Barefoot help again, please – severe DSIL damage

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Delta99

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After 4 months of barefoot my navi horse is still as lame as he was when first diagnosed 6 months ago. (This is the vet’s grades of lameness – while I agree with that assessment I have to mention that he does not look as short and choppy anymore and some of his ‘floatiness’ has returned so something has improved)

Have finally had the mri to see what’s going on and it showed that there is severe impar ligament damage in both feet plus the expected changes to the navicular bones. No DDFT damage. (could that have healed in the last 6 months?)

Leahurst's suggested treatment is 8 weeks box rest, more steroid injections and egg bar shoes but the vet said it’s very unlikely that the horse will be able to return to competition work, at best it might be able to do low level RC with pain medication.

Not doing egg bars obviously and the last lot of steroids gave him a bout of laminitis so that’s not really an option.
Spoke to the vet who diagnosed him and he agrees with me.

Have been using a farrier to trim (as my other horse is still shod) but finally had a trimmer out the other day who did a super job, quite different from the farrier but was also very guarded about the horse’s chances of coming sound. Said it would take at least 12 months and probably longer for more than hacking.

As the ligament damage is so severe, I am debating about the box rest. I understand the importance of navi rehabs being out but most of them seem to have severe tendon damage with a bit of IL damage so the movement is obviously good for the tendon.
However, as far as I know, ligament injuries should be rested, with controlled exercise? Unfortunately my boy does have his mad 5 minutes in the field occasionally…

Sorry guys, I know I keep asking for help but I feel that I'm running out of options here. Also, I don’t know what happened when they did the mri but ever since the horse has come back, he doesn’t want to walk in hand at all (ok by himself in the field) and has been looking so miserable that for the first time since he was diagnosed I have actually considered whether it wouldn’t be kinder to put him down.

Have put him on ‘No Bute’ for the moment and he is slightly brighter but still not his usual self.
Feeling very depressed at the moment and would really appreciate any suggestions or advice anyone might have re box rest or generally dealing with ligament damage.
Thanks a lot for your help.
 
I think your only other option at the moment is to have a chat with Nic Barker and see if she thinks she can help.
 
Is your horse landing heel first or toe first? You may need to video him and play it back in slomo to make sure.

If he were mine I would restrict his turnout so that he cannot do a hooley, to a box if necessary, but in that case I would be walking him in hand on a hard road (assuming that you can coax him to do that) several times a day. I went through a period of this regime with my rehab, who lamed himself twice by having a mad moment, once when I turned him out (mistake!) and once when he escaped me on the lunge.

Can you "proper bute" him very short term until he gets his mojo back?
 
Thanks a lot for your replies.

No, sadly the horse is not landing heel first yet but I'm at a loss what else I can do to encourage this.
Yes, I can bute him but that will just mask the problem.

He won't be restricted in the field this time of year with rugs on - he just walks through any electric fence so unless I post and rail a number of postage sized paddocks, not much hope there.

He'll stay in his stable quite happily - the trimmer suggested putting pea gravel in there, would it be too much to have him stand on that 24/7?
Am also prepared to put pea gravel in the field but again I can't really see how I can keep him on it... :D

We decided against Rockley initially as I wanted to keep the horse at home (and for a number of other reasons) but it's still an option even though I'm not convinced that even Nic can get this horse completely sound again from what everyone is saying. :(
 
Personally I would try some bute to see if he will go heel first landing on bute, because it appears from Rockley horses that the damage comes right as the toe first landing disappears and it might, just, help.

Are you certain that he has no thrush or central sulcus infection making it sore for him to walk heel first?

Is his frog weight bearing when stood on a concrete surface - you should not be able to slide your credit card under?

Have you tried him in boots and pads?

I would keep him stabled before I would have him shot for failing to improve while he is not stabled. I don't see that you have any option. For a test of a couple of months I don't think the bedding will matter as long as it is not rubber mat alone.
 
Santa Paws said:
Personally I would try some bute to see if he will go heel first landing on bute, because it appears from Rockley horses that the damage comes right as the toe first landing disappears and it might, just, help.

Are you certain that he has no thrush or central sulcus infection making it sore for him to walk heel first?

Is his frog weight bearing when stood on a concrete surface - you should not be able to slide your credit card under?

Have you tried him in boots and pads?

I would keep him stabled before I would have him shot for failing to improve while he is not stabled. I don't see that you have any option. For a test of a couple of months I don't think the bedding will matter as long as it is not rubber mat alone.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's my feeling but I don't want to do more damage.
I will try him on bute to see if the landing improves. Would one a day be enough, or would you give 2?

Definitely no trush etc, the trimmer actually commented on this and mentioned how healthy the frogs are.

