Barefoot rehab for a sound horse

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chaps89

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I have put a deposit down on a 4year old ISH gelding, subject to vetting.
Should he pass one of the things I know I need to address is his feet.
He came over from Ireland in July so likely will have had minimal hoof care, and has been shod once since then (in front only) He's currently fed on a small amount of mix, chaff & red cell, being ridden 5 times a week, mix of hacking & schooling.
I know nothing about barefoot. However it is something I would like to learn about and consider. So I have questions please!
At the moment horse is sound but has got terrible feet. Upon googling it seems that most horses that seem to go barefoot are ones suffering with various lameness problems such as navicular, but presumably a horse without health problems can still benefit from being barefoot?
I'm sure this next question will horrify barefooters with my ignorance, but can/how is foot imbalance be corrected without shoes acting as a support/guide, is it all about healthy hoof quality and then sympathetic trimming?
From reading it appears the trim is a small part in going barefoot, but that diet and exercise play large parts.
Can a horse live out 24/7 successfully without detriment to it's feet? (Lots of what I've read seems to recommend horse being in during the day at spring time when grass is growing etc but not sure how feasible that is)
Am I right in thinking it is best to get diet right first so there is a good quality of hoof, then remove shoes?
Where can I learn what diet is best for a barefoot horse? From what I know, cereal free, low starch & well balanced mineral levels are all crucial, but I'm sure there is more to it than that!
How exactly do you 'rehab' a horse from shoes to barefoot? This horse has only had one set of fronts on so far, although is booked in to be re-shod on Thursday. Reading rockely farms blog it can be done without tracks & specialist facilities but what is the process? Horse will be kept on a normal livery yard, grazing on a moderate hill on sandy soil, sandy tracks to the field, concrete yard, indoor sand school, gravel/stoney driveway & access to bridleways & normal tarmac roads. Do you stop riding & work in hand in all cases? When do you start building up to ridden work? How long do you work for once shoes have very first come off and how slowly do you build up? What surfaces do you need/ how often do you work on different surfaces?
Is a farrier or 'trimmer' preferable to go through the process? How do you find a suitable person to help assist with the process and ongoing care? My concern about going barefoot is the length of time trimmers train for (I'm sure this must be a common querey!) Whilst I appreciate they are moving with the times and look at all aspects involved in hoof care, it seems farriers do more intensive training. If being barefoot is a combination of good diet, the right environment and the trim, if the owner can get the first two bits right can a farrier do the third. Or is the best way forwards really a trimmer and how do you find a suitable one, what sort of qualifications or experience do you need to look for?

My concern is the horse is only 4 and will be new to me and I'm not sure going barefoot straight away will be beneficial in terms of developing a relationship & continuing his education (not that this is more important than his health). I am considering turning him away for a month or two towards the end of winter anyway once we are more familiar with each other & for some chill time for him. Would that be a good time to start the rehab process? Would it be better to start it now before his feet get too used to shoes?

I'm sorry it's long, I'm sorry if I've horrified or appalled anyone with my ignorance, but hopefully people don't mind me asking questions and can help. If there's anything else I can read or haven't asked about but should have please just add in!
 
Lucky horse going to a kind, open minded owner!! My ponies are out 24/7 on a track system with a mineral balancer fed 3 to 4 times a week. Most horses are fine on unfertilized permament pasture, but some need to be fed soaked hay - time and experience will tell you if your horse needs this!! If he were mine I would have him barefoot immediately - but I won't inflame others by giving my reasons!! Google is your friend as well as several people who post here regularly and who will be very helpful! Good luck!
 
Hi - sorry but don't have time to read the whole post this morning. But one thing leapt out. Red Cell, don't feed Red Cell unless you have had the horse blood tested and you know he is short of iron. Very few horses suffer an iron deficiency. Anaemia in horses is more usually a product of copper deficiency. Horses don't excrete iron, and it is not uncommon for horses to have too much iron in their systems. This is implicated in the development of Insulin Resistance. Plus excess iron inhibits the absorption of other vital minerals.
 
