Barefoot issues - may be contentious

millitiger said:
I think we have similar demands; we have young, green horses who need to be progressing and working this year as they aren't established enough to have time off every time it rains.

I NEED to keep my horse hacking and going out and working to keep his brain active- he has just turned a real corner in his attitude and work and I'm not foresaking that to keep him barefoot.

)
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I have to agree with this. Although I do not have any immediate competitive aims. I have the most willing little newly backed mare who I want to continue being forward and happy in her work.
Being young, she's never been shod, but the temptation to get fronts on her is getting bigger. I too keep at livery but until I am in a position to move her to somewhere where I can keep her more barefoot friendly, I may have to shoe her.

I have thought of putting on the fronts, and then giving her feet a 'shoeing break' every few months to allow nail holes to grow out and take her barefoot part time. But, if I had the barefoot friendly system, by this I( personally) mean the oppurtunity to 'yard her' a few hours morning and evening with soaked hay, I would then hope to take her full time barefoot.

I know that there is more to keeping horses barefoot than that, but the above is the least that I would intend to provide her with in terms of BF management when I have the oppurtunity to find the right place to keep her.
 
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The TBs feet argument always makes me smile too. I think TBs are more prone to flat feet. They can go barefoot, but they often take a great deal of more careful management than a say another breed. Boxy upright feet seem to fair very well barefoot - I wonder why ? I expect it is the concavity of the sole and the lesser surface area on the ground.
My WB interestingly has amazing feet - he has been unshod now for some 20 months. The horn quality is great. He is on a cereal and sugar free winter diet, but has unlimited grass of mid quality at the moment.

Noone should make anyone feel inferior for having shod horses. I don't see barefoot horses at 4* eventing. People shoe horses for various reasons and if we go back to what nature intended then we should stop riding horses altogether.
 
siennamum said:
Why can't the horn change according to a weather report. If I put my hands in water for a long time, my nails soften.

My unshod horses feet are visibly wearing down, they don't do this in normal Winters, this Summer they are constantly wet, that's the only real difference. I think their feet are softer.
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I was about to have the hind shoes taken off my new pony (they'll go back on when we start autumn hunting) as his feet are great and we don't do enough roadwork to warrant them but I might leave them on now, if lots are having problems. Our fields are a few inches under water in most places, although we have loads of grass, and large areas are a mudbath. My horses do come in from about 8.30am to 7pm so their feet do get chance to dry out but the big lad has mud fever which he never gets usually in the summer... Maybe I'll leave the pony's hind shoes on since I don't want him sore and off work!
 
chestnut cob said:
I was about to have the hind shoes taken off my new pony (they'll go back on when we start autumn hunting) as his feet are great and we don't do enough roadwork to warrant them but I might leave them on now, if lots are having problems. Our fields are a few inches under water in most places, although we have loads of grass, and large areas are a mudbath. My horses do come in from about 8.30am to 7pm so their feet do get chance to dry out but the big lad has mud fever which he never gets usually in the summer... Maybe I'll leave the pony's hind shoes on since I don't want him sore and off work!
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What is concerning me slightly is the uneven wear I'm suddenly getting I think my farrier will have a right go at me. His toes are getting worn back and I worry about seedy toe etc. I am over dramatising but really just want to be able to work him without worrying about it being painful. We have an ODE coming up don't you know!!! We'll be walking round the XC at this rate!
 
siennamum said:
What is concerning me slightly is the uneven wear I'm suddenly getting I think my farrier will have a right go at me. His toes are getting worn back and I worry about seedy toe etc. I am over dramatising but really just want to be able to work him without worrying about it being painful. We have an ODE coming up don't you know!!! We'll be walking round the XC at this rate!
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siennamum, do you know why he's wearing his toes more? If you're struggling with thrush in the wet weather could it be he's started landing toe first? Worth checking before putting shoes on, as toe first landings are trouble.

It's not always that, though. My TB was wearing his toes earlier this year, and I discovered it was due to him scuffing them in trot out on the roads. Long story short - it was being caused by his saddle no longer fitting, and pinching his shoulders.
 
I was going to leave this post alone, because I agree and disagree with everybody..... but my Mum always said I was perverse. I put it down to being a Gemini.

