Barefoot hoof rehab of reverse rotation of pedal bones & laminitis

[rwesthenzell]

Hoping some knowledgeable members like @ester and @ycbm can help.

My just turned 4 yo gelding was diagnosed with rotated pedal bones in both hind feet on march. New farrier took one look at his back feet and suggested xray due to their shape.

Potted history: I bought him a year ago. He was lightly backed in sept last year but I stopped all ridden work after a couple of months due to him developing v. slight lameness on right hind which only really showed on a circle and after flexion test. He also got very girthy and on scoping was diagnosed with mild squamous ulcers in Dec 2020 which I treated and he rescoped clear in Jan 2021.

Since Feb he has been grass livery but on top of reverse rotated pedal bones we now have issue of mild laminitis. He went all pottery after a trim and vet confirmed laminitis. He has been on box rest for ten days. He seems sound now and I am going to very gradually reintroduce grass this week.

What I want to know is how best to manage all this and what the chances are of him staying sound when ridden. I don't want to do any major competing - just basic pleasure riding and the odd bit of jumping. The farrier says he has very thin soles and we might always struggle with his feet. He had a bit of a poor start so I think his whole system has been compromised early on which doesn't help. I am worried he might never come 'right' given all these issues.

Any advice welcome!

 

[Melandmary]

I am absolutely no expert but after a recent laminitic experience and alot of reading I would say that if you sort out a good management and a good farrier and also a good diet to support healthy hoof growth you should be able to do that level of work. You say you're on grass livery. Have you worked out how to manage a laminitic kept this way as grass will always have to be restricted. I am feeding progressive earth pro hoof to help my mare. I would be also worrying about the thin soles and wondering if it would be best to do some remedial shoeing until feet improve but I am sure someone on here will be far better informed than I am. It is tough and you have to be dedicated to a new way of keeping your horse. My mare is field sound now but not quite right yet to ride ( I have been on for 10 mins) but it is early days. A friend of mine is regularly competing on her lami prone horse. If you get the management right you should be fine. Good luck ?

 

[Gloi]

If it were mine I would get him off grass as much as possible and feed him soaked hay in a bare paddock, ideally with others needing similar care to encourage movement if he is sound enough.
Progressive earth pro hoof is good and I feed it.
I'd boot and use pads to help the hooves develop, the best thing for hooves is movement and hopefully the soles will gain thickness and improve though they are unlikely to do if shod.

 

[paddy555]

can you provide a bit more info. Breed, what he is fed, does he get a supplement. Is he shod? are you intending he should remain shod if he is or are you proposing to keep and ride him barefoot. Are you prepared to boot him. If he is on grass livery does that mean he lives 24/7 on grass (except of course for the last 10 days)

any pics of the feet would be very helpful and a side view of your horse.

 

[Regandal]

I corrected negative palmer angles on the hind feet thanks to a gifted trimmer, pro earth supplement and a low sugar diet. Walked for miles in hand. Front feet needed boots and pads for a while but we got there.

 

[Melandmary]

Gloi can I ask why/how shoeing deters healthy soles.... Sorry if it is a dumb question. I expected that if the feet had some support while the hoof was regrowing the horse would be more comfortable. I am still learning ?

 

[Ownedby4horses]

OP, what has his treatment been since March (if I’ve read that right the rotation was then?). Do you know the percentage of rotation?

 

[Gloi]

The hoof needs to act as nature intended compressing the frog and allowing the hoof walls to expand with every step to build up the strength of the digital cushion. Being shod reduces the ability of the hoof to do this. Shoes just lift the sole off the ground and stop the walls wearing whereas boots and pads encourage the hoof to behave naturally while it recovers.
.https://scootboots.com/blogs/blog/the-digital-cushion-and-its-rehabilitation

 

[Melandmary]

Thankyou gloi, my mare actually has good feet but she is pigeon toed so they wear unevenly when doing a lot ofwork so I just had fronts on but I will speak to my farrier about taking them off. She actually hates being shod so might be a win win situation and get her hoof boots for hacking ?

 

[Gloi]

Thankyou gloi, my mare actually has good feet but she is pigeon toed so they wear unevenly when doing a lot ofwork so I just had fronts on but I will speak to my farrier about taking them off. She actually hates being shod so might be a win win situation and get her hoof boots for hacking ?

I started using hoof boots on my pony about 25 years ago when he had bad feet I couldn't keep shoes on. The boots weren't very good back then but now they are great and I'd probably only think of shoeing if I was doing something where I needed to use studs. I do quite a lot of road work but get over a years wear out of a set so when you find ones that suit they end up quite cost effective.

 

[shortstuff99]

Has she been tested for EMS? A 4 year old already with lami makes me think something metabolic is probably going on. It might be hard to treat if the underlying cause isn't addressed.

 

[ycbm]

With reverse rotation in the hind feet I would want a very thorough investigation, possibly with back x rays, of the back and SI, and the hind suspensories because I think they are often a result of a back issue or PSD. And if that shows nothing, then mineral supplements and a lot of conditioning work to try to build up the heels, which would bring the pedal bone back into the correct angle.
.

 

[ester]

It sounds like there is likely multiple issues going on and it could be a bit chicken/egg ish.
Did the right hind lameness resolve post ulcer treatment?
Poss grass sensitivty if was on the edge enough that trim then resulted in lami, poss still gut stuff going on then too.

It does sound like you have a proactive, interested farrier though so that's a plus!

