Barefoot gurus!Need your help!

Christmas Magic

Christmas Magic

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Hi everyone. Question is, how to maintain and make better barefoot hooves?Huge Horse(aka Teddy) lives out 24/7,and grass is lush at the moment. His feet a hard,but as my farrier says bare,flat,not enough wall,so he basically walking on the sole. Question is how to improve quality of his hooves? If i put him i smaller paddock with less grass,he will churn it up in a day. Cant muzzle him to regulate grass intake because of his teeth,he got halve missing and parrot mouth, cant stable him,cant make paddock paradise as we at the livery yard, cant put hoof boots on because of the size of his feet(22cm)and his legs(his legs are bad,they all lumpy as a result of neglected mites),so made to order boots no good,because they fasten around the pastern. So question is what to do if i want to improve his feet? Now he on the grass mainly,but have one tiny feed for supplements. I feel like im stuck and dont know what else to think about,and he is getting footy more and more:( And i ant hepl it. Please,help with advice!
Thanks!
 
Supahoof,black salt,micronised linseed on and off(month on,month off) dengie hi-fi original with apple,sprinkle of d&h pasture mix (otherwise wont eat)sugarbeet in winter/autumn. Feed only tiny,jst to hide supplements really, Teddy slightly on porky side because grazing is so good.
 
Is he uncomfortable on his feet?

Nothing wrong with walking on soles - horses are designed to spread the load across wall, bars, frog and on slightly softer ground, sole. Horses also tend to grow flatter feet if worked more on hard surfaces (e.g. tarmac - mine is mainly ridden on tarmac and has flatter feet, whereas a horse who lives and works on softer ground will often have more concave feet).

The main thing is that the horse is happy and comfortable, not what their feet look like :)

ETa - saw you say he is getting more footy... on what surfaces?
 
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Christmas Magic said:
Supahoof,black salt,micronised linseed on and off(month on,month off) dengie hi-fi original with apple,sprinkle of d&h pasture mix (otherwise wont eat)sugarbeet in winter/autumn. Feed only tiny,jst to hide supplements really, Teddy slightly on porky side because grazing is so good.
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I think there's quite a bit of sugar in what you are feeding, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable will be able to advise better than lil ole me!

I've never heard of supahoof, but I'm pretty sure that hi-fi original is coated with molasses and the Pasture Mix won't help. When you say sugarbeet, do you mean the non-mollassed speedibeet? You really need to feed the unmollassed stuff.

Would your horse eat something like Fast Fibre? It's a very high fibre feed, low sugar, low starch and for good-doers. also your good grazing will be high in sugar too, so ideally you would take your horse off it during the day, although I know it's not always possible.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted. There will be far better replies than mine coming your way though!
 
Christmas Magic said:
Hi everyone. Question is, how to maintain and make better barefoot hooves?Huge Horse(aka Teddy) lives out 24/7,and grass is lush at the moment. His feet a hard,but as my farrier says bare,flat,not enough wall,so he basically walking on the sole. Question is how to improve quality of his hooves? If i put him i smaller paddock with less grass,he will churn it up in a day. Cant muzzle him to regulate grass intake because of his teeth,he got halve missing and parrot mouth, cant stable him,cant make paddock paradise as we at the livery yard, cant put hoof boots on because of the size of his feet(22cm)and his legs(his legs are bad,they all lumpy as a result of neglected mites),so made to order boots no good,because they fasten around the pastern. So question is what to do if i want to improve his feet? Now he on the grass mainly,but have one tiny feed for supplements. I feel like im stuck and dont know what else to think about,and he is getting footy more and more:( And i ant hepl it. Please,help with advice!
Thanks!
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Five can't do's in your post before we can even begin to help? I'm a fully paid up barefoot Taliban member and I think you should shoe him if he is uncomfortable. You are not in a position to make barefoot work for a difficult horse.
 
cptrayes said:
Five can't do's in your post before we can even begin to help? I'm a fully paid up barefoot Taliban member and I think you should shoe him if he is uncomfortable. You are not in a position to make barefoot work for a difficult horse.
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Agree with this.
 
