Barefoot - questions - Oberon that means you!

Hedwards

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So some people may remember a couple of years ago Connie went down with concussive lami in one foot. we went through months and months of box rest, she had an imprint shoe fitted (which i believe saved her life) - into a heart bar shoe, which she has been in and has been fine. I had always believed she would remain in her heart bar to the end of her days - she has been happily sound and never really looked back. She is retired (she has only ever had front shoes on with me), and my farrier suggested last time he was out that it may be time that we considered going barefoot - he has been so pleased with the improvement in the foot, and believes the depth of the sole is at a point that it is an option.

So, even though i was pretty against it previously due to the massive improvement seen in her with her imprint and then heartbar, we're seriously considering barefoot all round. I realise there are hundreds of barefoot posts, and this is probably a bit lazy, but what pointers can people give me in preparing Connie for barefoot?

she is currently turned out at 7am and comes in at 4pm - the grazing is pretty good - its old dairy grazing so we do have to be very careful in the spring summer (the muzzle comes out), she gets a haylage net at night (excellent quality haylage) - weight wise my mind has gone blank, I want to say 8lbs but would need to look at the scales to be sure i'm thinking in the right currency (metric/imperial) - major brain fail! and is only fed TopSpec lite balancer (breakfast and dinner) - her weight wise (478kgs last time i checked with the weigh tape - which was about 15kgs out when compared to putting her on a weigh bridge)she looks fantastic - as commented by both our Vets and Farrier. She is due to be tested for cushings, and its very likely she has it - I was worried towards the end of last year there was something wrong with her, but it was decided that it was actually the really mild weather we had plus her incredibly thick coat - she seems so much happier now and gives the youngsters a run for their money in the field!
 
Pics would be nice (grovel in the dirt for a side view and the hover above for a sole view).

Barefoot horses feel more. So if the diet isn't 'correct' for her (and I mean that what SHE needs - not what the bumpf says on the bag) and her laminae gets inflammed - then she will feel it straight away.

Dr Pollitt's research has shown that sugar and starch weaken the laminae even before the horse shows lami symptoms.

This can be a pain with a metabolically challenged horse as they are notorious to keep comfy in spring and autumn.

However the flip side is that you are unlikely to get a full blown lami attack - you'll get fair warning before that happens.

I know you said it was concussive lami - but that laminae connection must have been compromised in the first place for that to have happened.

A Muzzle is a must!
Ignore any feeds that have Laminitis Trust badges. It's been paid for by the makers.

Low sugar and starch but high minerals (that are balanced) are the best way to go.

Boots and pads for when she isn't fully rock crunching.

Look at these resources
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
http://www.safergrass.org/
http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/horses_sole.htm

This horse (Fari) has been difficult to be barefoot until the owner got the mineral balance correct and has recently been diagnosed with Cushings.

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page27.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_Z8iYpsZqA&feature=share
 
While you wait for Oberon to reply... ;)

I've heard a lot of people have reported problems with the TopSpec, so you may want to replace it with something else? I use Pro-hoof from ebay, but I've heard good things about Equimins meta balance, as well.

Sounds like you've got a sensible farrier there, as well :).

ETA: Do'h. Cross posted :p
 
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Pics would be nice (grovel in the dirt for a side view and the hover above for a sole view).

Barefoot horses feel more. So if the diet isn't 'correct' for her (and I mean that what SHE needs - not what the bumpf says on the bag) and her laminae gets inflammed - then she will feel it straight away.

Dr Pollitt's research has shown that sugar and starch weaken the laminae even before the horse shows lami symptoms.

This can be a pain with a metabolically challenged horse as they are notorious to keep comfy in spring and autumn.

However the flip side is that you are unlikely to get a full blown lami attack - you'll get fair warning before that happens.

I know you said it was concussive lami - but that laminae connection must have been compromised in the first place for that to have happened.

A Muzzle is a must!
Ignore any feeds that have Laminitis Trust badges. It's been paid for by the makers.

Low sugar and starch but high minerals (that are balanced) are the best way to go.

Boots and pads for when she isn't fully rock crunching.

Look at these resources
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
http://www.safergrass.org/
http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/horses_sole.htm

This horse (Fari) has been difficult to be barefoot until the owner got the mineral balance correct and has recently been diagnosed with Cushings.

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page27.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_Z8iYpsZqA&feature=share

Thanks Oberon - yes you're quite right the laminae were more than likely compramised, I picked her up after three years of pretty much neglect - the hoof in question is boxy - god only knows what happened to her in those 3 years...

She is muzzled whenever turned out during spring/summer or when the grass is coming through

I am concerned to get the feeding right, and will have a good old read of those links you've provided. I dont have a bad word to say about topspec myself - the change since she has been on it has been very positive, however I realise a change is going to be on the cards.

Do you think she will need boots if she isnt worked any more, and will only ever walk from stable to field and back again?

PS will try and get some photos tonight...
 
While you wait for Oberon to reply... ;)

I've heard a lot of people have reported problems with the TopSpec, so you may want to replace it with something else? I use Pro-hoof from ebay, but I've heard good things about Equimins meta balance, as well.

Sounds like you've got a sensible farrier there, as well :).

