Barefoot transition guidance please?

Liath

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Hi, I'm a long-time lurker and occasional poster but this is my first thread... could I please have some guidance/advice on making the transition to barefoot please? I've read LOADS of threads here about barefooting over the past few months, and learnt a massive amount, but it'd be great to have some specific advice for my boy!

Background: He's a 9 yo ISH, I've owned him 12 weeks and I adore him, he's perfect for me in every way.... with the exception of his feet!!

When he was vetted the vet picked up a 'sheared heel' and suggested bar shoes- farrier obliged, shear is healing well, however although when I bought him the rest of his feet didn't look too bad, they have deteriorated massively since working on different terrain and having a different routine.

He was previously kept in pretty much 24/7- got an hour or so turnout and was worked daily either in an arena or hacking mainly on the roads, now he's out for up to 7 hours a day on poor pasture, in overnight, worked every other day on average, hacking over hilly, rocky, muddy terrain or in an arena- I have obviously built his hacking up slowly as it was a bit of a shock to his system!

Feed-wise, previously on limited haylege and 'pony nuts'- and was a bit poor looking when he arrived, now having whatever nibbles of grass he finds plus ad-lib hay at night and two feeds a which are mainly to get his supplements into him, and consist of:
Fast Fibre, a handful of Badminton Hi-fibre complete, a cup of micronised linseed and handful of hay chaff.

His current supplements are: Salt, bicarbonate of soda, turmeric and formula 4 feet, which i'm about to change to Pro-balance. He's been on this feed/supplement plan for around 10 weeks now.

My farrier is horrified at the state of his feet, as am I- he seems to have very soft, crumbly horn, which doesn't grow particularly fast, obviously had the sheared heel, and has had terrible thrush.

I have all but cleared the thrush by scrubbing with Milton sterilising fluid and spraying with 'Hoof Master with Violet' but the horn continues to be soft and crumbly- and I know this will take a long time to grow out, and even longer with shoes on!

He's been shod every 4 weeks, and has *just* held his shoes- clenches rise within 24hours of being shod, wall breaks away round old and new nail holes, he looses nails and has to wear over reach boots pretty much 24/7 to protect his legs from the risen clenches after week two as they are so high.... he's remained sound, but I'm not sure how!!

My farrier and I are now in agreement (it took me a while to bring him round ;-) ) to trying him barefoot and seeing how he goes.... which is quite scary for me as along with most, I'm indoctrinated to the 'shoes or loose' idea!

His shoes are coming off on Nov 28th (if he hasn't thrown them before!) and I plan to get some boots and pads to hack him in when he's ready, lead him on concrete and arena to start 'conditioning' his feet and turn him out 'bare'... he'll have to walk over concrete and a 3 metre patch of 'rough' stony ground to get to his field- planning to allow him to pick his way slowly over it.

I'll post some pictures as a 'reply' as my computer has a habit of crashing if I try to post too much text and pictures but my questions are, amongst other things...

Am I making the right decision to take his shoes off?
Is there anything else I should do between now and Nov 28th when they come off?
Does his feed sound OK?
Any recommendations for boots and what pads will he need?
Should he be booted to get to the field to start with? (this may be an issue with yard staff!!)
Anything else I should be doing/ not doing?

Sorry for SUCH a long post, but I'm hoping I've got all the info needed in - Huge thanks, loads of chocolate biscuits and a large baileys to anyone who has got this far!!
 
Left front prior to last shoeing:

101_1298-1.jpg


and after...

101_1308-1.jpg


101_1307-1.jpg



The 'worst' back foot...

101_1312-1.jpg


101_1311-1.jpg




Random other pics, sorry, my camera has messed up the order, so not sure which is which!!

rightforeafter.jpg


101_1306-1.jpg


101_1313-1.jpg



Solar shots from before and after shoeing before last:

Rhindbefore.jpg


Milofeet012.jpg


Milofeet032.jpg


BarShoes002-1.jpg



Hope they are some help- sorry they are so random, I did try to take them in sequence so I'd know what was what but the computer/camera seem to have jumbled them all up!
 
I've sent you a pm with some generic info but you appear to have thought of everything already and have a good plan in place :).
 
Have you found the Phoenix Barefoot Forum? If not have a look on there - it's full of fantastic advice.

I am no expert but pony nuts are not an ideal barefoot diet. A good basic barefoot diet would be unmolassed sugarbeet (kwikbeet has lowest sugar), micronised linseed, yea sacc, magnesium oxide and a hoof supplement. I personally use Progressive Earth pro hoof, but there are a few good ones.

