Barefoot nutrition help...

[jnb]

I have a 6/7 yo Irish HW show cob -some of you may have seen photos. He is barefoot with white feet and I want to keep him that way!
He's ridden 4/5 times a week, I have no school so in normal circumstances I have a lesson (1 hr max) a week - usually 45 min - then hack 3-4 times a week varying from 20 min around a field I have permission to ride around to up to around 1.5 hours longer hack, village roads, tracks and bridleways. None are particularly stony or rough apart from the driveway to one of my yards, its rough but not stony.
My cob has rock hard feet and I've always fed Top Spec, he was on Comprehensive in his 2/3yo year plus Fast Fibre and salt, now he's older he's on TS Lite, 600g a day as he's 660 kg on the weighbridge & 155cm with over 10.5" of bone.
He is out 24/7 with shelter and I strip graze as I have 2 1.5 acre paddocks on hilly fairly rough ground, I do this to preserve the ground in winter but he is never on a tiny patch, I just make the field bigger & bigger then rest it by moving onto the other field across the road for 6 weeks or so. both fields are sprayed for ragwort and rested in rotation, once a year.
My question is - I know TS has a bad reputation for barefoot horses. My cob is coping brilliantly but last summer and this, I've noticed the odd little grit bit in the white line here and there, i remove and pack with Red Horse hoof stuff or field paste, I apply Kevin Bacon grease in summer only every few days.
Could I do more? What could I feed to prolong his barefootedness (Is that a word even?) He copes with the hacking on roads without a flinch, never picks over stones and seems totally happy.
Finally - my ambition is to show him in Search for a Star/ county level maybe HOYS even.
Has anyone seen any prejudice against barefoot horses in the show ring? I know Hunters must be shod but not RH, cobs or coloureds (hes CHAPS registered)
Thanks in anticipation & sorry for long post

 

[ester]

In a lot of ways if it's working there's no real need to change it.
Saying that TS would not be my preference.

Are you just feeding the TS currently? So a pellet is preferable?
If so best pellet options are equimins adv. complete or forageplus.

Can't help with the showing!

 

[SadKen]

I use Honeychop lite and healthy. My new traditional has always been barefoot and has great feet, and she doesn't really need hard feed so Honeychop is low sugar and starch, promotes chewing and carries the supplements I give (grazeezy, salt, vits/mins and a pre/probiotic). I add a cup of linseed for omegas. Foot care wise, pick 'em, scrub 'em, stuff 'em with hoof clay and that's about it for me.

There are some excellent sources out there for feeds, depends what he likes and what you need, there's a few good barefoot pages on facebook with lots of info on them. I follow the Hoof Geek, quite interesting posts and good explanations.

 

[MagicMelon]

I know many feed a "barefoot" diet but I dont, mine are barefoot (one is shod during eventing season but then barefoot rest of the time). Ive never fed mine a specific barefoot diet - I just ensure they get plenty of forage/fibre and vits etc. which I'd do anyway.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ok, enlighten me on this: what is the difference between a barefoot and shod diet?

I feed my horse the same whether he is barefoot or shod. I always feed for vit/min deficiencies in our forage, muscle support (he's in work) as well as hoof and hair health. Am I thinking to simple here?

 

[jnb]

Interesting.... I feed TS Lite as I wanted a balancer, he needs no oomph and he likes soaked feeds so I feed Fast Fibre as a carrier and he'd inhale food if given the chance so it slows him down. I feed around a tablespoon of salt split into 2 feeds, electro salts if he's sweated a lot in a lesson.
Here's a pic

 

[Shilasdair]

If your horse's feet are fine, and he's sound, then what's the problem?

Is 'barefoot' now such a weird cult that it supersedes normal horse management in terms of weight/nutrition?

My two aren't shod, they eat what they eat. One has rock hard, brilliant hooves, one has flatter soles with weaker horn. As long as the horse isn't deficient in any nutrients, macro or micro, then it's genetics and wear on the foot that matter.

 

[ester]

Ok, enlighten me on this: what is the difference between a barefoot and shod diet?

I feed my horse the same whether he is barefoot or shod. I always feed for vit/min deficiencies in our forage, muscle support (he's in work) as well as hoof and hair health. Am I thinking to simple here?