ETA: Do'h. Cross posted :p

Thanks for this, will look at both products you've mentioned there

Yes - he's an excellent farrier - he has worked so hard with connie, i really have never been able to thank him as fully as i would like to - between him and my vet who worked really closely together they got Connie through it, and were really useful if ever i had any questions i needed to ask. Connie was of course the perfect patient - which helped a lot!
 
Thanks Oberon - yes you're quite right the laminae were more than likely compramised, I picked her up after three years of pretty much neglect - the hoof in question is boxy - god only knows what happened to her in those 3 years...

She is muzzled whenever turned out during spring/summer or when the grass is coming through

I am concerned to get the feeding right, and will have a good old read of those links you've provided. I dont have a bad word to say about topspec myself - the change since she has been on it has been very positive, however I realise a change is going to be on the cards.

Do you think she will need boots if she isnt worked any more, and will only ever walk from stable to field and back again?

PS will try and get some photos tonight...

Apologies - I advice boots only for work initially, so shouldn't be a need for them in your case.

If the TopSpec is working for her, then great....but any problems - look at grass and that before you blame her hooves.
 
I've heard a lot of people have reported problems with the TopSpec, so you may want to replace it with something else? I use Pro-hoof from ebay, but I've heard good things about Equimins meta balance, as well.

this. Too many people have had problems with TS for it to be a coincidence. It may be great if you have shoes on. Not so great if you don't. My horse was footsore for 2 years on T/S. I was too dim to realise what was causing his problems. :eek:
Also top spec did nothing vitamin and mineral wise for my feet. (in any of my horses) meta balance has made considerable difference.
Just seems pointless using something that has the potential to cause problems.
 
Shameless post hijack...Oberon....what chaff ( if any) do you feed?

I'm currently using Spillers Cool Fibre as it seemed to be the lowest sugar/starch fibre only feed I can find ( also good for the crazy arabs general alround wellbeing IYKWIM) ...I give this to my 3 good doers with a dob of MagOx as well.....plus hay. Currently in winter trash paddock with pretty much hay only and a scraping of grass at the less muddy end.

Hooves all good- general health all good.....would you recommend a balancer as well or not bother if they are shiny/healthy sound and well?

All barefoot ( of course):D
 
Apologies - I advice boots only for work initially, so shouldn't be a need for them in your case.

If the TopSpec is working for her, then great....but any problems - look at grass and that before you blame her hooves.

I definitely wont be blaming her hooves for anything! and I will be happy to change her feed if its required - its just understanding what she should have i'm struggling with...

here's a photo of the foot the day i got her - not really difficult to see that its in a real state! I'll get some current photos tonight (she was shod the week before xmas so are a few weeks old now)

Photo0097.jpg


Photo0096.jpg
 
Shameless post hijack...Oberon....what chaff ( if any) do you feed?

I'm currently using Spillers Cool Fibre as it seemed to be the lowest sugar/starch fibre only feed I can find ( also good for the crazy arabs general alround wellbeing IYKWIM) ...I give this to my 3 good doers with a dob of MagOx as well.....plus hay. Currently in winter trash paddock with pretty much hay only and a scraping of grass at the less muddy end.

Hooves all good- general health all good.....would you recommend a balancer as well or not bother if they are shiny/healthy sound and well?

All barefoot ( of course):D

A friend of mine with a lami prone horse has managed to find a feed merchant locally who can obtain hay chaff at £8 for a huge sack. I heard a rumour it's from the Mollichop factory but bagged up before they spray it with crap;)

I add it to my old boy's feed to bulk it out (he has dodgy teeth). But I would be perfectly happy to just stick to Fast Fibre and Speedibeet slop - he doesn't mind either way.

The Tank gets it as he's not keen on 'foreign foods' in a bucket and will eat the chaff with his minerals.

We have to demand what we want from the merchants - or we won't get.

Pure feeds also do an oat straw chaff that other barefooters use.
 
Top Spec do an oat straw chaff, Top chop lite which is mollases and preservative free. Simple systems also do a plain non mollased grass chaff (the one without the lucerne). Just to give you some alternative chaffs to think about.

Reminds me of my plan to aquire an old chaff cutter and do it myself!!
 
Top Spec do an oat straw chaff, Top chop lite which is mollases and preservative free. Simple systems also do a plain non mollased grass chaff (the one without the lucerne). Just to give you some alternative chaffs to think about.

Reminds me of my plan to aquire an old chaff cutter and do it myself!!

Top Chop Lite still has Alfalfa in it though :( Oasis do a straw chaff, its just getting hold of it!
 
Post hijack - chopped grass chaffs (graze on etc) what are they like for barefooters?

Also why not alfalfa?

Always interested in these barefoot posts!
 
Post hijack - chopped grass chaffs (graze on etc) what are they like for barefooters?

Also why not alfalfa?

Always interested in these barefoot posts!

I've used Readigrass successfully for my old boy but haven't needed it this year as he's doing so well since I started using balanced minerals.

Sugar content can be high in such products - so it depends on your horse's ability to deal with sugar.

I'd avoid it during frosty weather and spring grass though - just asking for trouble IMO.

Alfalfa (as a legume) is a good source of protein and calcium and is palatable to horses, so a good seller.
My forage is too high in calcium already and adding alfalfa makes things worse - and high calcium level appears to be a common theme in the UK's grazing.

Some horses develop hives and agitation with it but owners can be a bit slow to catch on.

It has it's place but I do object to it being in EVERYTHING you buy nowadays:(
 
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