I am in he process of going barefoot as my boy's hoof quality was awful shod and the above diet has done wonders for his hoof quality.

Keep an eye on the haylage he might do better on long soaked hay if he is sugar sensitive.
 
OP - firstly good luck! :)

Any chance you could keep us updated on how he does? My boy's feet are similar but not quite as bad - horn chipping away from the outside in that never seems to quite grow out... I keep debating trying barefoot but whilst my farrier is generally lovely and helpful, isn't much of a barefoot person for horses in work so not much encouragement from that quarter!
 
holy moly :eek: those sole shots are a bit eye watering :(

I suspect you will need boots and pads to build those frogs up comfortably. Sounds like you've done lots of research and got the diet in place well done :)
 
How big is he? Is it possible that he has Connemara blood on both sides? I ask because he has hoof separation which looks identical to a genetic disease in Connemaras but it has to be inherited from both parents.

If he hasn't got the genetic form, then your diet changes should sort it out and you have done a fantastic amount of preparation - well done!

You are going to be rewarded with some wonderful angle changes on those feet. Take photos, you'll love what you see. It's clear from the photos how desperate he is to have feet a different shape.

From the detail and attitude in your first post, I think you'll do well.



ps surprisingly, a lot of us find pony cubes are absolutely fine for barefooters who need more food. We think it is because they are so well cooked to make them into cubes in the first place.
 
holy moly :eek: those sole shots are a bit eye watering :(

I suspect you will need boots and pads to build those frogs up comfortably. Sounds like you've done lots of research and got the diet in place well done :)



I can't see what you mean TT?

The frogs look nicely meaty to me, but the OP could ask the farrier not to trim the sides off like that. Otherwise, the soles look solid and I can't see anything that suggests that she'll necessarily need boots or pads.

OP if the heel is still sheared when the shoes come off, bung sudocreme in it every day with a cotton wool plug, and then sudocreme alone when it won't hold a plug. It's never failed on a shear for me :)
 
Liath the only other thing I think you can do is to try and find a patch of deep scrunchy gravel and walk him around on that to try and harden up his soles before the shoes come off. The surface should be abrasive, but shift under his foot as he puts it down. Sand will just about do, but something bigger and looser would be ideal.

Also make sure your farrier knows that he should not trim off any sole callous, even if he thinks it would help balance the foot.
 
Ghostie- thanks for your replies- yes pony nuts and haylege were before- now on hay and 'good stuff'!! I have found and lurked around the Phoenix forum too, but to be honest there is so much there it's difficult to know what I need to read right now and what will be more useful in the future!

Lego- will happily keep you updated, it's taken me three shoeings worth of 'persuasion' going from saying 'someone suggested barefoot might help...' to 'how about we try him barefoot now?' to get my farrier onside- he's pretty good and won't mind me telling him NOT to cut sole and frog.. but some can be touchy!

Tiger Tail- his soles and frogs do look better than that now- and believe me those shots don't show it at it's worst!! Somehow I forgot to take 'fresh' sole shots but will try to get some and add so you can (hopefully!) see the improvement. Thanks for the positive feedback about his diet- I have researched quite extensively!

CPTrayes- I'm told he's ISH, so assume that is TB X ID, but who knows- he's passported as ISH, but with no breeding record so could be anything! He's just touching 16hh... here's a pic of 'the whole horse'....I'd be interested to have opinions on his likely breeding!

101_1273.jpg
 
Wow - you are really good at taking hoof pics
2thumbs.gif
.

Hooves not bad at all to start off with.

Flaring nothing out of the ordinary. Frogs and heels fairly robust for shod.

Heels a little run under, but not the worst I've seen today.

Fronts give the impression of being bull nosed - but I suspect that's an illusion from the external rasping to reduce the flare.

Soles not too flat from what I can see.

The crumbling? Localised to the nail holes only - no internal structures are involved.

The walls are too long and putting pressure on the coronets at the top.

Your horse is cleverly trying to shed some of that excess.....but the metal is stopping him :p.

When the shoes come off, the hooves will split around the bottom and look terrible.

DO NOT FREAK OUT.

It's cosmetic. He won't do any harm to the well connected wall or internal structures.

Your farrier will hopefully provide a sympathetic trim on the 28th - no frog or sole paring and a minimal smoothing with the rasp. Your farrier may be keen to remove all the raggedy bits for fear of splitting, but it may be counter productive to remove too much tissue at first......

I certainly wouldn't be concerned about taking those hooves barefoot :).
 
Liath he looks like a great IDxTB to me. Just the kind of good doer whose feet crumble on an unsuitable diet!!

