Barefoot peeps - crack in hoof question

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goldypops

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I bought my gelding as a 3 year old and he had a crack in one of his back hooves which we hoped would grow out and was due to his last owner not having his feet trimmed regularly. He is now just turned 5 but the crack is still there. During the summer when the ground is dry it nearly grows out but then as soon as the ground gets wet it opens up and the dirt gets into it and it spreads up his hoof again (about 1"). He is trimmed every 8 weeks and I have discussed this with my farrier who says that the only way to possibly get rid of it is to shoe him to hold the crack together and hopefully it will grow out and the new horn behind wont split.
My dilemmas are:
1) if he has shoes on how easy is it to make the transition back to barefoot. It seems such a shame as he has really good feet otherwise and is fine on most surfaces. I am intending to start doing some endurance with him next year and would like to keep him barefoot.
2) If we shoe him can he just be shod behind and still worked? or do you need all 4 shoes on. My other mare just has shoes on her fronts but I have never known of just shoeing behind!
3) shall I just have shoes behind and turn him away for the winter and hope that by spring its grown out
4) is there another solution???
any advice gratefully recieved!!!
 
I'm not convinced the crack needs holding together as your farrier suggests.

I'd be more inclined to think he needs a diet high in minerals (in order to grow the best quality hoof possible) and for the hoof to be kept clean and allowed to be stimulated via the ground to grow quickly and harden.

A shoe would make it more difficult to keep clean and slow the growth rate of the hoof right down.
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/toe-cracks-and-excess-of-acronyms.html

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/hoof-cracks-update.html
 
I took my horse's shoes off and a floor to coronet crack in a hind hoof grew out from the day his shoes were off.

I also had a two year old who was shod to stop his feet cracking and they just got worse and worse and he ended up with remedial shoeing and then with having them screwed together with bars of steel.

Shoeing is not the answer.

Check his diet - high fibre, low sugar, yeast, extra magnesium, additional minerals if he needs them (copper most often missing or unabsorbed due to high iron/manganese). Disinfect the crack every single day with hydrogen peroxide. I would also recommend aqueous cream daily to stop the cycle of wet/dry/wet/dry that you get in winter. One of my horses has a hairline surface crack which gets worse in dry weather but is better if I use aqueous cream like you would hoof oil. It's sold cheap in Lloyds chemists and Superdrug.
 
following with interest as my 2yro has a sand crack in rear hoof for same reason and farrier has raised possibility of holding together with shoes eventually, which am a bit gutted about as would prefer not to go there if poss..
so no advice sorry as am in the same boat but very interested to see what others think!
 
Thanks for the replies. He is out 24/7 and strip grazed as good doer. Has a small feed of happy hoof, unmolassed sugar beet and calmag. Shall I add an all round vit/min supplement to this??? and Oberon how do I keep his hoof clean during the winter in the field??? He does do mostly road work to stimulate hoof growth and I could bring him onto the yard for a few hours each day when he isnt ridden, would that help???
 
"good doer" is very opften synonymous with "doesn't grow the greatest quality feet when he eats grass". If you can, keep him off grass during mid-morning to evening daylight hours next summer.

My guess is that what is happening is that the spring grass causes poor quality foot growth. At the beginning of the winter this growth reaches the floor and splits. It only splits up as far as where he has hoof growing that was produced in the autumn/winter when the grass quality was poor. This would explain totally why it is not there in summer (because the growth on the bottom half of the foot was produced in the winter and is better quality) and cracks again in the spring.

If you cannot afford a forage analysis of your grazing, then supplement 100milligrams of copper a day, which is a safe dose whether or not he is copper deficient. This has worked well for my own and my friend's horses in reducing their sensitivity to the grass. Copper is used for insulin regulation and poor insulin regulation, usually found in good doers, causes foot quality issue.

I would definitely add yeast, either yea-sacc or brewers yeast, which has a double anti-inflammatory effect on the gut. Two of my horses go laminitic without yeast and are fine when they have it, as I found out to my cost this summer when I could not get a supply of brewers yeast that they would eat.

ps thanks Bruce :)
 
brucea said:
*wanders in*

Hello CP, hello Oberon. :)

Goldipops, you're in good hands with them!

*wanders back out*
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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
stuckup.gif
 
goldypops said:
Thanks for the replies. He is out 24/7 and strip grazed as good doer. Has a small feed of happy hoof, unmolassed sugar beet and calmag. Shall I add an all round vit/min supplement to this??? and Oberon how do I keep his hoof clean during the winter in the field??? He does do mostly road work to stimulate hoof growth and I could bring him onto the yard for a few hours each day when he isnt ridden, would that help???
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I'm not a HappyHoof fan. I used it for years and found lots of improvements when I stopped feeding it. There's not enough 'good' in it and too much not 'good' to justify buying it (IMO).

The unmollassed beet is fine, calmag is fine - but yes, he'll need more minerals as that is what is generally found lacking in our forage.

