out more. Having ad lib hay day and night is one of the keys during the winter in my limited experience

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Thanks guys

Looks like I should be vearing towards cutting out the conditioning cubes and Fibrebeet (contains Alphalpha) and replacing it with Speedibeet, linseed and ERS pellets.

I'll get onto this straight away.

 

[JHC]

I agree with everyone else's comments.

I have a poor doer and feed 500/550g of linseed after she dropped a considerable amount of weight before Xmas. She piled on weight quickly and safely.

Another feed I like for poor doers is soaked grass nuts. I soak them with speedibeet & linseed over night.

Should add she's a TB 16.1hh and completely barefoot (wears hoof boots for road work).

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Thanks guys. That's my ERS pellets ordered and ready to pick up on Thursday. Will pick up a bag of Speedibeet and linseed at the same time.

Will just have to give away the Baileys No.4 and Fibrebeet I have sitting. Someone is going to score

I'm about to place another post about his feet affecting his stringhalt incase any of you have any experience with this...

 

[CBFan]

Thanks guys. That's my ERS pellets ordered and ready to pick up on Thursday. Will pick up a bag of Speedibeet and linseed at the same time.

Will just have to give away the Baileys No.4 and Fibrebeet I have sitting. Someone is going to score

I'm about to place another post about his feet affecting his stringhalt incase any of you have any experience with this...

Thats great! I would just feed what you have left of the other stuff you'll need to introduce the new stuff gradually anyway so just run down the old feed as you increase the new

Make sure you get micronised linseed which has already been cooked otherwise you will have to be boiling up linseed

 

[Overgrown Pony]

It's the Charnwood micronised linseed so all good to go

Ok i'll finish what I have and introduce the new feed gradually. I have 1.5 bags of Baileys No.4 so I think i'll give the full one away rather than keep pummelling it into him.

Cheers guys

 

[amandaco2]

Mines on ers and releve plus added oil,linseed meal and yeasacc plus pro balance.....

 

[CBFan]

It's the Charnwood micronised linseed so all good to go

Ok i'll finish what I have and introduce the new feed gradually. I have 1.5 bags of Baileys No.4 so I think i'll give the full one away rather than keep pummelling it into him.

Cheers guys

That sounds like a good plan

 

[CBFan]

Mines on ers and releve plus added oil,linseed meal and yeasacc plus pro balance.....

Out of interest, what is it you feed the releve for? weight or energy? or both?

 

[cptrayes]

I have a 17 hander who would not be able to maintain his weight in winter on one feed a day, even with ad lib haylage. They get much more food value out of the same volume of feed fed in smaller meals.

I know it will be difficult for you, but it isn't good for him to be fed one huge meal, and I really think that you need to be looking at finding someone to give him a second feed for you.

I know that will not be what you want to hear, and I'm sorry about that, but it is well known that a large feed gets pushed out of the stomach, which in a horse is relatively small, before the stomach juices have had time to properly start the digestive process. Apart from being a colic risk, it's a waste of food.


ps the cheapest way to add calories without adding bulk is to feed supermarket oil. My big fellow gets 500 ml a day. Introduce it gradually, it can cause the squits if you give too much before they have developed the gut bacteria that they need to digest it.

 

[cptrayes]

There are some horses who simply do not do well unless their feet are dry fora good period of each day. If the feed changes make no difference, then he could be one of these, and you will need to boot or shoe.

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Thanks again guys!

I agree that one meal a day is less than ideal... I have a child and so only work 3 days a week so on my 4 days off I could zoom along to the yard and get an extra feed into my horse. Better getting 2 feeds 4 days out of 7 than not!

So shall I still go by the 2kg (dry weight) per meal to get as much into him as possible? Some say you can go to 2.5kg for a big horse. What do you think?

I'm thinking 500ml oil, 600g Linseed, 500gm Speedibeet and 1kg ERS. Twice a day.

I think i'll go and give Dodson and Horrell a quick buzz.

My farrier is due out next Thursday. I called him last night to discuss things and he said that standing in wet mud all day can comprimise the hoof so he may well be footy because of that. He will probably put back shoes on him at least until the summer then we can see how he goes.

 

[amandaco2]

the releve adds energy and weight. and its very palatable so tempts the fussy one to eat his feed well!

 

[CBFan]

the releve adds energy and weight. and its very palatable so tempts the fussy one to eat his feed well!

Ah thank you. very interesting... although i notice that it contains mollasses AND alfalfa so it may be a no go for my lad

 

[CBFan]

Thanks again guys!

I agree that one meal a day is less than ideal... I have a child and so only work 3 days a week so on my 4 days off I could zoom along to the yard and get an extra feed into my horse. Better getting 2 feeds 4 days out of 7 than not!

So shall I still go by the 2kg (dry weight) per meal to get as much into him as possible? Some say you can go to 2.5kg for a big horse. What do you think?

I'm thinking 500ml oil, 600g Linseed, 500gm Speedibeet and 1kg ERS. Twice a day.

I think i'll go and give Dodson and Horrell a quick buzz.

My farrier is due out next Thursday. I called him last night to discuss things and he said that standing in wet mud all day can comprimise the hoof so he may well be footy because of that. He will probably put back shoes on him at least until the summer then we can see how he goes.

I personally would start him on a mug full of micronised linseed (250g), 500g Speedi beet and 2 round stubbs scoops (2kg) ERS a day and see how you go... if you feel he needs more calories after say, a month on this then increase the linseed... slowly to the quantities youve described above...

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Spoke to the Dodson & Horrell feed advise lady and she suggests that large amounts of fibre i.e chaff or beet, mixed with conditioning feeds may well push through to the hind gut too quickly resulting in an issue with the starch content.

She said either to feed fibre OR conditioning cubes and keep the volume of the entire meal, once soaked, to rugby ball size.

When you call Topspec they tell you that you go by the "dry" weight of the feed, so stay below 2kg and you'll be fine.

That's conflicting advise.

D&H said to go for 2 feeds a day each containing 1.5kg of ERS pellets mixed with a little beet or the Sumo just to bulk it out a small amount for pallatability.

 

[CBFan]

Spoke to the Dodson & Horrell feed advise lady and she suggests that large amounts of fibre i.e chaff or beet, mixed with conditioning feeds may well push through to the hind gut too quickly resulting in an issue with the starch content.

She said either to feed fibre OR conditioning cubes and keep the volume of the entire meal, once soaked, to rugby ball size.

When you call Topspec they tell you that you go by the "dry" weight of the feed, so stay below 2kg and you'll be fine.

That's conflicting advise.

D&H said to go for 2 feeds a day each containing 1.5kg of ERS pellets mixed with a little beet or the Sumo just to bulk it out a small amount for pallatability.

Well ERS pellets are basically a fibre feed but a small amount of beet helps make them a bit more palatable... I have always gone with the 'rugby ball' sized portions and try to keep things to around about a stubbs scoop sized feed at a time...