No sign of double Connemara there, so I think you'll be fine!
 
Liath the only other thing I think you can do is to try and find a patch of deep scrunchy gravel and walk him around on that to try and harden up his soles before the shoes come off. The surface should be abrasive, but shift under his foot as he puts it down. Sand will just about do, but something bigger and looser would be ideal.

Also make sure your farrier knows that he should not trim off any sole callous, even if he thinks it would help balance the foot.

Ah, now thats interesting- we have some turnout pens (for laminitics/ poorly horses/ restricted turnout types usually!) that I can use- they have 'sharp' gravel surfaces (definitely not pea gravel!) quite deep and definitely 'move' underfoot- I've been avoiding using them as I was concerned about him getting a bit stuck in his white line- the little bits seems to manage to work their way under the front of his shoes- but he can certainly go out there to play for a while everyday from now on.

I will also take note to ask my farrier not to touch his frogs, soles or bars with his little paring knife he's so fond of from now on!
 
Thanks Oberon- glad you're impressed with the pics- I took notes from you guys requests on other peoples posts! LOL!

Really reassuring to read that you aren't too horrified by the state of his feet! I'm bracing myself for the 'breakoff' period, as I know it's got to happen, and for the invevitable 'cruelty' jibes...!!

CPTrayes- didn't think there was any Connie in there, but good to hear you don't think so either!
 
Just wanted to say I'm impressed with your organisation! It will certainly help you and your horse while his feet adjust, take lots of pics to compare, even if you dont see big changes straight away the pics will be there if you're having a bad day to show you the changes you have made.

Good luck, and keep us updated!
 
Just an update for those interested, as I said I would... today was the 'big day'!

This morning we went for a lovely long hack round the forest and over the hill for a 'last blast' before his shoes came off- planning to get some boots but obviously couldn't measure for and order them whilst he was still shod so he'll be having a few days off while I measure and order.

Then this afternoon my farrier came.... we discussed options as the boy (typically!) has held his shoes much better this time... and came to the conclusion that 'all off' was still the best option.

Farrier was brilliant, didn't pare his soles or frog and (I think) just did what he needed to in terms of rasping- you guys will know more than me so hopefully can tell me from the following pics.

He seemed very comfortable on the concrete of the yard, had no problems being led down teh concrete aisle towards his turnout, and didn't bat an eyelid walking over the 'rough' area to his field.... no obvious issues in the field and came in with no obvious footiness either, so all in all, a VERY good day, and hopefully the start of a sucessful transition.

Photos:

For comparison, front left, from roughly the same angle, before and after shoes came off:

Milofeet25-11-12003.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins008.jpg


and the rest of the 'no shoes' shots:

Right front, as above and:

Milobarefootjourneybegins007.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins009.jpg


Left Front:

Milobarefootjourneybegins010.jpg



Milobarefootjourneybegins011.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins012.jpg


Left Back:

Milobarefootjourneybegins013.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins014.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins015.jpg


Right Back:

Milobarefootjourneybegins016.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins017.jpg


Milobarefootjourneybegins018.jpg



Before anyone panics, the 'pinky' bits on his soles are left over 'Hoofmaster' spray that I've been using to get rid of the last of his thrush!

I'll be interested to see how much of his horn breaks off tomorrow when he has a full day in the field... but will be very releived not to have to put overreach boots on him ;)
 
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Wow, what a great start :) obviously all your preparation has paid off. I'd say the diet changes have improved his horn quality already and you'll be doing all your normal things in no time. Well done :) x
 
Looks like your farrier's done a good job :). Don't be alarmed if your horse goes a bit footy over the rough areas over the next few days; this is a normal phase usually attributed to the feet 'waking up', and should improve fairly quickly.

Keep up the good work :D.
 
Good luck :D

Keep us updated - and piccies too please! Think I'll be taking the backs off my boy in a couple of weeks and since he also has crumbling around the nail holes, will be good to see what to expect... Everyone says it's normal, but still bracing myself for them looking terrible and the comments...
 
Great start. You are going to get one gi-normous angle change in those front feet, you can see the new angle at the coronet now. Instead of growing outwards, like it does in shoes, that line will grow straight down and shorten his toes by a long way.

Don't rush to buy boots! You may not need them at all, and if you do they may not be the right size for long if you buy them straight away.
 
Great start. You are going to get one gi-normous angle change in those front feet, you can see the new angle at the coronet now.
Especially the left front looking at the photo in isolation.