Will try the credit card thing tomorrow.

Have ordered some boots but am a bit torn about this - I understand that the boots and pads will make the horse more comfortable and encourage a heel first landing... but obviously if the horse is on box rest and walking in boots, the feet will not 'self trim'?
 
All good advice above, I just wanted to add that my friend had a mare who damaged the impar ligs in both front feet and was written off, she was turned away as a field ornament but after about 12 months we noticed how sound she seemed in the field so we very gently started working her, she got up to a pretty decent work load -
2 hour hacks a couple of times per week (with trotting) and schooling 2 or 3 times plus a good canter (honest it was only a canter :D) in the field once a week, that was as far as we got as my friend put her in foal but i'm pretty sure she'd have taken more - and this was years ago when I still believed working horses needed shoes.
So there may well be hope yet. :-)
 
maggiesmum said:
All good advice above, I just wanted to add that my friend had a mare who damaged the impar ligs in both front feet and was written off, she was turned away as a field ornament but after about 12 months we noticed how sound she seemed in the field so we very gently started working her, she got up to a pretty decent work load -
2 hour hacks a couple of times per week (with trotting) and schooling 2 or 3 times plus a good canter (honest it was only a canter :D) in the field once a week, that was as far as we got as my friend put her in foal but i'm pretty sure she'd have taken more - and this was years ago when I still believed working horses needed shoes.
So there may well be hope yet. :-)
Click to expand...

Thanks maggiesmum, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear!! :)
Keeping my boy as a paddock ornament for 12 months is certainly an option!
 
Delta99 said:
Yes, that's my feeling but I don't want to do more damage.
I will try him on bute to see if the landing improves. Would one a day be enough, or would you give 2?

Definitely no trush etc, the trimmer actually commented on this and mentioned how healthy the frogs are.

Will try the credit card thing tomorrow.

Have ordered some boots but am a bit torn about this - I understand that the boots and pads will make the horse more comfortable and encourage a heel first landing... but obviously if the horse is on box rest and walking in boots, the feet will not 'self trim'?
Click to expand...

Self trimming isn't a factor right now. Self trimming is something endurance horses do. I am sceptical as to whether most horses can manage it.

Keeping your horse moving enough to develop his internal structures and strength is the priority. If boots achieve that, then boots it is.
Use them now, when he needs help and he probably won't need them for long.
 
I think at this point you've done all you can at home and in your shoes i'd be sending him to Rockleys. You cant then what if yourself for not trying everything possible :)
 
Oberon said:
Self trimming isn't a factor right now. Self trimming is something endurance horses do. I am sceptical as to whether most horses can manage it.

Keeping your horse moving enough to develop his internal structures and strength is the priority. If boots achieve that, then boots it is.
Use them now, when he needs help and he probably won't need them for long.
Click to expand...

So, if he needs to be moving to develop his internal structures, could I turn him out in boots to achieve that? He's only out for a few hours a day anyway at the moment....?

Santa Paws, how much walking would you do if he's on box rest? The vet said 10 mins twice a day, increasing to 20 mins twice a day but it is possible for me to pop out at lunchtime and walk him again if it needs to be done more frequently?
 
I think you need to follow your instincts, working with your horse day to day, your box bedding should be deep and dry, Rockley use straw pellets, if possible I would want to find a big barn or a small yard that he can go in rather than a stable so he can move around wtihout charging around, you can have several hay-nets around the stable-yard, and you might get a small pony to live with him, all difficult for the normal person, which is why I think you could try Rockley, but be firm in your intentions if they can't sort him.
Danolin twice a day is the usual dose for an animal in pain, pure Bute is not used much these days. If the no bute is working at the max dosage, then stay with that.
I am not keen on turning out on grass unless doped, as you have no control, and if the boots were to pull off you would have more strains.
Do you have a road/track next to turned out horses so he can go in there but not be tempted to hoolie.
 
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He won't be restricted in the field this time of year with rugs on - he just walks through any electric fence

Put a loop of electric tape through the front of the rug (down inside chest and back up outside) this should stop the problem as zaps the chest)
 
anniearab said:
He won't be restricted in the field this time of year with rugs on - he just walks through any electric fence

Put a loop of electric tape through the front of the rug (down inside chest and back up outside) this should stop the problem as zaps the chest)
Click to expand...

:) Thanks but when I said he won't be stopped by electric fencing, I did mean, he won't be stopped! I've tried all those things!
 
i would just turn him away for the next 6 months, out in a big field, ad lib hay and a god rug, and regular trims for his feet 6 to 8 weeks. then see where yo are at in 6 months time! ie next may/june! mother nature is a great healer . if you have the time and space to let it work!
 
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