Anyway. I look after about 200 horses hooves. And they are all different.

Many share similar living conditions, diets and lifestyles. But their hooves are still different.

For example one of them is an advanced endurance horse. Lives in wet mud 24/7 but hooves are tough enough to do 80km in a day (bare not booted) and can trot on gravel faster than a TB can canter. No problem with soft or tender hooves there.

Other horses which come in part of the day and have drier living conditions have softer feet. But they don't work so hard.

Is there a link? Possibly but the numbers are too small to judge.

Many of the hooves are softer than they were last year, but many are just as hard, if not harder.

Sure wet can make a difference, although I find from my perspective that there is more of a problem with thrush (from wet on its own) and this can make horses very foot sore.

I am also seeing horses that last year were out on grass 24/7 with no or little white line stretch that this year have a significant stretch - that is the weather's effect on the grass growth.
 
TwoStroke said:
siennamum, do you know why he's wearing his toes more? If you're struggling with thrush in the wet weather could it be he's started landing toe first? Worth checking before putting shoes on, as toe first landings are trouble.

It's not always that, though. My TB was wearing his toes earlier this year, and I discovered it was due to him scuffing them in trot out on the roads. Long story short - it was being caused by his saddle no longer fitting, and pinching his shoulders.
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He is a bit of a daisy cutter anyway, and I think he is taking shorter less confident steps and feeling his way a bit at the moment. It's a bit of a vicious circle I think. It is an interesting point about the thrush, I had a good look at his feet earlier today and thought that if I put pictures up here people would be in admiration about how fab his feet look, very heathy and a great shape (just a bit soft...).
 
TwoStroke said:
Cripes, now we're terrible people not only for answering people's questions and trying to help them with their horses' feet, but also for having horses that can cope with wet weather!

The bottom line - imho - is that we're not making you feel anything; we're just relating our experiences.
We've said time and again that if an owner can't keep their horse comfortable barefoot then they should shoe. If you feel bad because of what we're saying, perhaps you should really consider why?

It is your interpretation which causes these feelings - it has nothing whatsoever to do with us. Nor do we insult you, or twist your words like you are doing above.
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This is exactly illustrates my point. More lying the blame for 'failure' on the owner who fails to have a rock crunching barefoot stomping horse for all seasons.

The frequent reference to 'we' when making a point only serves to highlight the separation between the lone horse owner who is failing and the 'oblivious-to-a-problem-if-you-devote-yourself-to-our-way-of-thinking' barefoot clique.

If only the more zealous among you would tone this attitude down, then the good bits of hoofcare advice would not lost to the forum members who avoid barefoot posts like the plague.
 
siennamum said:
He is a bit of a daisy cutter anyway, and I think he is taking shorter less confident steps and feeling his way a bit at the moment. It's a bit of a vicious circle I think. It is an interesting point about the thrush, I had a good look at his feet earlier today and thought that if I put pictures up here people would be in admiration about how fab his feet look, very heathy and a great shape (just a bit soft...).
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why not post some solar views?
 
horserider said:
This is exactly illustrates my point. More lying the blame for 'failure' on the owner who fails to have a rock crunching barefoot stomping horse for all seasons.

The frequent reference to 'we' when making a point only serves to highlight the separation between the lone horse owner who is failing and the 'oblivious-to-a-problem-if-you-devote-yourself-to-our-way-of-thinking' barefoot clique.

If only the more zealous among you would tone this attitude down, then the good bits of hoofcare advice would not lost to the forum members who avoid barefoot posts like the plague.
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Good grief :(. I was only saying 'we' because it was a group of us you are talking about, isn't it?

What's wrong with saying that some people can't keep their horses comfortable barefoot? It's not an easy thing to do, often, especially if people are on livery. Sometimes it's nigh impossible - why should you feel bad about making the best choice for your horse in the circumstances? None of us barefooters are accusing anyone of not making the best choice for their horse.

I really don't understand what is so offensive to you :(.
 
TwoStroke said:
Good grief :(. I was only saying 'we' because it was a group of us you are talking about, isn't it?