It might be worth getting a couple of the 4lb EPS pads that can be cut to shape (slightly bigger than the hoof imprint) and taped on with duct tape. A faff and temporary but I've found them invaluable in the past. You may well not need them but they're a great addition to your first aid box anyway. The 4lb ones squash down and mould to the hoof very quickly.
http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Pads/

Ps. Good luck. x Oh and that nail damage will soon grow out and just be a bad memory. x
 
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Thank you!

I'm not expecting it to be all plain sailing but am hoping it won't be too traumatic- for either of us!!

Just don't get carried away at first - even if he is willing to go, go, go.

Keep him moving, but on 'safe' ground (soft/rock free) for two weeks to give his soles chance to put some padding down and protect his internal structures.

After that - start introducing more surfaces but let him guide you.

Some horses feel great at first and want to go crazy - but you risk bruising or even sub solar abscessing (both painful and progress halting) if the soles aren't up to it initially :).

Once the hooves are healthy - the world is your oyster ;).
 
Thank you for your encouraging replies!

Today he was seen doing a beautiful extended trot, complete with flicky-toes, round his field, so he was obviously very comfortable there!

Later I walked him in hand for five minutes over our car park , which is rough compacted hard-core and he was a little bit footy, but certainly no where near as bad as I'd have expected!

cptrayes- thanks for the advice about boots- unfortunately our hacking as all pretty rough so I'm very doubtful he will ever manage it without boots- but I've taken on board what you've said about his feet changing shape dramatically and revised my plan to buy new, expensive boots- will be scouring e-bay for some cheaper second hand ones to start us off!!

Amandap- thanks for that link, will get some for my 'tool/first aid kit' as they are so reasonably priced- wont hurt to have them :)

On the subject of boots- I'm planning to get some 12mm pads to start off and am wondering if I'll need Pastern wraps too- does anyone manage without them to start with?
 
Oberon- cross posted with you- Thanks for your advice- I'll avoid the car park for a couple of weeks and stick to the field and arena :)
 
Great job you're doing! Could I just suggest (at risk of being shouted down) that after a good long spell - a year or so - if you go back into shoes, try him in natural balance . It really does help to improve hoof shape with short toe and strong heels.
 
A quick update, as promised, for those interested! (With apologies to those who have seen this elsewhere ;)!)

Milo has been shoeless for a month now, farrier due any day to 'trim' but don't think he's going to need to get his nippers out as the boy seems to be doing a fairly good job of self trimming... probably only needs a rasp run round and his toes rolled it seems!

He's sound in the field and on concrete, sound in hand in the school, but a little footy with me on board (there are some pretty impressive stones amongst the surface, so I'm not surprised!) and is quite happy in the school and hacking in his boots.

We're having a few issues with the boots- they fit round the bottom of his hoof, but are 'gappy' at the top, so we've now got 12mm pads and gaiters/pastern wraps which are helping a bit, but still getting school surface/little stones/mud in them at times... not entirely sure where to go from here with that, but it's a work in progress!

Some pics to show his progress so far...

Left fore immediately after last set of shoes...

101_1308-1.jpg


Just after shoes came off...

Milobarefootjourneybegins008-1.jpg


After a month 'bare'...

Lfore2.jpg


Solar shot of left fore:

Lfore4.jpg


Edited to add some more pics as that is is 'worst' foot!

Left Hind:

Lhind3.jpg


Lhind2.jpg


Lhind1.jpg


Lhind4.jpg



Other than the 'boot' issues, which to be honest are getting me down a bit as I don't feel I can go for a decent hack for fear of getting stones in them, I'm really pleased with his progress.... I don't think we'll ever get to rock crunching on our terrain (think steep hills/inclines and ROCKS everywhere!) but I'm hopeful that eventually we'll find a solution to the boot problems (probably different boots once his feet have finished changing shape!) and that we won't have to go back to shoes. :)
 
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Hello there *waves*. What a difference - you must be pretty chuffed!

Dont stress about what he may or may not do in the future. I know I never expected Arnie to manage my lane and now all of a sudden he is rock crunching over it and happy to even trot up it. He is 13 months into shoes off though so you have a long way to go.

Expect ups and downs over the next while - its not plain sailing but suddenly it will get easier.

I wasnt very successful with gaiters - we ended up ditching them but for a while I used pop socks and that stopped any rubbing. I did use ordinary mens socks and they were great but Arnie kept getting stuck in his socks and i had to cut him free so I went back to pop socks and then nothing. Socks definately stopped the mud and surface getting in so much though and Milo isnt as chunky footed as Arnie so he might be able to wear socks easier. You can let them bunch up at the top of the boot to act like a wee collar.

K xx
 
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