Barefoot transition - how's she doing?

[Bernster]

Hi all. Am new to barefoot so please bear with me. Can I have some views from you knowledgeable bf peeps pls? Took shoes off about 6 weeks ago, recent trim last week. Apologies for the sun and goop on the earlier shots. I think the more recent ones are better pics so feel free just to comment on those. I do have shots of all feet but the right fore is my focus (soft tissue damage/navicular).

Took her off livery mix about 8 weeks ago to just hi fi lite, started on forage plus balancer about 4 weeks ago although she doesn't like it so looking for a new one. Not sound, and out of work at the moment, but that was the case before I took the shoes off. Treating thrush with red horse sole cleanser, getting better slowly but still not cleared up.

I'm expecting this to take a while but would be grateful for any tips pls as to what more I should/could be doing. Thanks.

Right fore, just after shoes taken off

Right fore now, just after first trim

Right fore, shoes off

Right fore now

 

[ester]

When you take the side on pic you need to get at right angles to the hoof so that you can see the heel angles . Though it does look as though you will have a steeper angle come down.

Other thought in the afters is were the sides of the frog trimmed?

 

[Bernster]

When you take the side on pic you need to get at right angles to the hoof so that you can see the heel angles . Though it does look as though you will have a steeper angle come down.

Other thought in the afters is were the sides of the frog trimmed?

Haha I need lessons in even taking a photo of bf ! Yes frog was trimmed - farrier trim not bf trimmer (having trouble finding one to come out). Is that a no no? From what I can see, the angle of all her hooves is changing, the fronts more noticeably, frogs are becoming more weight bearing on all four, and she kind of looks like she's on tip toe in the earlier pic. but not so much now. Does that sound right?

 

[ester]

Frogs apart from taking off any really raggedy bits are best left if you can convince them of that as they will change and beef up a fair bit as they start to weight bear. Hooves are pretty good at managing themselves I've been fascinated recently as Frank was shedding his frogs his bars grew to compensate, frog shedding complete they removed themselves again! It sounds like you are seeing good changes to me .

If you look on the rockley blog or from here nikicb has it down to a fine art for photos https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.572567946215570.1073741916.253388098133558&type=3

 

[Bernster]

Brilliant thx. I have had a look at rockley but didn't think she'd even have tips for taking a good pic, what a helpful resource that is. I'm often found hunched over, staring at my horse's feet now but it's amazing what more you see when looking at the pics. Think he trimmed as her frogs have been a bit raggedy due to the thrush.

 

[ester]

So long as he isn't in to doing it routinely . For thrush I have found red horse products to be really good and v. easy to use .

 

[Ronalda]

Farrier should spend his time bringing the heels down rather than slicing off the sides of the frog.

 

[criso]

re the forageplus balancer, you could try the progressive earth or equivita ones but they contain pretty similar ingredients and none of the flavourings and sugar so expect to have problems getting her to eat it and think long term.

One of mine is fussy and it took me at least a couple of months to build up to the full dose ( I mix my own minerals so broadly similar to the ones I've mentioned just slightly different proportions). I started with about 1/4 tea spoon and adjusted it up after a few days happily eating that amount and so on. He now finishes his dinner in seconds licks the bowl clean but it took a long time to get that point. These days it's easier to introduce something new as he's been sugar free for over a year now but I still add anything new very very slowly.

If you ever use Titmuss for feeds they have currently got lots of free samples of the Agrobs feeds at the moment. These are fairly new on the market but a lot of barefooters are having good results with them. Mr fussy loved the musli when I tried a sample and this is the horse that sniffed suspiciously at oats the first time.

ETA all the farriers I've used have trimmed frogs, at least 3 put forward the theory that over developed frogs cause abscesses

 

[Bernster]

Farrier should spend his time bringing the heels down rather than slicing off the sides of the frog.

Thanks for responding - I know it's early days so maybe hard to tell, but do you think we're going in the right direction? I'll ask him why he trims the frog and discuss whether he can hold off from doing so, but if we're way off course then maybe I need a bf trimmer instead? I have had trouble getting a trimmer appt so far but will ask for more recommendations.

 

[Bernster]

re the forageplus balancer, you could try the progressive earth or equivita ones but they contain pretty similar ingredients and none of the flavourings and sugar so expect to have problems getting her to eat it and think long term.

One of mine is fussy and it took me at least a couple of months to build up to the full dose ( I mix my own minerals so broadly similar to the ones I've mentioned just slightly different proportions). I started with about 1/4 tea spoon and adjusted it up after a few days happily eating that amount and so on. He now finishes his dinner in seconds licks the bowl clean but it took a long time to get that point. These days it's easier to introduce something new as he's been sugar free for over a year now but I still add anything new very very slowly.

If you ever use Titmuss for feeds they have currently got lots of free samples of the Agrobs feeds at the moment. These are fairly new on the market but a lot of barefooters are having good results with them. Mr fussy loved the musli when I tried a sample and this is the horse that sniffed suspiciously at oats the first time.

ETA all the farriers I've used have trimmed frogs, at least 3 put forward the theory that over developed frogs cause abscesses

Thanks Criso - she's generally pretty good but def took issue with this one. I will get some samples from Titmuss and try one of the other balancers you've suggested. I did look at those before I went for the forage plus one.