Lots of people don't

 

[Gloi]

Ok, enlighten me on this: what is the difference between a barefoot and shod diet?

I feed my horse the same whether he is barefoot or shod. I always feed for vit/min deficiencies in our forage, muscle support (he's in work) as well as hoof and hair health. Am I thinking to simple here?

A barefoot diet is good for all horses. However some people don't realise until they remove the shoes because shoeing has hidden the problems.

 

[palo1]

Sadly OP, you may have issues showing him without shoes on - I think some of the societies and shows insist on shoes for some reason though you would need to check of course. It's probably not much of an issue this year...!!

 

[PurBee]

You say youre noticing grit getting in the white line - so is that 2mm tiny pieces and very small white line separation or more like 5mm+ pieces getting lodged deep up there?

I had white line issues with mine. There‘s many reasons for it weakening. Mechanical - walls slightly too long in a bf horse so will ‘splay’ the horn weakening at the white line. BUT....this flaring is caused by a weaker horn anyway, due to enviroment being too wet or nutritional. The horn tubules should grow and compress into oneanother, as the wall grows to make a hard dense wall. If we come along and trim very regularly to prevent excess hoof wall, we don’t give the horn cells the opportunity to compress, and we end up on this frustrating cycle of weak hoof walls and white line issues.
This is why shoeing in one way helps hoof wall density, as the shoe placement puts pressure on the hoof wall with every step the horse takes, to help those wall tubules compress.
The shoe, inadvertently acts like ‘excess wall’, and due to being steel wont flare, yet puts pressure on the bottom of the hoof wall.


Horse in too wet conditions for many hrs per day - softening of sole, horn and white line area due to excess moisture. Bacterial - pathogenic eating away at white line causing ingress of grit to be easier, treat with anti-bac/ copper sulphate. Or nutritional - youd find the horn, sole growth to be slow, weak etc.

I thought mine was due to too wet conditions, being in ireland!....but when in much drier conditions, esp. over winter white line issues continued. So i sprayed for pathogens. i adjusted minerals to include more copper, zinc, magnesium, omega 3.
This really helped. I stopped trimming every 3 weeks, over winter, and allowed excess hoof wall always of 5mm, my rasps felt the difference in hoof wall density, compared to previous phase of trimming regularly to prevent excess hoof wall height, and rasping to sole plane.

The misconception in the bf world is to never allow excess wall height, rasp wall to sole plane, which i now believe, due to my experiences, to be a fallacy and actually detrimental to the strength and integrity of the hoof wall. Only a few bf trimmers online suggested this way of trimming, to always allow a 5mm excess. Now i know why.

The sole of the hoof gets so hard due to the cells being compressed with every step the horse takes, if the hoof gets packed with sand/mud. The wall cells that grow in a downward direction need the same pressure to become hard, and densely packed, and wont get that pressure if we come along every 2,3 weeks and rasp off excess to sole plane. The result of this regular trimming is weak walls, and white line issues follow!

If i hadnt threw my hands up in despair at my white line issues and decided to just leave their feet alone for 8/12 weeks over winter, i would never have discovered that my regular trimming weakened the wall and actually caused white line issues!
Rasping them was easy before, when regular trimming, now with less regular trims, the walls are much harder to rasp down...ive won the white line battle, with intentional trimming ‘neglect’!

 

[jnb]

I've notice in total. a tiny 1-2mm bit of grit, twice. So literally a tiny speck.
Reason for my question was, I have seen a lot of people saying TS is bad for barefoot horses and I wondered if I could do better for him, is all.
In answer to the comment about whether i can show barefoot - I have checked with both BSHA and CHAPS, both accept barefoot horses as he is not a Hunter. Hunters must be shown shod all round, as must RoR, I believe. I just wondered if anyone had come across prejudice/been dropped by judges for it?

 

[ycbm]

As long as the horse isn't deficient in any nutrients, macro or micro, then it's genetics and wear on the foot that matter.

This isn't true, sorry. A horse can be on a bad diet but still have all the macro and micro nutrients it needs. Most of the commercial molassed mixes would fall into that category, and also prevent a significant number of horses from working barefoot.

