Barefoot. How to correct heels running forward? Pics!

[McGrools]

Hi guys, hoping for advice. I have started new thread as more specific question.
So this little tb has been out of front shoes 3 weeks and his heels are getting longer. He is standing on them and crushing them and they are running more underneath him. Wwyd to help correct this? Top 2 pics from today, bottom 2 pics from 3 weeks ago. It looks like the heel has grown a lot in that time.
He is turned out in soft ground and walks ok on that but struggles on any other surface

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Get your Farrier to come and trim the toes every two weeks. It is much better for the horse little and often than a lot all in one go which might make him sore and even better for his overall balance. The strain on tendons and ligaments from incorrect angles will just create more problems for you.

 

[PurBee]

Theyre not that bad - many times heels growing long splay out and bend forward, whereas the heels on those hooves are still growing relatively straight and need a trim down, so they dont become folded under.

Normally the toes are really long too on classic under-run heels, but there’s not much toe wall on your hooves.
It looks more like the front sole is getting stimulation and that is creating deep concavity.
I would focus on getting a trimmer/farrier to bring the heels lower and in alignment, see how the foot develops with just that approach.
There’s not much thickness of wall over most the hoof, except the heels.
The sole edges are taking the stride pressure, causing them to grow excessively, creating a real deep concave look.

Hooves tell us so much about growth. Where there’s stimulation there’s growth.
Because the heels are long theyre supporting more than they should so grow longer than the rest of the wall.
The back of the frog looking weaker than the rest of the frog shows the heel walls are taking the majority of weight rather than frog.
With the heels rasped down, the back frog would contact the ground more taking load and would develop and firm-up.
You could find he copes better with more surfaces with just the heels rasped in alignment. They can be tender footed if the heel is overgrowing and the wall ‘straining/bending’ with each stride

Thats a nice frog in shape and length overall in relation to the rest of the foot shape - just the back needs developing/strengthening.
The hoof walls will develop if the outer ridge of sole wasnt taking the weight of the hoof.
This will probably self correct if the heel loading of weight is improved via trimming the heels.
With the heel walls trimmed down the bars can also come back into play, as currently theyre not developing growth due to the excess heel wall.

Have you got him on a barefoot supplement like forage plus? That is worth it to aid better quality wall growth.

If you share the region youre located, there’s lots on here that probably know a good farrier/trimmer in your area, if you dont already have one.

 

[Red-1]

I have seen worse. Is the horse comfortable to walk on the road? I would start with 100yds a day and build it up from that.

I also agree with asking someone to show you how to do maintenance trims, between trimming cycles. I used to trim twice a week.

 

[ester]

Three weeks is nothing, at this stage personally I'd leave them be, taking them down will likely force frog engagement before it's comfortably ready to do so. It looks like the rest of the back of the hoof is doing a fair job of 'relaxing' already.

 

[I'm Dun]

Mine was much worse. I kept bringing the toes back AND rasping the heels. It took 6 months really to get where I was happy. It's not an overnight fix. Trimming the bars back had a huge effect. I can't work out from your photos if his bars have flattened and run out to the sides and down. If they have they need bringing back shorter and tighter.

I'd be rasping the toes every few days. The heels I would do anytime I saw they needed it. It was every couple of days to start with. I really like this Facebook group for the markups they do.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2592491947649145/

I was very stressed and worried about stripping the bars back on mine but it made an immediate and dramatic difference so I'm glad I did!

 

[paddy555]

based on what I can see on the pics (and pics can be misleading)

If you look at the pics of the RH you can see the widening at the back of the foot. Only a little but on in it's way.

I cannot see there is anything to trim on the bars nor on the toe. I wouldn't touch either. You can see on the LF later pic he is wearing the toe. It would be a mistake to trim the toe. This, to me, doesn't seem to be a classic running forward type of foot.
If he was mine I would run a rasp very lightly around the edges to smooth the edge and prevent cracking.

As for the heel that is where I would work. Take it down too much and you have the back of the foot that is not yet strong enough to take it. Let them grow long and the back doesn't get the stimulation to make it improve.

You could pull the rasp back over the heels a couple of times on the smooth side of the rasp and probably repeat every 3 days or so. That would be taking only a tiny bit off at a time but would keep the heels going in the right direction, being slightly lowered and shouldn't cause the horse discomfort.

One farrier I learnt from called the surface left after drawing the rasp back over the heels "landing pads" that is the effect it creates and is a pretty good description ie the horse has a surface on the heels to land on.

 

[McGrools]

Thankyou so much for all your replies. They have made me feel better. I like the ‘landing pads’ description Paddy. That is what i ferl he needs.
i’m on the staffs/ cheshire border if anyone can recommend a trimmer. I prefer the leave it alone method and natural trims will sort but just thinking that the heels need a bit of help xx

 

[McGrools]

I really like this Facebook group for the markups they do.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2592491947649145/

I was very stressed and worried about stripping the bars back on mine but it made an immediate and dramatic difference so I'm glad I did!

Many thanks for the fb recomendation.joined pending approval x

 

[McGrools]

Theyre not that bad - many times heels growing long splay out and bend forward, whereas the heels on those hooves are still growing relatively straight and need a trim down, so they dont become folded under.

Normally the toes are really long too on classic under-run heels, but there’s not much toe wall on your hooves.
It looks more like the front sole is getting stimulation and that is creating deep concavity.
I would focus on getting a trimmer/farrier to bring the heels lower and in alignment, see how the foot develops with just that approach.
There’s not much thickness of wall over most the hoof, except the heels.
The sole edges are taking the stride pressure, causing them to grow excessively, creating a real deep concave look.

