Barefoot + pigeon toed...

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stormclouds

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Hi all,

Was after some opinions. Bought a new horse about 3/4 months ago, very lovely NF gelding, 7 years old. Incredibly overweight (but no lami), and is now looking much better.

During the vetting, the vet (who I really did not rate at all) said that he was slightly pigeon toed on one leg, and that it would be easily manageable (3 sets of shoes/trims later, can't tell it's there) unless I went barefoot, which she recommended against.

Ideally, I'd like to take his shoes off, but will this make the pigeon toe too unmanageable, or is it just down to regular/good trimming?
 
The problem with correcting leg deviations in an adult horse is that you put strain on the joints. So the leg will look straighter, but it's not necessarily the best thing for long term soundness. If you take the horse BF, I wouldn't be surprised if the pigeon toe came back, but it isn't really a disaster. There is a proviso though - if the leg is actually straight and the 'pigeon toe' was actually from bad trimming then you don't want it back.

I have one with a slight leg deviation and I have strict instructions from my current (brilliant) farrier that if I ever move away, I mustn't let anyone try to improve his leg via trimming or shoeing. The horse is BF at the moment and is a tough, sound chap.
 
I would have thought it would be easier to manage with a GOOD trimmer, maybe that vet had come across some who weren't so great. I have seen trimmers take more care over balancing the foot than most farriers would do.
 
I took a pigeon toed horse BF .
It did help us to correct his poor lateral foot balance which was monitored with X-rays however it was a shoeing with a small lateral extension that brought him sound to work and kept him in work he was PTS for another issue so really did not have a decade to to see where we would have come out in the long run .
 
stormclouds said:
Hi all,

Was after some opinions. Bought a new horse about 3/4 months ago, very lovely NF gelding, 7 years old. Incredibly overweight (but no lami), and is now looking much better.

During the vetting, the vet (who I really did not rate at all) said that he was slightly pigeon toed on one leg, and that it would be easily manageable (3 sets of shoes/trims later, can't tell it's there) unless I went barefoot, which she recommended against.

Ideally, I'd like to take his shoes off, but will this make the pigeon toe too unmanageable, or is it just down to regular/good trimming?
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easily manageable for who? the human who has to look at it for the horse who has to live with it.
I would be looking at why the horse was pigeon toed and that would start much higher up in the body. I wouldn't be calling a farrier but a chiro, physio etc

I tried to correct this sort of problem with shoeing. The legs and feet looked wonderful to start with then the horse could no longer stand the corrections and I had to take the shoes off again. He was immediately happier.
 
Thanks Faracat. I wouldn't be surprised if it was from bad trimming - his feet were shocking on arrival. This might sound really numptyish - how would you know whether it's a leg deviation or from trimming?

It was very slight when I bought him, he's been sound all his life, and I'm not into showing so from an aesthetic point of view I'm not too bothered how it looks, as long as it's the best for him.

Glad it's doable though, will have a chat to my farrier when I see him next
 
paddy555 - yeah I'm not that bothered what it looks like, as long as the leg does the job. I'd rather he was barefoot, but if he'll struggle with soundness without shoes then that's something to consider.

I was just wondering whether it is possible, or if the vet was right
 
Not exactly the same, but my boy has a (very scientific) wonky leg. It isn't really obvious except on xray. Since I have taken his shoes off, he has grown lateral extensions on the hoof which I believe are there to help the balance of his leg. He seems happy with the arrangement! :)
 
That's good to know Sheep - guess it's just whatever suits the horse best!

He has always been shod (though not brilliantly up until I got him), and has always been sound, so guess I'll see soon enough whether the corrections have affected him negatively.

Had physio out a while back, who just said he's got a twisted pelvis. Wasn't too impressed with her (McTimoney) so will be getting my usual physio out to take a look.
 
With my boy, if you look carefully at his legs from the front, the deviation starts at the knee (google 'horse conformation bench knee') so the cannon bone looks slightly wrongly attached to the knee when compared with his other leg. Many people can't see it, but once you've noticed it, it's easy to spot. So really, you need to have a very close look at his leg conformation. There is a strong argument to 'let the horse grow the hoof it needs.' If you look at the Rockley Farm blog and search for 'hoof deviations,' there are some interesting thoughts on the matter.
 
stormclouds said:
paddy555 - yeah I'm not that bothered what it looks like, as long as the leg does the job. I'd rather he was barefoot, but if he'll struggle with soundness without shoes then that's something to consider.

I was just wondering whether it is possible, or if the vet was right
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if the pigeon toes were the only doubt I would go for barefoot without any hesitation. The vet is right the pigeon toe will still be there etc and the vet may not like the deviations the horse produces to deal with it's problems but the horse will be fine.
Don't forget that if you try barefoot then you can always put shoes back on again at a moment's notice. I would second reading the Rockely blog.
If you decide to try barefoot I wouldn't trim when the shoes come off, just gently rasp around the edges and let the horse see what he wants. Overtrimming, or trimming to try and correct things that the horse actually needs causes more problems.
 
My daughter's pony has got funny wee legs. When I bought her she was shod because "the vet told them he wanted her to have higher heels" whatever that means. She had normal shoes.

Anyway she lost a shoe and she was crippled. Nothing to do with her confo and everything to do with being a fat pudding.

I took the shoes off over winter and she was mainly in the field. She's been barefoot all summer now and is going well. Yes her feet appear more pigeon toed because I allow them to grow how she wants them, and she self trims but her legs appear straighter. Ultimately I believe this to be the best management for her (and most horses).
 
We have a mare who is bilaterally pigeon toed due to offset knees. She's 9. The issue could probably have been avoided with correct trimming as a bay but it's too late now.
She grows lateral flares on both front feet, which bugs me immensely but I have learned to live with it when I trim her.
She's just completed a 60km endurance ride barefoot in boots.
 
This is a long story, compressed. Mine has wonky legs too, also very scientific! He was shod for showing for a few years by a very good farrier, and he looked to have very good conformation, and was successful in the show ring.

One day I noticed a lump on the outside of his leg, just above his knee. The vet thought it was from an accident, I had a sneaky feeling that it was more to do with his feet, as he was stumbling and bad on his feet. After a fall on concrete I decided to have his shoes removed (this was several years ago). After a rest, the lump above his knee disappeared but he had a lovely pair of pigeoned toed feet! He remained without shoes for about 18 months. He was fine, it was me who couldn't cope, and I had his shoes put back on, but used a different farrier. Everything about his feet had improved, although he was still a bit pigeon toed, but not so bad as at first, and I could tell that he had grown a foot to support his leg above.

Fast forward, I said that when I gave up showing I would have his shoes off, and it is a good 18 months now that he has been barefoot. He now has a nearly perfect pair of front feet. They are round, although one foot is slightly worn off centre, which is obviously is wonkly leg above.

Hooves can change an awful lot, I can't see why you can't give it a try. Horses do grow hooves to support the leg above.
 
My mate is slightly pidgeon toed on both feet. She has grown a bit of flare on the inside of both her fronts but my farrier (who is also a qualified trimmer) is happy to leave them be. He takes a little off the flare so that lateral work isn't affected as the flare stops the break over in lateral work.

He is very much of the opinion that horses grow the feet they need and mirror how the horse moves. He was more bothered by the angle of her off hind which is a bit steep and recognised it's her pushing hind leg. More strengthening work. My mare is very pretty and would do well showing but I'll put up with the wonkiness and not show.
 
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