What's wrong with saying that some people can't keep their horses comfortable barefoot? It's not an easy thing to do, often, especially if people are on livery. Sometimes it's nigh impossible - why should you feel bad about making the best choice for your horse in the circumstances? None of us barefooters are accusing anyone of not making the best choice for their horse.

I really don't understand what is so offensive to you :(.
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I think (and that was the point of the thread really) is that people can feel rather browbeaten. I find the information really useful and interesting and we all love the discussions, but I bet there are people who would post if it weren't intimidating.
 
To answer OP, I have had the same issues in winter as I am this summer. Quicker wear down. So not an exclusive issue during winter for me. It's not just a little wet. It's winter bog mud. They are being stalled during the day to try and help. When it was drying up everyone was much happier. Now today a bog again. If it stays like this again for an extended period of time, I will probably notice some issues. So no, not just a grass problem.

Terri
 
siennamum said:
I will cause he has lovely feet, but I suspect you will be aggreived I am slapping shoes on him.
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Better to shoe a good foot than a weak one ;).

siennamum said:
I think (and that was the point of the thread really) is that people can feel rather browbeaten. I find the information really useful and interesting and we all love the discussions, but I bet there are people who would post if it weren't intimidating.
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Well, I shall try to be less intimidating :o. When you're passionate about something, though, it's hard to write in a dispassionate way. I don't mean to beat anyone's brow, though!
 
siennamum said:
Maybe I simply do more roadwork that you. Maybe my horse has more sensitive feet than yours. Maybe our fields are more muddy than yours - don't know.

You see this kind of p*ss taking is what I meant by people being beaten round the head because their views differed from yours (not you specifically) I do not think my horse has soft little human nails, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that horses feet get softer in the wet.
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I am not taking the mickey. I thought you were.
 
horserider said:
This is exactly illustrates my point. More lying the blame for 'failure' on the owner who fails to have a rock crunching barefoot stomping horse for all seasons.

The frequent reference to 'we' when making a point only serves to highlight the separation between the lone horse owner who is failing and the 'oblivious-to-a-problem-if-you-devote-yourself-to-our-way-of-thinking' barefoot clique.

If only the more zealous among you would tone this attitude down, then the good bits of hoofcare advice would not lost to the forum members who avoid barefoot posts like the plague.
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If you hate barefoot then why do you come on here to whine about them and their superior knowledge of hoof care? :D
 
tallyho! said:


Oh well, then I may as well continue... It's too windy to ride and I can't be arsed to wade through the mud :D
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It's awful, isn't is? :mad: I hate poo picking in this weather! I've been experimenting with an extended handle on the poo picking devices, so I can do the fields from atop my youngster. I'm struggling with how to attach a wheelbarrow so it's accessible from on board, though :confused:. And then there's the freaking-out-the-just-backed-youngster issue...
 
TwoStroke said:
It's awful, isn't is? :mad: I hate poo picking in this weather! I've been experimenting with an extended handle on the poo picking devices, so I can do the fields from atop my youngster. I'm struggling with how to attach a wheelbarrow so it's accessible from on board, though :confused:. And then there's the freaking-out-the-just-backed-youngster issue...
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You could attach wheelbarrow backwards like a skip-trap to said horse and the sit atop him facing backwards. Novel, I know, but it's a potential winner. You could fashion a scissor-action poop scooper to scoop up wet poo as horse meanders around. Until he is target trained of course.

Please send photo... :D
 
tallyho! said:
You could attach wheelbarrow backwards like a skip-trap to said horse and the sit atop him facing backwards. Novel, I know, but it's a potential winner. You could fashion a scissor-action poop scooper to scoop up wet poo as horse meanders around. Until he is target trained of course.

Please send photo... :D
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Hmm... I will experiment and report back :D. May have to fix mirrors to his backside, so I can see where I'm going...
 
Mirrors are a great idea and parking sensors in case he gets too close to corners. Reversing with trailers is a pain in the bum....

:D
 
tallyho! said:
If you hate barefoot then why do you come on here to whine about them and their superior knowledge of hoof care? :D
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Just to redress the balance.

I'm not intimidated by a very vocal group who sometimes harm the thing they are so passionate about.