Christmas Magic said:
- lives out 24/7,and grass is lush at the moment.
- If i put him i smaller paddock with less grass,he will churn it up in a day.
- Cant muzzle him to regulate grass intake because of his teeth,he got halve missing and parrot mouth,
- cant stable him,
- cant make paddock paradise as we at the livery yard,
- is getting footie more and more.
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Your horse is showing early signs of laminitis. What are you going to do if he goes down with it properly? You are going to HAVE to sort out some of these "can't do's" then, so perhaps it would be better to do them NOW and avoid the vet bills and the shoeing bills? Oh, and possible crippling of your horse??

I'm sorry to sound so hard but your horse sounds like a time-bomb waiting to explode.
 
I know first step is to reduce sugar intake one or the other way-smaller paddock,grazing muzzle,stabling,that's why i said straight away i cant do things like that,because people will suggest these things straight away! I really dont think shooing is an option,for his size we will have to take mortgage:(and he was barefoot all his life . He was fine all autumn/winter/spring,when grass wasn't lush and we been at another place. We've done long hacks walk/trot/canter on various terrain no problem! Moved yards in spring,with loads of grass here,he was ok. Now,after all this wet weather he is getting footy,fine on tarmac,dont like deep sand. One day he may be short in trot,other day absolutely fine! I dont really care how his feet like as far as they working,just my farrier always telling me more hoof wall will be very good. Feed wise- i didn't realize its a lot of sugar in it,i thought hi fi is good one. Its unmollassed speedy beet,and pasture mix its just a sprinkle,because he wont eat without, as he doesn't like taste of supahoof(Global Herbs Supahoof).
Well,how many of you who at the livery can make paddock paradise? Dont think so!
I cant stable him because both our horses live out together and if stable one have to stable another which we cant afford money-wise and time-wise!
Our paddock is 3 acres divided by two,so its only 1,5 for two horses! when its gets too wet/no grass/churned up,we swapping paddocks! Grass is around 10cm i think at the moment. He does'n have any pulse or heat,i am checking his feet every day!
 
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If he has been BF all his life I would be really really worried if he was mine I would be beside myself with anxiety that is a lami attack brewing I would be stabling him giving only soaked hay and calling the vet for advice.
 
Christmas Magic said:
I know first step is to reduce sugar intake one or the other way-smaller paddock,grazing muzzle,stabling,that's why i said straight away i cant do things like that,because people will suggest these things straight away! I really dont think shooing is an option,for his size we will have to take mortgage:(and he was barefoot all his life . He was fine all autumn/winter/spring,when grass wasn't lush and we been at another place. We've done long hacks walk/trot/canter on various terrain no problem! Moved yards in spring,with loads of grass here,he was ok. Now,after all this wet weather he is getting footy,fine on tarmac,dont like deep sand. One day he may be short in trot,other day absolutely fine! I dont really care how his feet like as far as they working,just my farrier always telling me more hoof wall will be very good. Feed wise- i didn't realize its a lot of sugar in it,i thought hi fi is good one. Its unmollassed speedy beet,and pasture mix its just a sprinkle,because he wont eat without, as he doesn't like taste of supahoof(Global Herbs Supahoof).
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You need to understand that this is the first sign of laminitis. He is sound on the road because at the moment he only has sole inflammation hurting him. Laminitis varies from day to day with the sugar contect in the grass. We've had an exceptionally cold spring and suddenly we have warmth. The fact that he has not had a problem in the spring is not relevant, he has a problem NOW and you need to do something about it. Unfortunately, all the things you need to do about it are in your list of things you can't do, and now you have added to that list that you cannot afford to shoe him. If you really can't do anything to restrict him eating, then I think you need to move yards to somewhere where you can restrict his grazing. How will you feel if you go tomorrow and find him in a laminitic stance and in a month's time you have xrays showing pedal bone rotation? Sick, or what?


It is, in my opinion, not acceptable, and probably illegal, to leave a horse sore without shoes on.

There is no magic bullet here that any barefoot guru can give you. Your horse needs his grazing restricted. Now.
 
^^^^^^^^^

Thank the Lord, the sound of reason !!!

OP, I'm sorry, it may be inconvenient for you, but you have to do something NOW for your horse. Even if you have to move yards !! But firstly, get a vet out xx
 
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You mention a move,so it could be that the grass at the new place has a different mineral profile and this could be contributing to his problems. It would be worth getting the grazing tested for minerals as this can make a huge difference to hoof quality. There are several companies who offer this service.Here is one http://shop.forageplus.com/ Or you could try one of specialist mineral balancers on the market.
Bear in mind that it can take several months to see the improvement.