If he's only had one set of fronts on then just don't have them reset when he sees the farrier next week. If he doesn't need shoes then don't put them on. Diet wise, low sugar/starch so no cereals, use fibre and oil instead if weight is needed. Exercise on varying surfaces is important to develop the foot. Trimming can be done by a decent sympathetic farrier or ask in your area for a good trimmer - just be aware there are some idiots out there who do far more harm than good when it comes to trimming.

The trim is what balances the hoof, even when the horse is shod.
Exercise wise if he's only had one set of shoes on then jsut work as normal including hacking on varied surfaces and keep an eye on how he's doing, if he seems sore or reluctant to walk on a surface then scale it back a little and build up from there.
Our guys are barefoot and live out 24/7 in the summer, we just make sure they're not on lush grass and supplement with hay as needed
 
Thankyou Alyth. I know some people will question why I will buy a horse with bad feet, after all there is a reason for the phrase 'no foot no horse' and certainly I've been through all of that with a horse I recently had pts (which is why I am having him vetted and will be talking face to face with the farrier before going ahead with the purchase - not sure I can face either the expense or heartache of going through hoof problems long term again!) but having been looking for 6 months and had 2 horses fail the vet, if he passes I am happy to put the work in as he really is what I have been looking for and lovely. And I'm hoping, young enough to correct any damage with no long term implications although as ever with horses there are no guarantees!
Would you mind pm'ing me with your reasoning as to going bf straight away? Would I not need to get diet sorted first before removing shoes? Soaked hay isn't a problem, that's something that can be done but that I didn't already know so thankyou. Do you not need to feed the vit/min balancer daily for it to have effect tho?

Lucy - I won't be keeping him on redcell, as with a lot of Irish horses he was quite poor upon arrival which is why he was given that by current owner but it's not something I'd want to continue giving him as he looks well at the moment and if he dropped again I'd want to look at why. However that's interesting about the copper deficiency & it possibly affecting absorption of other minerals.

mynutmeg - Thankyou for that. It doesn't sound as impossible and as complicated as it could be, when I started reading up I felt as though I needed some form of degree in science to work it all out! Certainly it sounds possible. I think maybe removing the shoes and just doing a sympathetic trim will be the best option on Thursday then and that gives me chance to either discuss barefoot with my old farrier or find a suitable trimmer before the next time.

So what minerals are important in the diet? Reading about, yeast, copper & magnesium all seem to be important? Any reason why, what are their benefits? Whats the best way to feed the correct amount and type of minerals? I won't be able to forage test as I won't control the hay supply and grazing is rotated so don't think I can do a tailored mineral.
 
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Your horse is only four, so it's not like taking a horse with navicular, who's been shod for 10 years + BF. It should be far, far easier for your horse to make the transition unless his hooves are truly, staggeringly awful at such a young age.

Isn't it funny the way that people shoe without thinking, but taking the shoes off, or having an unshod/BF horse is a massive deal? Think about it. ;)

I think that if you feed him a good diet (and the BF diet is really just a sensible diet for all horses shod or unshod), stimulate his hooves via movement (exercise on surfaces that he is comfortable on) and get the best hoof care professional in your area (pro-BF farrier or a trimmer) you are on the right track.

Learn as mush as you can. Look at the various blogs showing rehabs so that you learn what healthy hooves look like and what unhealthy hooves look like.

Plus, take photos so you can document the changes to his hooves, it's easy to forget exactly how they looked. :)
 
Faracat you make a jolly good point! I think it's that so much thought does seem to go into barefoot, it is more than just taking shoes off which is what makes me nervous, it feels like there's more that can go wrong. Yet the other things done in conjunction with taking shoes off are really common sense anyway (diet & environment)
How long and frequently is good to exercise the horse for to stimulate the hooves? I think he will benefit from being turned away at some point over winter, although he is 4 and bright & seems to enjoy his work I don't think he had the best start in life & would benefit from r&r. In relativity to going barefoot is it better to turn him away (he'd still come in daily for feed & a groom anyway and possibly some groundwork) first, or once he's more established (both in terms of being settled into his new home & his feet)
Have been doing lots of blog reading, the internet is most helpful, just trying not to overload my brain.
I have photos but they're not good ones & until he's mine I don't want to post but a photo diary is a very good idea, thankyou.

