barefoot I am getting seriously worried PART 2

I think that the online response was proportionate to spreading such a dangerous and unbased message. You can't go around saying that diet doesn't cause laminitis and expect there to be no repercussions. Even The Royal Veterinary Collage has put out a statement now.

It's times like these when I think social media has done more bad than good for horse welfare. If some people think that these establishments are the oracle of hoof care and horse management, they will take this information to heart and the outcome could be catastrophic for some horses who need their sugar intake carefully managed.

I like to put my money where my mouth is and have avoided brands in the past who sponsor individuals/establishments who go out of their way to cause trouble online. The only time I have ever been harassed online was by their followers, and it wasn't even on their page. But they've infiltrated every barefoot horse group on the internet and the aggression is like nothing I've ever experienced before.

The track community is generally friendly, collaborative and fun. There are so many tracks, both commercial and private, showcasing creative and enriching environments for horses of all breeds and ages. I hate the hostility which has been generated by one group of people in something which should feel like a safe space for more alternative horse folk.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Have you got a link to the RCVS statement?
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It was posted 5 hours ago on their FB page. They don't mention the groups but it reads clearly as a response to me, this is part of it:

"Research has shown that 90% of cases of laminitis are associated with an underlying endocrine (hormone) disease, with the two most common being equine metabolic syndrome (EMS) and pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction (PPID; also known as equine Cushing’s disease). In both of these diseases, it is high blood concentrations of the metabolic hormone insulin that seem to be responsible for causing the laminitis, and diet plays a big role in how much insulin there is in the blood at any given time, alongside the presence of EMS and PPID."
 
Miss_Millie said:
It was posted 5 hours ago on their FB page. They don't mention the groups but it reads clearly as a response to me, this is part of it:

"Research has shown that 90% of cases of laminitis are associated with an underlying endocrine (hormone) disease, with the two most common being equine metabolic syndrome (EMS) and pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction (PPID; also known as equine Cushing’s disease). In both of these diseases, it is high blood concentrations of the metabolic hormone insulin that seem to be responsible for causing the laminitis, and diet plays a big role in how much insulin there is in the blood at any given time, alongside the presence of EMS and PPID."
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This is very interesting and relevant, but I think you do have to also consider that the state of some of the hooves that are shown on the track livery page are horrendous and some of that has to be down to the hoofcare
 
It’s easy to say the trim is everything especially when you look at the state of Hectors feet when he arrived and how obese he was. I’m pretty sure that without losing weight he wouldn’t be doing so well with just the trim . I’m another who wonders about the effect on the rest of the leg when the trim is so drastic ..I thought that sort of change was supposed to be done gradually over a number of trims ,
 
tda said:
This is very interesting and relevant, but I think you do have to also consider that the state of some of the hooves that are shown on the track livery page are horrendous and some of that has to be down to the hoofcare
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Yes definitely, and rehab livery yards will always have the worst examples you can imagine, where the horses have been failed on all fronts in terms of their lifestyle - diet, hoofcare, turnout etc. They will always have the most extreme examples come to them where people are at the end of their tether and out of other options. When a horse is that crippled, there are probably a snowball of triggers and inputs leading to things getting that bad.

This doesn't mean that a high proportion of laminitis cases aren't caused primarily by diet. Stating that laminitis is never caused by diet is grossly untrue and indefensible.
 
It’s not unknown for horses which have to undergo a prolonged period of standing box rest in cross ties after a pelvic fracture to get laminitis due to the lengthy time that they are standing immobile.

It happened to the mare I had here, she got laminitis in the ‘good’ hind leg, but she did go on to recover both from the fracture and the laminitis.

Vet said that she must not be allowed to lie down, so the cross ties it was. Hay net one side, raised water buckets the other.
 
Noble said:
I have known a horse suffer a bout of laminitis due to the loss of a field mate, due to the stress, but maybe this was what was meant?
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This is entirely possible, cortisol rush from stress (and particularly if horse has suffered laminitis before) can trigger laminitis. We lost a mare like this following an horrendous fireworks display. But other things can trigger it, including powerful wormers, retained placenta, road founder, additional pressure when another leg is splinted up, absolutely appalling trimming and shoeing - but one of the most prevalent and direct causes is access to inappropriate foodstuffs, and it is irresponsible as well as ignorant to minimise that possibility.
 
It's very strange to me how one horse developing laminitis type changes when grass free = diet does not cause laminitis as I think it's well established that diet isn't the ONLY reason. Very black and white thinking 🤷
 
And also I was like even if on paper your diet management is amazing (hence you’re claiming your n=1 must mean it’s trim) some horses are more sensitive than others to different things.

There seems to be some back tracking re the laminitis vs pedal bone rotation definition/situations atm.
 
Miss_Millie said:
I saw a post of a vet sharing progress of a laminitic pony with client's permission and it was chock full of unsolicited 'sHoW uS tHE XraYS!!!' comments. Where do they get off thinking that they're entitled to x-rays of a pony which has nothing to do with them? Unhinged behaviour.
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It's that sort of conspiracy theory thinking imagining something id being hidden or nefarious reasons.

It's beside the point that I could post a load of doctored x-rays and claim they mean or are from whatever I want to to people who don't understand what they are looking at...
 
ester said:
And also I was like even if on paper your diet management is amazing (hence you’re claiming your n=1 must mean it’s trim) some horses are more sensitive than others to different things.

There seems to be some back tracking re the laminitis vs pedal bone rotation definition/situations atm.
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Yes! Totally agree with this. My cob has EMS and at one point became shockingly obese (before we'd realised the extent of his good-doer-ness, he was turned out on a new paddock while I was on holiday. He ate all of it in two weeks and I came back to a whale). However he has never shown the slightest inkling of laminitis, even when his insulin was really very high. Whereas others only have to over eat for one night and they'll be crippled in the morning. It's obviously very individual.
 
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