Barefoot navicular help - boots/advice/books to read etc

[emfen1305]

I know this a very overdone topic on the forum but could do with being pointed in the right direction of some useful threads or good advice groups for all things to do with barefoot rehab for a horse with navicular. I am already on barefoot horses uk and barefoot for navicular on FB. Apologies in advance for the length but i know context is useful.

I have decided to take my cob barefoot, he went lame last September as was diagnosed with "navicular" in his RF but after reading a lot about it on here I pushed further for an actual reason for lameness to treat and was given strained ddft and synovitis in coffin joints (again not a cause for the lameness from my understanding) so going with ddft as a cause - had shockwave therapy for the ddft, tildren and steroid injections in coffin joints. Shod in remedial shoes with a horizontal plate across the middle and had a long lay off over winter due to weather and personal reasons. He came back sound in Jan and then lockdown hit so two more months off and then since June has been in full work and competing at novice. Got his legs in a bit of a jumble at the end of my lesson on Tuesday when he was tired and pulled the shoe off the RF - he has never pulled a shoe in the 2.5 years i've owned him so i was surprised, visiting farrier put the shoe back on yesterday and told me to be careful as the foot wasn't the best so put him in overreach boots and then came down this morning to the shoe half off the foot so had to pull it off. Got another visiting farrier to take the other shoe off as no way he could put the shoe back on the dodgy foot and now he needs to grow some hoof before they can go back on, if they go back on.

I've messaged my farrier to discuss barefoot with him. We did try two winters ago and he just didn't cope at all, to the point where he wouldn't come out of his stable so I am keen to make sure I do the best for him so could really do with being pointed in the direction of some threads or really good advice. I know all horses are different but i do believe long term that barefoot would be better for him so trying it now. He is fed a token feed of TB chaff, vits and mins (won't eat powdered so went for spillers lite and lean because no added iron), boswelia and a calming powder, out in the day and in at night and has ad lib hay when in - This is exactly the same as two years ago so feed wasn't the issue back then. I ride 4-5 days a week, mostly schooling but we do try and hack (not our favourite thing!)

I can't put him on a track as I am on a livery yard and I can't add biotin to the feed as it sets his mallenders off really badly but other than that I am totally open to suggestions. Do i boot him now or see how he goes? Does he need special boots and pads given the navicular? Any help really needed as we've been doing so well and so scared I will break him! Thank you!

 

[Boulty]

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/p/key-blog-posts.html You may find this a decent place to start... maybe start with the navicular related topics & then branch out into some of the others if there's bits you want more info on. Nic's books Performance Hoof Performance Horse & Feet First are both fairly accessible & full of useful info (the first one I mentioned is the more recent of the two). The horse I used to have went to Rockley Farm for rehab (sadly I lost him last year but going there bought him quite a few years he probably wouldn't otherwise have had). If your budget would stretch to it then I'll honestly say it was the best money I've ever spent (& I'd still be saying that even if the insurance hadn't footed half the bill!) & I'd never have been able to manage that horse barefoot without the head start it gave him when he came out of shoes & a heck of a lot of follow up advice plus the brilliant trimmer I was put in touch with who still trims my current horse.

Have a good chat with your farrier & see what their thoughts are & what he suggests. You could look into trimmers that cover your area if he wasn't supportive / if you don't like the responses you get to your questions / if you wanted another opinion. I know people who use farriers & get along absolutely fine, I also know people whose farriers really weren't doing the best job for their horse (I could apply both of these statements to barefoot trimmers too though... usually if they've got a decent number of in work barefoot horses on their books that tends to be a positive indication)

I'm not aware of exact ratios of vits/minerals in the Spillers balancer you're using but I'd say ideally you want decent levels of copper & zinc, vit E thru winter when not as much in the grass & I also find adding salt & additional mag-ox helps with footiness / hoof quality. (& as you say no iron) I feel your pain with a horse who isn't keen on powdered balancers ala Forage Plus, Pro Earth etc... currently got mine on HiForm as a few friends horses have done well on it & he'll (mostly) eat it without me standing over him handfeeding it (although I still have to resort to teensy amounts of agrobs mash to hide the powder in plus chaff to hide that in). In a totally ideal world then testing the mineral profile of your hay & grazing can highlight particular deficiencies but it's rather expensive as an undertaking & uneconomical unless you've got a consistent hay supply. If struggling may be worth doing a test for sugar/starch levels in the hay though (Think Dengie do one fairly cheaply?) & bear in mind that not all hay (& grazing) suites all horses.

Obviously you want him to be comfortable & if he requires boots with pads in to do that then he needs boots & pads. No sense having him hobbling around. (although would say it would be concerning if he needed them on an arena surface). Would advise take a look thru some of what's linked to above & then watch how he's moving. (filming in slo-mo can help) If landing toe-first be very cautious about what you're doing with him work-wise & aim to work on supportive surfaces like the arena (or boots with pads in) to build up the back of his foot. Ideally you want someone in person to discuss all this with as photos / videos etc can deceive the eye depending on the angle they're taken from & the person best placed to assess the horse & what it needs is going to be the person with the horse stood in front of them (aka take anything that anyone (& that should include me as I've got no equine related qualifications, just experience of owning a few walking vets bills!) on forums like this, plus FB sites says with a pinch of salt, esp if they're trying to diagnose issues off a photo)

Oh & if he's got a sulcus split / any other signs of thrush (which however careful you've been is highly likely if been shod with a plate) Red Horse (who I swear I don't work for!) do some really good products.