In terms of using my farrier, my last farrier I really liked. However the one thing he did with my last horse was trim the soles (rarely the frog, but always the soles) & reading online that is a big no no. Why is it such a bad thing, and how best to approach the farrier about it?

Can anyone recommend a trimmer or BF friendly farrier in Surrey (woking/guildford area) please?
And can we keep fingers crossed this one does actually pass the vet!
 
The thing that opened my eyes, was having youngsters. I got them both as yearlings and I lead them out in-hand a couple of times a week for training purposes - it never crossed my mind that this was good for their hooves too. They go over stones as if they were skipping through daisies! ;) The grey is now five and backed, her hooves are so concave and the horn is great quality. I found that cutting molasses from the diet was key. With them - having them BF isn't any more hard work at all. They're out 24/7 on restricted grazing as the grey gets fat on fresh air, have a tiny feed with a vit&min supplement and that's it.

My mare, needs about five hours of roadwork a week to keep her hooves nice. She can do more (as long as I gradually increase it) but less means that she doesn't self trim the breakover point and then her hooves start to look awful (long toes and flared) and so I have to get the farrier along more often.
 
Hey, I'm Guildford/Woking way too! I have 3 barefoot horses currently, my trimmer is Liz Chapman and I cannot recommend her highly enough. I had several bad experiences with local farriers who couldn't/wouldn't support my horses being barefoot and who made them lame after each and every trim, hence I swapped to Liz and have had sound horses ever since. She is superb in every respect! Her contact details are here - http://shoefree.co.uk/1.html

Personally if I were you I wouldn't reshoe, if he's only had one set of shoes on his feet 'should' be in far better shape than a horse that has been shod for years, infact he may not even notice that he's had them taken off. If you're turning away or at the very least planning a nice quiet winter then that's a perfect time to have him barefoot.

The biggest tip I have for you is don't over complicate it. The 'barefoot' diet is just good common sense, no sugar, low starch high fibre - it's what horses should eat regardless. The mineral balancing is simple too, there are some brilliant supplements available online that are designed for hoof health, they have higher amounts of the important things - magnesium, coppper, zinc are the common soil deficencies in our area - and you just need to feed a scoop of that daily. As for exercise they are all different, my two geldings did a LOT of roadwork to get them self trimming but some horses need less. I found working in a sand school was brilliant for their feet.

PM me if you need anything, I'm prob not far away :)
 
What I haven't seen mentioned at all is hoof boots! If he does get a little uncomfortable you can use boots to help whilst his feet improve.

We had a nightmare the first time my pony was taken barefoot and without hoof boots we wouldn't have managed. These days he doesn't need boots at all and crunches over everything, although now that he's back doing light ridden work (time off is not connected to his feet) I may need to invest in a set of boots again as we build up.
 
Quite a agree with you faracat. I was speaking to an EP the other day and he said loads of folk will say oh I can't do all that barefoot stuff, I know nothing about it and put shoes on. He then asks them to tell him what they know about shoeing :D
 
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He came over from Ireland in July so likely will have had minimal hoof care

Whoooooaaa!!! Make a few sweeping generalisations why don't you? Insult an entire nation while you're at it.


Quote:
As with a lot of Irish horses he was quite poor on arrival

But cheap though eh?
 
D_morrow. I said likely, not that he definitley didnt. And likely is based on the state of his feet. And given as his history is unknown thats all we can go on. I do admit reading that back it does come across wrong, apologies. Re price, fwiw its none of your damn business but yes he probably was cheap when he came over, the seller bought a few over all at the same time and not that its to do with you but hes a reasonable price for what he is now. And having been horse hunting for the last 6 months I think its fair to say a large number of horses that are the type im after are from ireland and as with anything quality varies but from what ive seen whats on sale over here have often done alot at a young age and often havent been in the best of shape but have the potential to do what I want, be nice 'people' and smarten up which is all that matters to me.
Everyone else with your more helpful replies, thankyou
 
First can I say what a great owner this horse is going to get.