I've been amazed by what a difference mineral balancing has made to my own horse (the only one who's agreed to come in for feeds so far
lol.gif
) but if you don't have the ability to get a forage analysis, then there is a supplement just out that can help
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-...r_Equipment&hash=item415c6b4240#ht_1466wt_905

Regarding keeping clean, I like Red Horse products.

My younger (as in, not ancient
wink.gif
) horse is prone to infections to an indentation he has in his toes. I scrub/syringe with Hibiscrub and then smother with Artimud or Field Paste every other day or so.

It's easy for me as I don't have night turnout in winter, so I can do it when he comes in.
I am anxious to see how he fares this year with the balanced minerals I have now - I wonder if he will be more resistant to infection with all that lovely zinc I'll be giving him?
 
Thank you for the replies. So basically look at his diet and keeping the foot clean with the view that it may take a year to resolve the problem but not worry unduely about doing anything else remedial in the short term???
Oberon, can you recommend a chaff that will be better than the Happy hoof? It also needs to feed a laminitic prone 10hh and a 16hh cushings mare!!
The yeast by the sound of it would benefit all 3!!!
Cptrayes - presumably if i feed a supplement like the one oberon has suggested then i wont need to feed extra copper? and is there a palatibility problem between different brewers yeast as my mare can be fussy about things added to her feeds!!!
Will look at the red house products - i could bring him onto the yard and give it a clean then let him mooch about on there for a bit especially when it is wet.
 
Is it possible for you to fill the crack with putty? My mare has a tiny hole/crack in the toe of her hoof and i have been using silvetrasol to clean it out and 'Hoof Stuff' to fill the hole to allow it to heal and stay clean, every 2-3 days...its working though the hole is getting smaller but its a slow progess!
 
i have gone with a bare foot trimmer who is sorting our cracks and shaping issues due to my boy being thrown in field and left by ex-owner, i find them brill and the last thing they want to do is shoe any horse, at present trimmer is coming out every 4 weeks to sort the feet out little by little and starting to look great now.

remember though to do your homework if you go this route ask about experiance/how long been working etc..
 
largely agree with all of the above.

some 15 years ago when my very ex farrier suggested shoeing my then 2 year old with shoes and pads...... I started hand walking her instead (on quiet lanes as much as possible).

Not only did she grow great foot, she also became really good out and about which stood her in good stead as an adult.

Diet is critical and it breaks my heart when I see the number of youngsters (under 4) with all the signs of LGL and their owners none the wiser.

IME and a very personal opinion; Happy Hoof and all it's cousins are little more than a triumph of marketing over common sense.
 
I'll list what I feed for comparison.

Haylage/Grass

Fast Fibre
Speedibeet
Vit E capsules (1000iu x 2 squeezed out into feed)
25g salt
8g magnesium
9ml copper
8ml zinc
20mg biotin
15g Yea-sacc
100mg linseed
10g lysine
100g oats
Handful of assorted herbs.

This is based on Obi's special needs (25 year old with dodgy teeth) and analysis of our forage.

Adding minerals to the feed blindly is counter productive and possibly dangerous, although (as CPTrayes suggests) the low dose of copper can be considered safe.

That's why the seller has brought out the supplement I suggested, for people without an analysis but wish to try adding minerals in more theraputic doses than other supplements.

The Fast Fibre is the best thing for me to use as a base as it's nice and sloppy for him, palatable and easy to get hold of. It doesn't contain anything that messes up the balance, so it doesn't detract anything from the diet.

What I recommend is staying away from alfalfa and mollasses - it's tough to find such a product as the equestrian market is flooded with them.
 
LucyPriory said:
Diet is critical .
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I strongly agree with this. I have seen how reducing sugars dramatically by withdrawing grass and soaking hay has affected all my horses but one that had developed cracks (again) has changed the most. The bad cracks have healed and grown out with only three trims in six months. Do not underestimate how little sugar some horses can tolerate even if they are not overtly laminitic.

I now am convinced less is more with diet and any horse having hoof problems should have diet stripped back to real basics and then add minerals as required.
 
goldypops said:
Oberon - Fast Fibre has added vits and mins in it, so does what you give balance with whats in the ff?
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the sentance?

The Fast Fibre does have added vits and minerals, but we are kind of ignoring them as they aren't at a level to be theraputic enough for me.

The balance sheet was written up with Fast Fibre's ingredients and nutritional info in mind and the minerals I've added have been done so in accordance with the FF, Speedibeet, Oats and Linseed.

Does that make any sense?
 