Feed wise it might be worth trying something like this http://www.thepurefeedcompany.com/products/pure-easy and losing the pasture mix.

I would also check very carefully for thrush. It can lurk unseen between the heel bulbs and this warm wet weather has been perfect for it!

You also mention that he struggles on sand......are you sure it is his feet causing problems? I would have thought deep sand would be no problem for a barefoot horse,but would trouble one with issues higher up.

As others have said,a vet would be your best investment at this stage.
 
Footy,footy...Maybe footy is not the correct word im using? He is not like he is carefully picking his way,he will walk and trot on anything,even on gravel(not like im trotting him on gravel),he just doesn't like trotting in deepish sand. He is not lame,but may take a shorter step in trot like he stood on the stone on something. He perfectly fine galloping around the field and crushing it! I can swap paddocks tomorrow for one with lesser grass and keep him there and see how he feels in couple of weeks. Does anyone muzzled a horse with parrot mouth before?Where they eating comfortably,or it was impossible because of the shape of their mouth?
And apart from that,how can i improve condition of hes feet?
 
Thanks abitodd. Just replace pasture mix with it? But does really a handful of it will make such a big difference? I am only asking because im interested,how such a tiny amount can harm.
Will look at tasting grazing definitely.
And not everyone can suddenly afford to pay 240 for shoeing instead of 40 for trim! We all limited in many ways and not all of as are made of money!
 
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£240 for shoeing? I think you should maybe get a farrier to quote recommended by your vet after they have seen your horse.
 
Christmas Magic said:
Thanks abitodd. Just replace pasture mix with it? But does really a handful of it will make such a big difference? I am only asking because im interested,how such a tiny amount can harm.
Will look at tasting grazing definitely.
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Lami can be a symptom of a much bigger metabolic picture. It is often likened to diabetes in humans. Grass is probably equivalent to digestive biscuits(plenty of fibre and loads of sugar) and pasture mix is more like a candy bar......neither of the above would be safe for a diabetic and neither would be considered a healthy diet.

When it comes to using a grazing muzzle for a horse with a parrot mouth,why not try one and watch him. I bet he will manage fine. Also bear in mind that dental problems can lead to metabolic problems because the digestive process starts with grinding the grass to a pulp. If he is not able to chew effectively the grass may not be 'ready' when it reaches the hindgut. This could cause problems in the feet. A vet will be able to tell you more.
 
Well I would get some quotes from other farriers. If he needs shoes he needs shoes and if he's not doing much work he won't need a new set each shoeing.
You can't leave him sore . I would really consult a vet at this point.
 
Check out the Long Riders Guild. There's a paste in a tube that you squeeze on the hooves to make a shoe replacement if horse loses a shoe. Maybe the cost is cheaper than shoes and the farrier can put it on for you (to make sure the hooves are balanced)?

Hi Fi Light is the one that's low sugar. It comes in a blue bag. Or horses usually like the Fast Fibre someone already recommended, it soaks to a mash and is cheap to buy. It's made by Allen & Page. Pure Feeds Easy is low sugar but may be too expensive for you. It's chaff and cubes together so you only would need a handful of that on its own. If the horse is getting laminitis, even a little bit of pasture mix is a bad idea. High fibre cubes would be better, less sugar and starch in those.

I understand about having limited money. But you must understand that if you can't really afford to keep a horse when something goes wrong, then if he gets laminitis you will have to put to sleep (because you won't be able to afford treatment). If you don't want this to happen, you need to try to find the money for preventative measures now.

If the deep sand is also dry and fluffy then he maybe doesn't want to trot in it because its a lot of effort and a strain on the tendons. Can you run on it? Is it like trying to run on deep fluffy sand at the car park edge (not the sea edge, hope that makes sense) of the beach? If it is, that's not really a suitable surface for trotting and cantering on. I used to be at a yard with a worn out arena like this, so I feel your pain. If you get the horse fit gradually it will learn to cope with the bad surface and remain balanced.
 