Hooves tell us so much about growth. Where there’s stimulation there’s growth.
Because the heels are long theyre supporting more than they should so grow longer than the rest of the wall.
The back of the frog looking weaker than the rest of the frog shows the heel walls are taking the majority of weight rather than frog.
With the heels rasped down, the back frog would contact the ground more taking load and would develop and firm-up.
You could find he copes better with more surfaces with just the heels rasped in alignment. They can be tender footed if the heel is overgrowing and the wall ‘straining/bending’ with each stride

Thats a nice frog in shape and length overall in relation to the rest of the foot shape - just the back needs developing/strengthening.
The hoof walls will develop if the outer ridge of sole wasnt taking the weight of the hoof.
This will probably self correct if the heel loading of weight is improved via trimming the heels.
With the heel walls trimmed down the bars can also come back into play, as currently theyre not developing growth due to the excess heel wall.

Have you got him on a barefoot supplement like forage plus? That is worth it to aid better quality wall growth.

If you share the region youre located, there’s lots on here that probably know a good farrier/trimmer in your area, if you dont already have one.

That all makes perfect sense to me Purbee. Thankyou for such an in depth response.
Yes he is on progressive earth platinum. I am on staffs/cheshire border. I have run the rasp lightly over the toes once but i do feel the heels need some attention

 

[paddy555]

Thankyou so much for all your replies. They have made me feel better. I like the ‘landing pads’ description Paddy. That is what i ferl he needs.
i’m on the staffs/ cheshire border if anyone can recommend a trimmer. I prefer the leave it alone method and natural trims will sort but just thinking that the heels need a bit of help xx

in your location I would see if Mark Johnson covers it. That would be my first choice. After that ask YCBM who may know of someone ( or may know of someone to avoid)

 

[PurBee]

Thankyou so much for all your replies. They have made me feel better. I like the ‘landing pads’ description Paddy. That is what i ferl he needs.
i’m on the staffs/ cheshire border if anyone can recommend a trimmer. I prefer the leave it alone method and natural trims will sort but just thinking that the heels need a bit of help xx

Mine self trim to an extent due to having hardcore rocky tracks to graze along aswell as softer ground. The mix of terrain enables self-trimming. If they’re on mostly soft pasture (this time of year most pasture is soft)…and then have soft bedded stable at night, there’s not going to be exposure to any abrasive surface to adequately self-trim.

Bogland /marsh ponies self trim by growing long, eventually splaying out, the splayed out wall becomes wet and soft and you find the wall shearing chunks off. Theyre still ‘functioning working hooves’ - they just look awful.
A farmer close by had a stallion kept in a damp field so i witnessed the process close-up too. Nature has a way of dealing with hooves. If we then put that horse on firm tarmac/concrete the horse would be uncomfortable.

Your boy is just out of shoes so early days. Just saw your response - the supplements will help a lot.

Hopefully someone knows a trimmer close to you. If you get no response here, maybe start a new thread specifically requesting trimmer recommendations.
If youre confident with some rasping, as paddy recommends, just slowly rasp down the heels bit by bit, rather than rasp all the excess heel height off all in 1 trim. The pictures are sometimes hard to see, but it looks like the very top of the heel wall curves drastically high aswell as bends. So he lacks that firm landing pad paddy mentioned.
i suspect with just that top 4-5mm of curved wall rasped flat he’ll be more comfortable.

 

[ycbm]

That all makes perfect sense to me Purbee. Thankyou for such an in depth response.
Yes he is on progressive earth platinum. I am on staffs/cheshire border. I have run the rasp lightly over the toes once but i do feel the heels need some attention

On the understanding that I am an amateur, not a professional, I'll happily come and see them to give you some reassurance if you like, you can't be far from me.

 

[McGrools]

On the understanding that I am an amateur, not a professional, I'll happily come and see them to give you some reassurance if you like, you can't be far from me.

Oo yes please that would be great! I’ll pm xx

 

[McGrools]

Some side on pics just to show how under his heels are.
i’ve just taken him for a walk down lane and he was actually ok. I think he just looks awful stepping out of the stable but then seems to walk out ok

 

[Red-1]

Some side on pics just to show how under his heels are.
i’ve just taken him for a walk down lane and he was actually ok. I think he just looks awful stepping out of the stable but then seems to walk out ok

Theyu have some work to do, but the walking on tarmac is tops, IMO, as long as you start slowly and only build it up slowly. I call it a 'council trim' ?

I would still get your trimmer to show you how to maintain. It is just a sliver each time, more organic a change than taking a lot off in one go.

I recommend Fiona Varian as a trimmer. You can find her by Google, she travels distance to see horses.

 

[McGrools]

Theyu have some work to do, but the walking on tarmac is tops, IMO, as long as you start slowly and only build it up slowly. I call it a 'council trim' ?

he shall be proceeding with the council trim asap. Many thanks

 

[HappyHollyDays]

in your location I would see if Mark Johnson covers it. That would be my first choice. After that ask YCBM who may know of someone ( or may know of someone to avoid)

Mark is fantastic but I don’t think he goes that far north.

 

[ester]

yup just start 5 min road walking

sometimes less is more my own boy (who started off flat and under run never really coped with anyone touching heels or bars). We tried but it was counterproductive. - which probably influences my comments!

 

[I'm Dun]

yup just start 5 min road walking

sometimes less is more my own boy (who started off flat and under run never really coped with anyone touching heels or bars). We tried but it was counterproductive. - which probably influences my comments!

I wasnt keen on touching my horses, but interestingly they never grew back, so I guess once he had the landing pads and shorter toe, he didnt need them anymore