I think you should seriously consider forage analysis. If you can afford shoes (but don't want to) its affordable in my opinion. :)
 
Thanks Oberon - answered my question, perfect sense!
Naturally - yes I could have forage analysis done but the field they are in for the winter is the hay field (cut june) and its really old meadow type full of a multitude of different plants and grasses and varies widely across the field, great for them foraging for what they need. I dont think a sample would give a true reflection of the analysis of what they are eating and what they could eat!
The field they are in spring/summer is more uniform grass so I could get that analysed I suppose. But then there needs would surely change every 6 months depending on which field they are in????
 
goldypops said:
Thanks Oberon - answered my question, perfect sense!
Naturally - yes I could have forage analysis done but the field they are in for the winter is the hay field (cut june) and its really old meadow type full of a multitude of different plants and grasses and varies widely across the field, great for them foraging for what they need. I dont think a sample would give a true reflection of the analysis of what they are eating and what they could eat!
The field they are in spring/summer is more uniform grass so I could get that analysed I suppose. But then there needs would surely change every 6 months depending on which field they are in????
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Sounds ideal in terms of species diversity, how lucky of you to have access to such a pasture, they are a dying breed! :D If it is used for the yard hay as well as grazing, I would get it analysed, because a) two birds with one stone, and b) in selecting your sample you take a little bit from a lot of different locations across the field (or throughout the bales), and mix it all together, so you should end up with an over all sample. Unless they have unlimited grazing on there they won't be able to really select well from it, although obviously they'll have their favourites and you will probably be able to see patches of untouched stuff and longer stalks.

Ideally I'd get the spring/summer one done too, but to spread the cost and give yourself time to learn about the process I'd just do the winter one for now.

Sarah Braitwaite of Forage plus is really friendly and completely un-pushy if you want to ring or email her to have a chat about the whole thing :)
 
goldypops said:
Thanks Oberon - answered my question, perfect sense!
Naturally - yes I could have forage analysis done but the field they are in for the winter is the hay field (cut june) and its really old meadow type full of a multitude of different plants and grasses and varies widely across the field, great for them foraging for what they need. I dont think a sample would give a true reflection of the analysis of what they are eating and what they could eat!
The field they are in spring/summer is more uniform grass so I could get that analysed I suppose. But then there needs would surely change every 6 months depending on which field they are in????
Click to expand...

I had mine done from our haylage, last winter. It's not the field they graze in, but it's part of the land.

I'm not an expert on them, but you can ask more on UKNHCP forum as there are peeps who know more than I.
 
What about calcium? I remember reading somewhere that horses with cracks and brittle hooves benefited by making calcium more available (alfalfa?) as it improves connective tissue adhesion all over the body but improves in the hoof too... I suppose calcium is high already in grass, but no-one seems to supplement this in addition to mag, copper etc...

Just wondered...
 
Naturally - yes the hay is from that field and its gorgeous stuff!!! i did have it analysed last year but just a basic analysis not including mineral content as i was interested in the sugar content as my mare developed cushings. I will contact forage plus a call and discuss with Sarah, thanks for that.
 
tallyho! said:
What about calcium? I remember reading somewhere that horses with cracks and brittle hooves benefited by making calcium more available (alfalfa?) as it improves connective tissue adhesion all over the body but improves in the hoof too... I suppose calcium is high already in grass, but no-one seems to supplement this in addition to mag, copper etc...

Just wondered...
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Speaking for myself, my forage is 200% calcium NRC and 200% phosphorous NRC. I have plenty of calcium - too much in fact and that's one of the reasons I have to feed magnesium. It's not that my forage is low in magnesium, but all that calcium blocks absorption, so I have to add more.

An interesting fact is that horses rarely get enough sodium, even for maintenance level, let alone work. Low sodium also causes low potassium.
Sodium also improves absorption of both calcium and phosphorous.

Chloride too - it is believed that horses can 'run out' of chloride after two hours of exercise without adequate supplementation - causing fatigue and loss of performance.

So if you want them to have enough calcium, phosphorous, potassium, sodium and chloride - feed them good old salt! 25g a day at maintenance levels plus free access to a pure salt lick and more if working. ;)
 
Oberon said:
Speaking for myself, my forage is 200% calcium NRC and 200% phosphorous NRC. I have plenty of calcium - too much in fact and that's one of the reasons I have to feed magnesium. It's not that my forage is low in magnesium, but all that calcium blocks absorption, so I have to add more.

An interesting fact is that horses rarely get enough sodium, even for maintenance level, let alone work. Low sodium also causes low potassium.
Sodium also improves absorption of both calcium and phosphorous.

Chloride too - it is believed that horses can 'run out' of chloride after two hours of exercise without adequate supplementation - causing fatigue and loss of performance.

So if you want them to have enough calcium, phosphorous, potassium, sodium and chloride - feed them good old salt! 25g a day at maintenance levels plus free access to a pure salt lick and more if working. ;)
Click to expand...

Interesting and slightly OT - I have read that salt also helps to lower potassium through increased drinking / urination if potassium has spiked high (which has been linked to head shaking, and increased salt intake certainy helped the HSer I knew)
 
Goldypops you need to get it trimmed at least every four weeks this then stops any wall flare opening it up again.

I'm currently going through this at the moment with my 3yr old and it is slowly working. Ask the farrier to show you how to rasp the foot back to prevent the crack from opening again. If you work on it you could trim the foot weekly and really keep on top of it.

Fantasias has already grown down 5mm and has just had the second really hard trim.
 
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