Barefoot on hinds - feed issue

[MuddyTB]

Hi all,

I'm wanting some opinions from those experienced in barefoot whether I can make it work for my horse. He's a 17 year old TB and always been shod. His back feet in particular struggle to hold shoes in summer. I took his backs off 5 weeks ago as he's had a bit of a break with sore back/SI and he's sound in the field and on smooth tarmac. He's doing really well and I'd like to keep them off if possible to see if it helps his hock arthritis and back.

Here's the bit I'm worried about. He is fed grass chop, linseed and a few oats BUT is on Top Spec balancer. I know this has molasses etc in and is not ideal, but I tried switching to Equimins previously and he ate it for a while then refused to touch it. I think he would be the same with other, similar powder supplements due to smell and strong taste, (is picky about joint supplement and won't eat anything from vet etc). I figured giving the TopSpec he at least gets biotin and a reasonable level of other stuff daily, where as refusing to eat the powders means nothing on many days. If you put even the slightest bit in he knows and doesn't eat.

So is it possible to make it work without the best vits/mins? Would you try or is it just not for us given his diet?
For now i'm only thinking of hinds off if that makes a difference.

 

[ester]

It is definitely possible to make it work without the best vits and mins, or any at all!, plenty do. But of all of them I would avoid topspec more than the other big brands of pelleted balancers (though as you say you know he will eat it, and there is nothing more annoying then spending ££ for left balancer!) and as you say, he seems to be doing ok at the moment which is good going.

My own (native) was very picky to start but for him feeding him agrobs has been a revelation with regards to getting him to eat other things. He went through a phase (pre agrobs but I was feeding D+H just grass instead) when he started leaving the equimins pellets but was ok with the powder. And it has always astounded me that he doesn't worry about the boswellia!

 

[MuddyTB]

Thanks ester. I'm really tempted to give it a go with some boots initially for stones or rougher ground. I'm just starting to ride him again so hoping to get further afield and that will mean more uneven ground which he wouldn't handle at the mo.

I shall look at agrobs definitely. Bizarrely when I tried him on turmeric he ate that, a bit like the boswellia in strong taste/smell...there's no explaining it!

 

[ester]

I tried the boswellia because I thought no chance of F eating turmeric but he probably would!

definitely look into some boots at least. Frank was lame so we had to do a slow rehab so by 6 weeks we were doing about 20 mins walking a day but he went sore at that point and had very flat soles so he was booted in front for any non grass work for the next 6 months and then used them intermittently on particularly bad terrain etc.

For boot buying get a tape measure and take photos of width and length and send to any of our nice boot shops . hoofbootique, urban horse, the saddlery shop, cannock chase, equine podiatry supplies. Hinds can be a little trickier, partly because horses seem more likely to twist a hind foot so that is worth knowing before making contact too.

I will also say I think with all newly deshod horses it is probably best to assume some thrush, F's never seem thrush but his frogs are always much better if treated with red horse sole cleanse a couple of times a week.

I'm not very au fait with the more commercial balancers, I do think the spillers one has no iron added so that is an immediate plus!

 

[supsup]

I think that quite often, too much emphasis is put on the small details of the diet, losing sight of the bigger picture. Unless your horse is particularly sugar sensitive (and if he's not shown any particular problems with grass chop or oats, then that's not too likely), the small amount of e.g. molasses in the balancer is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Most of his calories still come from forage, and if you had one of those sensitive candidates, even going molasses free with the bucket feed might be just a drop in the ocean, unless the forage is suitable (low sugar/starch) as well, and that you won't know unless you test. So, keep the bigger picture in mind, and unless you have good cause to suspect a particular ingredient is causing problems, keep the amounts and overall diet in perspective.

That said, one thing I would check on the white label of the Top Spec bag is whether it contains any added iron. If you have hoof quality issues, supplementing a decent dose of copper and zinc might be helpful, and copper uptake can be blocked by too much iron. If you can't use one of the powdered supplements because he won't eat them, at least you could try and pick a pelleted balancer that doesn't have added iron. I know that Spillers revised their line of balancers a few months ago and is now leaving out the iron from most of them. I don't know if Top Spec has done the same (or other brands). I would do a good comparison between brands and opt for the one that has the highest amounts of copper/zinc per dose, no added iron, and (if you like) the highest amount of biotin and joint support ingredients, so that you won't have to supplement those extra. The super-duper vit&min supplements would only make a difference (vs. pelleted balancer) if he was really deficient in some of the ingredients that they supply more of. Unless you have your forage tested or have some clear symptoms of deficiency (pretty rare), you simply won't know if they'd be worth the extra effort, and it would be trial and error anyway.
So, I'd just see how you get on, maybe swap for a different pelleted balancer (and get a taste sample before you swap) if a different brand looks like a better match.

Aside from the diet question, I'd keep a close eye on how his back/SI issues develop. Back pain and hind limb lameness often go hand in hand (not always clear which one came first). If it looks like he is sore on his hind feet at any time, I'd have a think about how to get him back to comfort sooner rather than later (whether that's shoes or boots or whatever). Otherwise you risk that the hoof discomfort makes the back worse. On the flip side, it's also possible that the existing back problems make it that much harder for his hind hooves to adapt to barefoot (if he's not loading them properly).

 

[MuddyTB]

I'll check some different balancers. I did look at the horse and pony direct one, but it seemed to have less of most vits/mins in. I haven't checked any others though.

Luckily I'm rehabbing him slowly for his back so I thought the timing may work well to rehab his feet too.

I'd seen the scoot boots on urban horse that looked good, especially the slim ones designed for hind feet. He does twist on his backs though with his hocks so will ask for advice from them.

Will look into some hoof cleanse too, for when the snow goes at least.

Thanks for all the info, really useful

 

[MuddyTB]

Aside from the diet question, I'd keep a close eye on how his back/SI issues develop. Back pain and hind limb lameness often go hand in hand (not always clear which one came first). If it looks like he is sore on his hind feet at any time, I'd have a think about how to get him back to comfort sooner rather than later (whether that's shoes or boots or whatever). Otherwise you risk that the hoof discomfort makes the back worse. On the flip side, it's also possible that the existing back problems make it that much harder for his hind hooves to adapt to barefoot (if he's not loading them properly).

Couldn't agree more. We are fairly sure the hock arthritis causes the lumbar back pain. The SI thing came on very suddenly and we suspect he may have strained it in the field. The rest has improved both and that was with shoes off, hence me thinking maybe that could help longer term. If he gets foot sore though I would definitely re-evaluate.

Thanks for all the advice.