Christmas Magic said:
Thanks abitodd. Just replace pasture mix with it? But does really a handful of it will make such a big difference? I am only asking because im interested,how such a tiny amount can harm.
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It won't.

You are grasping at straws. Your horse is on lush 24/7 summer grazing. What is in a handful of hard food isn't going to make an ounce of difference.

Christmas Magic said:
Will look at testing grazing definitely.
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Total waste of money until you get his grass intake under control
 
I will tell you my experience with my pony this year. I bought her in August and she was fine. A week after I had her she came down with laminitis, which was odd as she was in an almost bare, wet, churned up field. I was on grass livery so didnt have a stable. Vet came and said get her off the grass and stabled. Luckily a nice lady on the yard let me use her stable for a couple of weeks. I fenced her a small completely bare paddock where no grass grew at all. I gave her hay and she was fine.

Unfortunately the yard owner then said she had to go out on the summer paddocks to rest where she was so I had to move. Went to a yard down the road where I had an acre just for my pony. The grass was quite long so I stripped grazed it and she has been a different pony! Completely sound, pain and stiffness free, a little madam to be honest! She is now on the entire field which is quite bare but I agree that different grass has different nutrition. I feed a scoop of fast fibre with a scoop of naff multi vitamins and she is doing amazing.

I know you say you struggle with restricting grazing, but wouldnt it be better to fence your horse into a smaller paddock and let him churn it up rather than lamininitis? Is is an awful disease and although my pony only had a mild case, I cried very day seeing her in pain and I felt so guilty even though there was nothing I could do to prevent it. It wasnt like she was on a massive lush field. You would feel truely awful if yours went down with lami. My vet said the pain of lami is like have a nail put don your toenail! It happens so quickly, but recovery is slow and traumatic for horse and human.

Speak to your yard owner and see if they can help you come up with a plan to restrict the grazing. They might be really helpful. Good luck and if you have any questions PM me. I have done a lot of research on laminitis. xx
 
SpottyFalula said:
I will tell you my experience with my pony this year. I bought her in August and she was fine. A week after I had her she came down with laminitis, which was odd as she was in an almost bare, wet, churned up field. I was on grass livery so didnt have a stable. Vet came and said get her off the grass and stabled. Luckily a nice lady on the yard let me use her stable for a couple of weeks. I fenced her a small completely bare paddock where no grass grew at all. I gave her hay and she was fine.

Unfortunately the yard owner then said she had to go out on the summer paddocks to rest where she was so I had to move. Went to a yard down the road where I had an acre just for my pony. The grass was quite long so I stripped grazed it and she has been a different pony! Completely sound, pain and stiffness free, a little madam to be honest! She is now on the entire field which is quite bare but I agree that different grass has different nutrition. I feed a scoop of fast fibre with a scoop of naff multi vitamins and she is doing amazing.

I know you say you struggle with restricting grazing, but wouldnt it be better to fence your horse into a smaller paddock and let him churn it up rather than lamininitis? Is is an awful disease and although my pony only had a mild case, I cried very day seeing her in pain and I felt so guilty even though there was nothing I could do to prevent it. It wasnt like she was on a massive lush field. You would feel truely awful if yours went down with lami. My vet said the pain of lami is like have a nail put don your toenail! It happens so quickly, but recovery is slow and traumatic for horse and human.

Speak to your yard owner and see if they can help you come up with a plan to restrict the grazing. They might be really helpful. Good luck and if you have any questions PM me. I have done a lot of research on laminitis. xx
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Traumatic is the right word for going though lamintis and that's just for the owner I suspect it's beyond traumatic for the horse I have never forgotten my Shetland getting it when I was I think eleven .
This is good post and I am so glad you have got your pony right and have found a place to keep her that suits .
OP needs to sort her horses access to the grazing somehow the rule must be if it might be lami treat as lami.
 
I can't understand yard owners who don't/won't accomodate the needs of individual horses. All the liveries I've had have either had as much grass as they like or a scap of land. I always encourage them to make a track system as I do with my two. Mine is trashed, I don't care, less access to lush grass as far as I'm concerned.

OP you really need to either move your horse/restrict grass intake or face the large vet bills!
 
OK so you cant do tracks, what about strip grazing? You need to limit the amount of grass somehow. Electric fencing is cheap enough.
 
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