Am presuming currently shod?

Sounds like might be a bit of a candidate for needing a fairly joined up approach to make changes but keep the horse sufficiently comfortable at the same time. - hoof wise/boot (or shoe) wise/diet wise/other lameness stuff wise.
Obviously hasn't coped with possibly a bigger change so it's going to have to be incremental.

Mine pref would be shoes off but only with comfort managed.
As an aside, despite that preference you might want to have a read through this guys page as he does a not of negative palmar angle work.

 

[Lisa88]

I know that this thread is from quite a while back, but did you manage to get to the bottom of the cause at all?
I have my boy who has been treated for ulcers, had 2 x treatments and have just come across a reverse rotated pedal bone on the fore right foot. I was wondering if this could be the relation to the ulcers, he wasn't showing lame on previous work up, but today shows lameness on the hard ground. I don't seem to be able to find much information anywhere regarding the reverse rotation of pedal bones, he has just turned 5 and this has been ongoing since trying to break at the beginning of the year.
Many Thanks

 

[Zoeypxo]

I know that this thread is from quite a while back, but did you manage to get to the bottom of the cause at all?
I have my boy who has been treated for ulcers, had 2 x treatments and have just come across a reverse rotated pedal bone on the fore right foot. I was wondering if this could be the relation to the ulcers, he wasn't showing lame on previous work up, but today shows lameness on the hard ground. I don't seem to be able to find much information anywhere regarding the reverse rotation of pedal bones, he has just turned 5 and this has been ongoing since trying to break at the beginning of the year.
Many Thanks

Do you mean NPA ?

The Negative Palmar Angle

www.equipodiatry.com

Lots of information on here also if you search ‘NPA’

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hoping some knowledgeable members like @ester and @ycbm can help.

My just turned 4 yo gelding was diagnosed with rotated pedal bones in both hind feet on march. New farrier took one look at his back feet and suggested xray due to their shape.

Potted history: I bought him a year ago. He was lightly backed in sept last year but I stopped all ridden work after a couple of months due to him developing v. slight lameness on right hind which only really showed on a circle and after flexion test. He also got very girthy and on scoping was diagnosed with mild squamous ulcers in Dec 2020 which I treated and he rescoped clear in Jan 2021.

Since Feb he has been grass livery but on top of reverse rotated pedal bones we now have issue of mild laminitis. He went all pottery after a trim and vet confirmed laminitis. He has been on box rest for ten days. He seems sound now and I am going to very gradually reintroduce grass this week.

What I want to know is how best to manage all this and what the chances are of him staying sound when ridden. I don't want to do any major competing - just basic pleasure riding and the odd bit of jumping. The farrier says he has very thin soles and we might always struggle with his feet. He had a bit of a poor start so I think his whole system has been compromised early on which doesn't help. I am worried he might never come 'right' given all these issues.

Any advice welcome!

I would scrap any idea of jumping and such, that will be a bonus if he's ok. I would not rush to get him back out on the grass, unless the vet has ok'd it. My laminitics are on turmeric which helps lami horses, also they are on lami watch all the time, check pulses etc, also restricted grazing.
I would either used soaked hay or timothy haylage which mine are on and the lowest haylage and best for laminitics as soaking hay in the winter is not nice. I would get your vet and remedial farrier to work on him, I just changed to a barefoot trimmer as mare wont be ridden again.

Diet is important low starch etc. Having lost one to Laminitis and had 4 others with it and diagnosed a livery with it, you can never be too careful. Going forward turnout grazing and shoeing is vital and you need a good vet and farrier on board.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I know that this thread is from quite a while back, but did you manage to get to the bottom of the cause at all?
I have my boy who has been treated for ulcers, had 2 x treatments and have just come across a reverse rotated pedal bone on the fore right foot. I was wondering if this could be the relation to the ulcers, he wasn't showing lame on previous work up, but today shows lameness on the hard ground. I don't seem to be able to find much information anywhere regarding the reverse rotation of pedal bones, he has just turned 5 and this has been ongoing since trying to break at the beginning of the year.
Many Thanks

Hi Lisa, welcome!
I would start your own thread, you'll find you get a lot more help that way.

 

[Lisa88]

Do you mean NPA ?

The Negative Palmar Angle

www.equipodiatry.com

Lots of information on here also if you search ‘NPA’

Ahh Thank you

 

[Lisa88]

Hi Lisa, welcome!
I would start your own thread, you'll find you get a lot more help that way.

Sorry I am not sure how still looking where everything is lol

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Horses should never be sore after a trim. It means whoever has done it has done a bit of a butchering. Conservative is always best. Frogs should be left alone, toes shouldn't be cut back and conventional symmetrical shapes shouldn't be forced. Remedial shoeing is also never the answer and is the fastest (and most expensive) way to cause long term problems.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Sorry I am not sure how still looking where everything is lol

Look at the top of this page. Above the thread title click on "tack room"

• Home > Forums > HHO Forum > The Tack Room

​

 

[Glitter's fun]

Now at the top of the list of threads there's a box with your avatar then "no prefix, Title".
Click on "title" to write your new thread.

 

[holeymoley]

Reverse rotation is throwing me off. Do you mean a negative palmer angle? Rotation it is, but I have the word rotation linked with laminitis. Negative palmer angles are quite common, in the ones I’ve seen it’s because the heel’s been crushed with bad shoeing or been allowed to shoot forward.