So accuse me of whining if you wish, it matters not one jot to me.
 
Oberon said:
To clarify my position on this before any one decides to do it for me.....I think it's dangerous to merely assume everything is down to the weather and not look at any other issues that may be causing soreness or poor hooves.

The weather has been blamed for everything for a very long time (check out the WCF website) but I feel it's important to look holistically rather than focusing on one thing.

I worry that "it's the weather" can be used as an excuse by some professionals for poor hooves and as we can't do anything about the weather, then no one looks any further :(.

Speaking for myself, I would hope I have never made anyone "feel like a failure" for choosing to make their horse more comfortable. It's their horse at the end of the day and their choice what they do.

And if I reference my horses in my posts - it's to highlight that, as an Average Joe horse owner with no particular skill or special environment, my horses are managing OK. I certainly don't mean to infer anything by it. It upsets me that people may take it differently :(

Not meaning to flounce, but I often feel like giving up posting on here and spend my spare time more productively.

None more so than today :(.
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Don't give up posting I for one have learnt a lot from you and you are one the posters who convinced me to try BF with my first one.
I really don't agree with OP's point no one forces anyone on here and no forces any one to post advice is given and may or not be taken .
I would never ask my farriers advice about my BF horse it would be a complete waste of energy since his view is that he can't be doing want he's doing without shoes.
If someone posts my horse is foot sore you can expect BF's to say have you tried this have you tried that and then most say if it's not working out shoe and get on with life. The shoers say shoe what else can they say ?
I really struggle to understand why this such an emotive subject .
 
horserider said:
Just to redress the balance.

I'm not intimidated by a very vocal group who sometimes harm the thing they are so passionate about.

So accuse me of whining if you wish, it matters not one jot to me.
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It only seems to harm a very small group which includes you for some reason, and that matters not one jot to me neither :)
 
horserider said:
Just to redress the balance.

I'm not intimidated by a very vocal group who sometimes harm the thing they are so passionate about.

So accuse me of whining if you wish, it matters not one jot to me.
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Who is trying to intimidate you ,you may not agree with those who work horses BF but not agreeing with you is not intimidation .
 
Goldenstar said:
Who is trying to intimidate you ,you may not agree with those who work horses BF but not agreeing with you is not intimidation .
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Actually, my horses are in full work and unshod. Thanks to the partnership I have with my farrier.

I'm not intimidated so those amongst you who are so taken with the latest trend of internet trained barefoot trimmers, keep shouting and someone might think its accepted practice in the horse world.

I'll stick with the WCF.
 
horserider said:
Actually, my horses are in full work and unshod. Thanks to the partnership I have with my farrier.

I'm not intimidated so those amongst you who are so taken with the latest trend of internet trained barefoot trimmers, keep shouting and someone might think its accepted practice in the horse world.

I'll stick with the WCF.
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That's your choice but no one is saying don't use farriers I don't but why would I mind if you do and what proof do you have that the people who post on here are using Internet trained trimmers.
There are bad trimmers and bad farriers there's no difference.
It would be a complete waste of time to get my farrier to manage my BF horse it's just not what he's into.
 
horserider said:
Actually, my horses are in full work and unshod. Thanks to the partnership I have with my farrier.

I'm not intimidated so those amongst you who are so taken with the latest trend of internet trained barefoot trimmers, keep shouting and someone might think its accepted practice in the horse world.

I'll stick with the WCF.
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No worries there, we will... thanks :)
 
Jeez - if you want to shoe your horse, get on and do it - nobody really gives a toss and you'd be in the majority anyway! If you want to go/stay unshod get on and do it. I would hope most people on here know their own horses better than any other posters do, so just do what is best for your horses.

The barefoot people are relating their own experiences and knowledge when they post, and as they are in a minority they may feel the need to shout louder in order to be heard. I see most of their posts as constructive and they've helped me a lot. For now my horses are unshod, but who knows what's round the corner? If in the future I have to shoe, it will be my decision, not the decision of a bunch of unknown people on an internet forum. But that's not to say I won't ask advice. If you ask for advice, then people are going to respond. If you don't like what they put, then don't take any notice! Simple!
 
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