Barefoot Question

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Mancha

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My horse is currently shod in front and barefoot behind, he was previously shod behind but had them removed as he was out of work lame for a long time with bone spavin. He has seen a couple of different vets now, some have said he is probably better without hinds, some have said he would be better shod and my farrier also said this due to his feet wearing down too much.
His hocks haven't yet fused and he is being worked gently on a low dose of bute, so mostly walking and alot of this is hacking so he's doing a fair bit of road work.
So my question is do you think i should have him shod behind, or persevere without for a while longer? He is not at all footsore even on stones, it is just that his feet are wearing down quickly and also unevenly due to the spavins. Or is there anything i can do to improve his feet? Other than hoof boots as he will not wear them!!
 
Persevere. The more road work/ride you do the faster the hooves will grow to compensate for the wearing down. As for the hooves being uneven, either rasp the side thats not being worn as much or ask the farrier to do it. My mare wears one side down more than the other and every 4 weeks my hubby rasps them to even them out, she then sees the farrier every 3-4 months make sure her feet are OK! Goodluck.....
 
I have been a hoof geek for several years now.

I've NEVER once heard of a working barefoot horse wearing their feet out. I've heard farriers' warning it might happen many times though.

The only way I can forsee there could be a problem with excessive wear would be due to a highly inappropriate diet and terrible hoof quality - but even then I've never heard of it actually happening.

Work stimulates growth. A hoof is designed to be worked and they function best when worked. If you consider that the experts recommend a horse does 10-15 miles EVERY DAY in order to be able to achieve self trimming. I doubt you are doing that level of work!

There are plenty of barefoot endurance horses out there who manage just fine.

Please also be aware that barefoot hooves look much shorter than people are used to seeing

Regarding 'uneven wear'. I don't believe in this. I believe that if a horse has a particular pathology (such as spavins) that the hooves will wear in a way to support the limb. It may not look pretty - but if it keeps the horse sound and stabilizes the limb, then the farrier needs to respect it.

They aren't great pics, but can you see the difference in this horse's hind hooves?

This first one is 'normal'
leosoffhind.jpg


This one has a bad injury to the hock area (basically tore his leg off at the hock). Can you see the difference (look at the right side of the wall especially)
leosnearhind.jpg

Leosnearhindandleg.jpg


Fortunately the farrier can't lift the leg to trim the hoof at the moment - so the deviation is being left alone. As soon as the horse gets a trim and is made to look pretty, it will put a strain on that leg:(
 
If it aint broke don't fix it and if he's not sore then there isn't really a problem, over the years we're taught by books, magazines, trainers etc what a perfectly balanced foot should look like the reality is usually quite different especially in a horse with spavins or other pathology that will affect the way they move.
As oberon said bare feet are usually shorter than a shod foot and a horse with spavins is very likely to have uneven wear, his feet are compensating for his hocks and they will )if allowed to) do a pretty decent job of it too. :)
 
i was always told a horse will grow the feet it needs! my horse has always been fully shod, but as he was on box rest i got the shoes off since there was no point paying for shoes he didnt need. he was sore at first but now hes used to it he seems more comfortable (and goes better) than he did with shoes! to quote maggiesmum: if it aint broke dont fix it..
 
My experience is that spavined horses grow a deep collateral groove (ie a higher heel) on the inside of the affected leg. Don't try to balance it, it's what they need to be most comfortable and it will come and go with the amount of discomfort that the horse is in at the time.

If your horse is sound his feet are not wearing down too much. Listen to him, not your farrier, he knows best :)
 
Mancha said:
So my question is do you think i should have him shod behind, or persevere without for a while longer? He is not at all footsore even on stones, it is just that his feet are wearing down quickly and also unevenly due to the spavins.
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Your answer is in your post. ;) He is telling you he is fine by the sound of it and in my book the horse knows best in the end.
 
Agree with Oberon.
Would also add to consider taking the fronts off as well. Firstly, you re making your horse work with weights on the front feet, so he is moving differently/unnaturally. Secondly, the shoes in front effectively raise him up and he wil continue to be elevated as the hoof grows, so again it is affecting his locomotion and biomechanics.
There are lots of supplements etc on teh market for better hoof growth but one of the best things to do is free - masage the coronary bands daily.
 
Thanks for the responses :)
Yes personally i was happy with him barefoot behind and have not been having any problems but i pay my vets and farriers for their qualified opinions/experience which is what made me question it! I do not have him barefoot infront as he had recurrent hoof abcesses in his front feet when he was barefoot and he was foot sore when doing alot of hacking so i am happy with him shod in front at the moment. He is still lame/uneven due to the spavin anyway so it's difficult to tell if any of the lameness is due to his feet being sore but he walks happily out hacking on uneven ground/stones and i don't ever trot on roads/hard ground.
 