.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Swan antibac is great for white line and thrush problems and if you need a bit of protection on the hoof sometimes I use hoof amour in the summer months, it really helps with hard or stony ground, it lasts about 5 weeks depending on how much riding you do and it's easy to apply yourself.

I used to ride show cobs years ago but cannot remember if shoeing is necessary or not for the life of me, I have Arabs now and I know they can be shown bare foot at AHS shows.

Edited to add hoof amour can help with thrush and white line issues as it covers and seals the foot so helps prevent dirt getting in.

 

[be positive]

I don't think being barefoot will have a negative impact on the judges but you may find ground conditions have an impact on how well he can perform and the ride he gives the judge, most shows are on grass and the rings not that big so there is a real risk of slipping, it is why hunters must be shod as one came down with a judge on and he was seriously injured, asking for a decent extension coming off a corner and being able to collect before the next is a skill in itself and if the judge is being cautious because he knows the ground is a bit slippy, your horse is not shod so not wearing studs, then they may ride with the handbrake on, and so might you in the initial go round.

I have a Dales here that is not shod who took a really heavy fall one day when his feet went from under him, luckily no harm done but his confidence was knocked for some time.

If you are going to show him spend plenty of time schooling on grass so he learns to balance himself in various ground conditions.

 

[paddy555]

Reason for my question was, I have seen a lot of people saying TS is bad for barefoot horses and I wondered if I could do better for him, is all.

mine all have equimins advanced complete powder as I like to put it in a wet feed along with salt and magox. I didn't find TS did much for mine (many years ago now) and to some extent seemed to made him sore, All of ours have good hooves and good growth with the advanced complete. I originally changed from TS to equimins hoof mender for one horse who simply wouldn't grow hoof. After a very short time he not only grew hoof but I had to trim him which was unheard of. I then switched to the advanced complete with just as good results and now they all have it. Being a bit mean I stopped it last summer for one old horse who was out at grass. His hooves deteriorated. He is now back on it, feet have improved and I shall be carrying on with it all summer this year.

 

[jnb]

Thanks for replies, food for thought! I think as I feed Fast Fibre I will try the powder.
Is there an issue with Fast Fibre for a barefoot diet? I currently feed Feedmark Hardy Hoof (I forgot to say that!), it made a huge difference to my old cob who had dreadful feet. Thoughts?

 

[ester]

no FF is fine.

 

[TPO]

Fast Fibre is a "no no" with some people as it contains Nutritionally Improved Straw (straw treated with caustic acid iirc) along with oat feed ("floor sweepings" in some people's opinion).

Some people suggest unmolassed beet, sometimes recommended to sieve and rinse after soaking, and others are very against it claiming that it disrupts the hind gut.

Some people feed Pink Mash and others are very against it because soya is the main ingredient.

Basically if you ask ten people for their opinion you'll get at least 15 conflicting options!

Having said that I'm personally not a fan of TS feeds. I have previously used one of their chaffs and the ulcer cubes.

The difference, as such, with a "barefoot diet" is that once the shoes are off hooves are often the initial indicators of any issues and a lot of issues are diet related. We can often "get away" with more in a shod horse because shoes can act as a giant sticking plaster to mask underlying problems.

Regarding vit/mineral supplements/balancers the most commonly recommended ones seem to be:
Equimmins Advance (powder or pellets)
Progressive Earth (Pro Hoof or Pro Balance)
Forage Plus

I dont know the ingredients or analysis of the Hardy Hoof but some clever people on here have made spreadsheets comparing supplements against requirements and cost. I'm not sure how to find them but someone else might be able to link to the original thread

 

[SpeedyPony]

My boy gets seaweed and rosehips added to his feed (just chaff in summer, fibre cubes in winter), which seems to work pretty well for him. He has decent feet anyway though, so it might be more luck than good feed!

 

[ycbm]

Go careful with seaweed, it is reckoned to have high iron levels and most grazing is already too high iron.

.

 

[ester]

They have taken the garlic out of FF though TPO

frank still gets his agrobs, regardless, because he is fussy and old enough to have his whims met