Barefoot - nutrition, nutrition, nutrition and WORK

cptrayes said:
Copper is stored in the liver and variations from one day to the next will be evened out by using that store. As you say, you need someone to tell you the safe maximum dose. I am feeding the equivalent of a 1/2 dose of Copper Trition, so I can't help you there I'm afraid.
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May I ask if giving a bolus/syringe of chelated copper is effective in horses then? Locally they give it to cattle and sheep though my land isn't short (5.5ppm) some of the bought in hay appears to be.
Hay is my main and for some of my horses only forage. I'm not intending to stuff them with copper btw. just for reference so I can store away in case needed in the future.
 
I dont think it would be safe to use a bolus designed for an animal with 4 stomachs and a twice-chewed digestive system on a single stomach single chew animal without expert advice.

Not seen Pink Powder Lucy, interesting if so!
 
CP pink powder lists the quantities as

Trace Elements: Iron 4400 mg/kg
Zinc 4400 mg/kg
Copper 3150 mg/kg
Manganese 1450 mg/kg
Magnesium 1025 mg/kg
Cobalt 37 mg/kg
Iodine 22 mg/kg
Selenium 2.9 mg/kg

of course it has iron as well so not so helpful

Coppertrition is

Copper100mg
Zinc10mg
Manganese5mg
Vitamin E2,000iu
Vitamin B612mg
Vitamin B1248mcg
Folic Acid50mg
Selenium1.25mg
 
A bolus works for ruminants because it will be held in a stomach compartment - the bolus is a relatively large sort of 'pill' that will be broken down slowly. You get wormer versions of them too. Ruminants have a sort of seive-like aperture between two of their stomach compartments, which only allows particles of a certain size through, so the bolus has to get very small before it's washed through. Horses don't have such an orifice, so the bolus would just go straight through their system and out the other end, probably pretty much untouched.
 
LucyPriory said:
CP pink powder lists the quantities as

Trace Elements: Iron 4400 mg/kg
Zinc 4400 mg/kg
Copper 3150 mg/kg
Manganese 1450 mg/kg
Magnesium 1025 mg/kg
Cobalt 37 mg/kg
Iodine 22 mg/kg
Selenium 2.9 mg/kg

of course it has iron as well so not so helpful

Coppertrition is

Copper100mg
Zinc10mg
Manganese5mg
Vitamin E2,000iu
Vitamin B612mg
Vitamin B1248mcg
Folic Acid50mg
Selenium1.25mg
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Yes! Take the iron out and it will work :) A magnet maybe!!!!

But no use if you are supplementing copper due to high iron or manganese levels, unfortunately. Bet it's cheaper!

Incidentally I have been researching zinc, because the recommendation when supplementing copper has been also to supplement zinc. But according to my research practically everything that we feed horses is already VERY high in zinc, so supplementation of that appears to be pointless.

Solo that's fascinating, I never knew that about cow stomachs!
 
You should see these needle filled boluses!

They are gelatin capsules about 4 inches long and an inch and a half wide. Usually brightly coloured...not that Mr or Mrs Cow cares!

Don't fancy having that popped down my throat, or anywhere else. :)
 
I could get really nerdy now, and say that the digestive system structure is why equids do very well in harsh environments with very little to eat, whereas ruminants don't. There are very many more species of ruminant than there are 'hind gut fermenters', because they are very efficient at using small parts of productive environments - their digestive system extracts lots of useful things from plant material that is easy to digest, but if they have to eat old, dry stems, they can't break them down quickly enough into bits that can pass through the reticulo-omasal orifice, and so they starve. Hind gut fermenters in the same situation can just up their intake - they are less 'efficient' but can process more and so survive.
So although there is discussion about whether cows should have the kinds of enriched grazing that we don't want for our horses, they will always need better than the rough stuff we do want.
 
Well blow me down. And I always thought that sheep and cows would do better because they have more stomach chambers. You learn something new every day! Are you a biologist Solo, or a farmer :) ??
 
Interesting. I think that the reason barefoot didn't work for us was that we only go out on roads and tracks ( different terrains) once a week so I never could really condition her feet or get them them to grow more quickly with more work after 8 months. I followed the barefoot diet, put a laid of pea gravel down in her field, restricted grass in take. She started to hate going out (and this mare loves hacking out!) Hoof boots didn't help as they rubbed, came off despite spending hundreds of pounds on getting the right fit and it gave me no end of worry so front shoes went back on and she is happy again.

Can't say I am overly happy as I really wanted her barefoot but it just wasn't sustainable for our circumstances as WORK is the one thing I couldn't really do with her.
 
Jericho you are a great example of the owner who should shoe. It's a shame for you that you couldn't make it work, but some horses just need absolutely everything perfect and can't manage boots, and you happen to own one. I hope you love her in spite of her metal bits :)
 
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