I think you will be fine, but in order to build your self awareness, have a look at the Rockley farm site, buy Feet First [seaweed is not longer advised] and check out Cavallo trimming document. You will build up your own knowledge base and as long as the horse is doing some regular road work the hind hooves should self trim.
 
Mancha said:
Thanks for the responses :)
Yes personally i was happy with him barefoot behind and have not been having any problems but i pay my vets and farriers for their qualified opinions/experience which is what made me question it!
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Just for info, farriers and vets are the same as the rest of us, they can only offer opinion. So little is really known about how the body functions that much of what is advised is based on tradition and what might have worked in the past. My OH (equine physio) is very excited that finally, with thanks to the advance of computer technology, real scientific research under way which will help us understand exactly what is going on rather than rely on well-qualified guesses. I guess he's looking for proof that he has been right all these years :)
 
I think a vet is more qualified to make a judgement than i am myself though even though i am an experienced horse owner, which is why i look to them for advice, it seems different vets and different farriers have differing views on barefoot/shoeing etc though so it is difficult to know where you stand. After looking at my horses back feet again today i'm not sure they are coping aswell as i'd thought and after some long hacks in the last couple of weeks one of them looks very different to the other. I may take some photos of them if there's anyone that may be able to comment/advise?
 
Mancha said:
Thanks for the responses :)
Yes personally i was happy with him barefoot behind and have not been having any problems but i pay my vets and farriers for their qualified opinions/experience which is what made me question it! I do not have him barefoot infront as he had recurrent hoof abcesses in his front feet when he was barefoot and he was foot sore when doing alot of hacking so i am happy with him shod in front at the moment. He is still lame/uneven due to the spavin anyway so it's difficult to tell if any of the lameness is due to his feet being sore but he walks happily out hacking on uneven ground/stones and i don't ever trot on roads/hard ground.
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Mancha - if he is sore and abscessing it won't be because he is barefoot. It will be because taking the shoes off has exposed a problem which needs addressing. You need someone experienced and on hand to advise you as to what that problem might be - and they will need to have a lot of experience of taking horses bare. But a common cause is at the very root - diet.

In relation to uneven wear - two examples below. First one the farrier declared the horse could never go bare because of uneven wear. The horse obviously wasn't listening because she has never looked back and works very hard on all surfaces, particularly road and stony tracks.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/honey-i-shrunk-horse.html

The horse in the following post used to wear her feet unevenly - until she got the correct diet and work. Now very fit she self maintains beautifully and has completed 3 80km rides this summer completely bare and coping easily with surfaces the shod horses struggled with. But when I first met this horse, some 18 months ago she couldn't even stand on concrete comfortably. Correct diet and exercise were the key.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/just-3-weeks-later.html

Although I have picked just two examples - there are lots more on the blog.
 
Mancha said:
I think a vet is more qualified to make a judgement than i am myself though even though i am an experienced horse owner, which is why i look to them for advice, it seems different vets and different farriers have differing views on barefoot/shoeing etc though so it is difficult to know where you stand. After looking at my horses back feet again today i'm not sure they are coping aswell as i'd thought and after some long hacks in the last couple of weeks one of them looks very different to the other. I may take some photos of them if there's anyone that may be able to comment/advise?
Click to expand...

If one of your horse's feet looks different to the other I would caution you strongly against allowing a farrier to try and force the feet to look symetrical, either by trimming or shoeing; I'm no expert either, but it sounds to me as though your horse is trying to compensate for the spavin by altering the way his foot loads. Interfering could make your horse less comfortable.

Its a difficult situation to be in, and I personally feel that not enough research has been done on this phenomenon, but the changes in his feet are surely happening for a reason, and were it my horse, I would not be happy altering it without understanding why it's happening.
 
Thankyou for responses, however my question was not really about front shoes at all. As it happens front shoes are working well for my horse, it is his hinds that i am questioning. For whatever reason he had hoof abcesses when he was barefoot in front, and has not had one since he's been shod in front so i am in no hurry to take them off.
My vet is due out before he is next shod so i will ask for advice then, as like you say i think the farrier tries to even them out and my horse then spends the next 6 weeks getting them back the way he wants them!
 
Why not talk to the farrier and say just that, ask him to humour you and not 're-balance' them 'just this once' to see what happens? You can then evaluate whether the horse is spending 6 weeks trying to get his feet back how he wants them. It';d be an interesting experiment and might answer a few questions for you. :)
 
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