Second, the reason you only read about the unsound ones is because there are so many sound horses whose feet have been incredibly improved that it would bore people to read about them all :)

PM Oberon for her diet sheet, she has it all written up.
 
chaps89 said:
Faracat you make a jolly good point! I think it's that so much thought does seem to go into barefoot, it is more than just taking shoes off which is what makes me nervous, it feels like there's more that can go wrong. Yet the other things done in conjunction with taking shoes off are really common sense anyway (diet & environment)
How long and frequently is good to exercise the horse for to stimulate the hooves? I think he will benefit from being turned away at some point over winter, although he is 4 and bright & seems to enjoy his work I don't think he had the best start in life & would benefit from r&r. In relativity to going barefoot is it better to turn him away (he'd still come in daily for feed & a groom anyway and possibly some groundwork) first, or once he's more established (both in terms of being settled into his new home & his feet)
Have been doing lots of blog reading, the internet is most helpful, just trying not to overload my brain.
I have photos but they're not good ones & until he's mine I don't want to post but a photo diary is a very good idea, thankyou.

In terms of using my farrier, my last farrier I really liked. However the one thing he did with my last horse was trim the soles (rarely the frog, but always the soles) & reading online that is a big no no. Why is it such a bad thing, and how best to approach the farrier about it?

Can anyone recommend a trimmer or BF friendly farrier in Surrey (woking/guildford area) please?
And can we keep fingers crossed this one does actually pass the vet!
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You need tough soles which they cannot develop into if they are constantly being pared away!! With barefoot horses the load is taken by the wall and the outside edge of the sole....this is good and correct!! The sole develops a callus at the toe area and paring these areas makes the hoof 'footy'....aka sore!! Hence no trimming of sole or frog is a good mantra!!
 
Scarlett, I may well end up messaging you so thanks for your response.
Thanks cpt, I know when you messaged me you were quite concerned about his feet (as I already was anyway) so his purchase isn't something i'm undertaking lightly but if it's something that can be worked with with time then given he's what I have been looking for for some time i'm happy to take time to put the effort in. I'll pm oberon, a diet sheet sounds very helpful.
Alyth, thankyou for explaining about the sole, helps me understand better.

Vetting is being booked this morning. As it stands, if all goes ok I think he will have new fronts on on thursday so I can spend a few weeks getting his diet settled, getting to know him and what is normal for him and finding a suitable farrier/trimmer before making changes then will give barefoot a go. I can understand the argument for not re-shoeing this time round but feel on balance it is better to be prepared to give it the best chance of working.
 
chaps89 said:
I'm sure this next question will horrify barefooters with my ignorance, but can/how is foot imbalance be corrected without shoes acting as a support/guide, is it all about healthy hoof quality and then sympathetic trimming?
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With enough comfortable/correct (heel first) movement the hooves will find the balance that fits the body and the way your horse moves. This is opposed to enforcing a balance we deem correct. Inappropriate trimming can be a problem as well.

Good on you.
 
Best thing for feet (shod or unshod) is exercise and sugar free, but balanced (vits and mins) diet, address these whilst he is reshod in front and then see how he is looking next shoeing time.
 
The 'shoe support' answer is all about understanding that horses know perfectly well how to build the right foot for their particular leg and body without our help, as long as we keep them the right way and they are free of disease.

For example, your horse has a big left/right imbalance at the moment. If you take off his shoes and work him, he will straighten that up in about a month. Just watch the hairline change, and take plenty of photos because the changes will amaze you!
 
Thankyou all for the responses. Unfortunately after vetting we decided against purchase as although sound he was scuffing his hinds and his off fore was turned out from the fetlock joint and we were just too concerned about any longterm implications. However I will certainly bear this thread in mind for if I do manage to find a horse.
 
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