barefoot (hnds)Now shod, huge difference in him. why?

charlie76

charlie76

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My dressage horse has been barefoot behind for over two years. He seemingly had good strong feet so had no need to shoe him behind. I believed he was managing fine without them, however, I have always struggled to get him to engage from behind esp in canter and actually posted a thread in competition riders asking for help with it and had some good suggestions. He also could not perform flying changes at all.
I even had him checked by the vet and physio and chiropractor all of which said he was fine so assumed he was lazy!
Despite numerous exercises and help from trainers we were getting now where with him so as a last ditch attempt before going the vet route or just accepting he wasn't going to be a dressage horse we stuck his hind shoes back on.

Well, the transformation for amazing, within three days he was really working through from behind, his canter is much more active ,balanced and workable and he gave me three clean changes which is un heard of!
Trainer came tonight and was amazed in the change in him and we had a long chat as to how a horse , worked on a very good surface, can be so different just by the addition of hind shoes?
I feel terrible as he has obviously been struggling for some time.

So why do you think it had such and extreme affect on his work esp on a surface ( on the hard I can sort of understand it)

Any ideas?
 
Omg! I've just taken my horse bf behind and he's going better! Will be watching this with interest tho to see what people think
Glad he's going better, if he needs shoes shoe him!
 
Because there were issues with his feet and now hes shod they arennt a problem anymore? I'm not aggressively pro barefoot, but if he wasnt ok and now he is in such a short space of time there was clearly an issue. You might be ok and it might never be a problem, but you might find a few months down the line you have a bigger problem.

If I shod my boy he would no doubt move better in the short term, but would end up written off after a few months :( Some horses are fine shod for their entire life, some arent. Mine is the latter sadly.

I'd be worried that shoes were masking an issue.
 
Honestly, cause he now can't feel the foot the same. Imagine walking over stones in pumps, then do it with leather shoes.
 
Even the most enthusiastic barefoot competitors say that the one surface they struggle on is wet grass. Dressage may be "natural paces" but we are asking the horse to do small circles and changes of pace and school movements when we want to and not when the horse wants to.

Even working on an artificial surface maybe having shoes on is giving him a more secure "platform" to work from. I know that farriers who shoe show horses, and competition horses in all disciplines have a few little tricks to help. The american stacked shoes that are rarely seen in this country have the reason behind them to give the high-stepping horses a secure footing.

It maybe that your horse simply feels more "secure" and it isn't anything to do with soundness.
 
There was a study done recently (I'll try to find it) about the effects on paces of barefoot.
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One thing I do remember is that there was a very noticeable difference in a horse for a few weeks when first shod but this then wore off.

Just something else to take into account.
 
He definitely wasn't lame and never has been ( my vet would clarify that). The horse is competing and gaining 66% plus scores advanced medium without hind shoes on, I just felt that there wasn't the push through from behind in canter that a horse with his ability and paces should have.
That's why I had him checked to make sure there wasn't an underlying issue. I started to draw the conclusion that he simply would never have the ability to really sit and collect when some one mentioned that it might be his lack of hind shoes, I honestly thought that it couldn't possibly be the issue but it seems it was.

I have since watched another horse that is unshod behind in his canter work and he too canters with a very straight inactive hind leg. He also struggles to really engage so perhaps there is something in it?
 
charlie76 said:
He definitely wasn't lame and never has been ( my vet would clarify that). The horse is competing and gaining 66% plus scores advanced medium without hind shoes on, I just felt that there wasn't the push through from behind in canter that a horse with his ability and paces should have.
That's why I had him checked to make sure there wasn't an underlying issue. I started to draw the conclusion that he simply would never have the ability to really sit and collect when some one mentioned that it might be his lack of hind shoes, I honestly thought that it couldn't possibly be the issue but it seems it was.

I have since watched another horse that is unshod behind in his canter work and he too canters with a very straight inactive hind leg. He also struggles to really engage so perhaps there is something in it?
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My friend's horse canter with a very straight and inactive hind leg and has been shod all his working life. Some horses just do.

Was your own horse absolutely sound on the back feet barefoot over a seriously stony surface?

My own guess is either that your horse was bilaterally foot sore, or that it is the additional weight on the end of his legs that have made the difference. They teach high stepper horses with weights on their feet for a reason.
 
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He was 100% sound on stoney ground without shoes, it was only the straight action in canter that I couldn't solve. I hunted and competed him to advanced medium without hind shoes and I never intended to put them back on,it was a trial that seemed to work!
 
I wondered whether the immediacey of a change in weight might have made a difference to him, will be interesting to hear if it lasts Charlie :).
 
I can't post a link from my mobile for the study I was referring to but if you put warwickshire college and shoeing dressage horses into google it should come up.

They analysed various aspects of gait and they concluded that there was no advantage to shoeing in terms of dressage but importantly all the horses had either been shod or barefoot for 12 months before analysis.

There was a change in gait when first shod but this wore off once the horse got used to shoes.
 
charlie76 said:
He was 100% sound on stoney ground without shoes, it was only the straight action in canter that I couldn't solve. I hunted and competed him to advanced medium without hind shoes and I never intended to put them back on,it was a trial that seemed to work!
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Then my guess is that it's the weight on the end of a very long lever, the leg. Please can you let us know if it lasts? It will be very interesting to know. And even though it's not my own preference, well done for thinking outside the box :)
 
I work my horses bf part do the time .
Some horses prefer shoes I don't over think this now I just go with what the horses prefer, so when they work hard they get shoes .
OP what would have helped would have been to nerve block one hind foot before the horse was shod.
Some horses are very very good at hiding bilateral soreness .
 
Goldenstar said:
I work my horses bf part do the time .
Some horses prefer shoes I don't over think this now I just go with what the horses prefer, so when they work hard they get shoes .
OP what would have helped would have been to nerve block one hind foot before the horse was shod.
Some horses are very very good at hiding bilateral soreness .
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GS I don't disagree with you, but I do think that maybe your horses' preference for shoes may be as much to do with how quickly, as a hunter, you need your horses to go into heavy work rather than that they are in heavy work per se?

I've had a few horses in heavy work who have been happy without shoes, but one of them needed a very slow build up to get his feet to cope with the increase in work.
 
Fi was exactly the same. She started off without hind shoes. I then had them put on for summer (studs). However I also noticed an improvement in the school.(confirmed by physio) When I asked my farrier and physio why, they both agreed it was because the foot now didn't sink into the surface as far. Therefore wasn't such hard work. Months later the improvement is still there :)
 
soulfull said:
Fi was exactly the same. She started off without hind shoes. I then had them put on for summer (studs). However I also noticed an improvement in the school.(confirmed by physio) When I asked my farrier and physio why, they both agreed it was because the foot now didn't sink into the surface as far. Therefore wasn't such hard work. Months later the improvement is still there :)
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Mechanically I don't understand that comment.
 
ester said:
Mechanically I don't understand that comment.
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Neither do I. The foot plus shoe will now sink deeper, because it will sink until the frog is ground bearing and the frog is now further off the ground. The horse may actually be more likely to be producing more activity because it's harder to get the foot to move forward and has to be lifted more to get it out of the surface before it can go forwards.
 
Yes - the contrast between Frank (unshod) and Cally (shod) hoof prints in all paces on a very flat beaches is very good for showing that - although it is also demonstrated by the lack of churning up Frank and I do when cantering on headlands compare to the shod beasts.
 
you will have lifted up his back end by the thickness of a shoe, most people i know thought my horse went better with shoes on when i had back ones put on, pity he doesn't stay sound in front though :-) in all seriousness i assume if was because we have levelled him up front to back.
 
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