Just remembered https://hoofgeek.com/blog/ also has some good free resources. Sorry that this post reads like an insomnia fuelled brainstorm... it sorta its!

 

[emfen1305]

I didn’t want this to go unreplied to as honestly this is so helpful and so grateful you took the time so I’m going to answer properly when I am on my laptop later!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I hope that your farrier will help you take your horse barefoot if he needs to. A good farrier should very helpful on this.

I see that you are on the barefoot FB pages - brave girl. You may get advised on there that you need a trimmer, not a farrier. I will pm you about that. You may have seen the state of the feet that a trimmer left my horses in, I have posted about it on here.

 

[TPO]

Boulty has covered most of it but I just wanted to second the Hoof Geek blogsite. In particular theres a blog about pads, titled along the lines of unsung heroes or superhero pictures.

 

[laura_nash]

I hope that your farrier will help you take your horse barefoot if he needs to. A good farrier should very helpful on this.

I see that you are on the barefoot FB pages - brave girl. You may get advised on there that you need a trimmer, not a farrier. I will pm you about that. You may have seen the state of the feet that a trimmer left my horses in, I have posted about it on here.

A good farrier can, yes. It was my farrier that took mine barefoot. Unfortunately when I moved I found out how rare good farriers are, and why there is an opening for trimmers. Of course not all trimmers are great either, but I don't think your experience of one poor trimmer and good farrier is more proof that a farrier is a better choice than a trimmer than the many other experiences the other way around. I do agree the barefoot FB pages can be a bit too much "you MUST do it this way".

I would be inclined to suspect that a farrier who has been working with a horse for years, and that horse has feet described as "not the best" and now navicular, may not be the best farrier to help take the horse barefoot. Especially since the OP apparently tried and rapidly failed before (presumably with their current farrier). It depends a bit if the OP wants to do it the "hard way" doing all their own research on diet, boots etc or pay the extra for a trimmer who will probably help a lot more with diet, advise, boot fitting etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I did say ‘a good farrier’. The OP may well need to change. There are certainly plenty of bad farriers out there too.

I paid the extra barefoot hype premium for a trimmer, with allegedly the gold standard barefoot trimmer qualification, and that didn’t turn out well, did it. Another HHOer has had problems with poor foot balance after poor trimming with one with the same qualification, too.

So yes, I am very leery about the world of trimmers.

ETA I’ve posted this pic before, but judicious use of boots can help a sensitive horse come out of shoes. Unfortunately, boots for turnout work better in dryer ground conditions, as mud can work its way inside them and rub, but they can be incredibly useful. This horse has issues, and has has both front coffins medicated with gel injections. The vet didn’t think she’d be able to cope without shoes.

 

[Reacher]

OP the info on this link has been posted before so apologies if you already have seen it - links to Prof Robert Bowker videos etc

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/feet-faq--articles/robert-bowker-hoof-anatomy-videos

https://thehorse.com/181721/bowker-navicular-issues-begin-earlier-than-we-think/

There are also some papers of his free to download

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1751-0813.2011.00806.x

 

[sbloom]

Here are a couple of interesting FB pages, this is an Aussie chap who I'm sure is a farrier IIRC

https://www.facebook.com/theequinedocumentalist

and this a UK farrier who has gone over almost 100% to barefoot

https://www.facebook.com/markjfarrier

I am a massive barefoot advocate, as a saddle fitter, but I am increasingly seeing at least "noise" about better shoeing options. Mark is using Duplo shoes on the small minority of horses that can't go barefoot, whether temporarily or permanently.

And I would say the better barefoot group on FB is this one, it's not run by a feed company:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BarefootApproach2WholeHorseHealth

 

[emfen1305]

Ok finally on the laptop (sound very tech-phobic when I say that but I just can't do proper posts on my phone as it's just a faff!)

Firstly thank you all (esp @Boulty) for your comments and links to things, really helpful and given me lots to read through. I am loving the Hoofgeek website and have spent a lot of time on there already reading through everything and have been reading the Rockley posts and watching the videos, I took some of my own videos to compare and he's landing flat on concrete and heel first on grass which is not great but he's not jabbing his toe at any point so I am going to invest in some boots. I am also treating him for thrush with Red Horse products and ACV, he is prone to it but has been better behind since having the shoes off when I bought him so I am hoping they will improve without the shoes.

In terms of farrier v trimmer, I have used both before and I am actually going back to the trimmer I used when I had my old horse as I felt she was very thorough and really listened to my worries and could give more all round advice on boots/feeding/workload etc that my farrier definitely won't give but i'll definitely be taking photos to keep comparing!

Going to do some more reading around feeds as well, I know I should have done this a bit earlier really but it was a bit of a quick decision!