 

[criso]

From making up my own minerals tb feedback is that copper, zinc phosphorous and to a lesser extent magnesium taste horrible. The forageplus has high levels of all of all of these.
Unfortunately these are the things you need for good feet.

Equivita might be worth a try, the levels are almost as good and they use copper and zinc sulphate instead of bioplex versions. Arguably the latter are better absorbed but the former are less bulky so easier to sneak in.

 

[Ronalda]

... but do you think we're going in the right direction?

Feeties are very nice.

Trimming along the sides of the frog is just a farrier thing; but not necessary.

In an ideal world the horse would create its own hoof by working on hard and abrasive ground and you could just rasp on a cosmetic roll yourself.

 

[TPO]

I can't see photos on work PC so am answering "blind" but...

I wouldn't be worrying about bringing heels down. From what I've read, and is common in newly de-shod horses, the frogs are weak and thrushy. To bring the heels down loads underdeveloped, and possibly sore, structures. Concentrate on getting the frog healthy and keeping the toe in check. When the toe comes back and the frog is healthier then the heels will adapt themselves.

A really good read is The Hoof Guided Method by Maureen Tierny. I think it's about £15 from Amazon; it explains things a lot better than me!

I've never had a problem feeding balancers but Progressive Earth (on eBay) Pro Hoof and Pro Balance both seem to be more palatable than FF for fussy eaters.

Red Horse stuff is great. Field Paste and Arti-mud both work wonders on thrush and using a wire brush to clean the foot and gently exfoliate the frog and sole also helps.

Good luck

 

[criso]

I.


I've never had a problem feeding balancers but Progressive Earth (on eBay) Pro Hoof and Pro Balance both seem to be more palatable than FF for fussy eaters.

If you compare ingredients, the progressive earth and forage plus are very similar in composition and ratios however if you are feeding each at their recommended rate, you are feeding twice as much of everything (except selenium) with forageplus so I do wonder if it's just that it is easier to feed less.

 

[Bernster]

Thank you, you lovely peeps. I've been slowly absorbing info and making changes but it's quite full on this barefoot lark!

Feeties are very nice.

Trimming along the sides of the frog is just a farrier thing; but not necessary.

In an ideal world the horse would create its own hoof by working on hard and abrasive ground and you could just rasp on a cosmetic roll yourself.

Ok, thanks. I've been reluctant to work her as she's not sound, so have just been doing gentle walking around the yard (concrete, and non stony). Frogs are improving slowly but am battling thrush.

I can't see photos on work PC so am answering "blind" but...

I wouldn't be worrying about bringing heels down. From what I've read, and is common in newly de-shod horses, the frogs are weak and thrushy. To bring the heels down loads underdeveloped, and possibly sore, structures. Concentrate on getting the frog healthy and keeping the toe in check. When the toe comes back and the frog is healthier then the heels will adapt themselves.

A really good read is The Hoof Guided Method by Maureen Tierny. I think it's about £15 from Amazon; it explains things a lot better than me!

I've never had a problem feeding balancers but Progressive Earth (on eBay) Pro Hoof and Pro Balance both seem to be more palatable than FF for fussy eaters.

Red Horse stuff is great. Field Paste and Arti-mud both work wonders on thrush and using a wire brush to clean the foot and gently exfoliate the frog and sole also helps.

Good luck

Thanks, have been using Red Horse Sole Cleanser every few days but am now going to use it daily. If that doesn't improve, then will have a look at some of their other stuff, like the arti-mud.

If you compare ingredients, the progressive earth and forage plus are very similar in composition and ratios however if you are feeding each at their recommended rate, you are feeding twice as much of everything (except selenium) with forageplus so I do wonder if it's just that it is easier to feed less.

The FP balancer does seem to be quite hefty, and there was lots of it in the feed bowl as all she gets is lite chaff to mix it with. Have ordered the equivita in a small size to see how that goes. Thanks.

 

[ester]

I missed about the balancer. I have a fusspot who I used to mix up minerals for, and now I can get him to eat extra mag ox but only any phosphorous on a good day!

I use equimins advanced complete. I used to use the pelleted form (for a couple of years and would eat from hand), but he recently started leaving the pellets so have shifted to the powdered (they will send samples). I can't remember how it stacks up against FP and the others as I have only compared it to the req for my grazing - which is. v. high in calcium hence adding more mag and trying to add more phos!
It smells strong but seems to go down ok!

Re the feet I don't mind the rest of them and I wouldn't accelerate bringing heels down, I'd just walk the horse out on tarmac more as you risk making them sore if you do it before they are ready.

 

[criso]

I missed about the balancer. I have a fusspot who I used to mix up minerals for, and now I can get him to eat extra mag ox but only any phosphorous on a good day!

I use equimins advanced complete. I used to use the pelleted form (for a couple of years and would eat from hand), but he recently started leaving the pellets so have shifted to the powdered (they will send samples). I can't remember how it stacks up against FP and the others as I have only compared it to the req for my grazing - which is. v. high in calcium hence adding more mag and trying to add more phos!
It smells strong but seems to go down ok!

If you're on fb one of the barefoot groups has a supplement comparison files. The Equimins has added calcium which I wouldn't be enthusiastic about but it doesn't specify if it's the advanced or not. https://www.facebook.com/groups/BarefootApproach2WholeHorseHealth/files/

Walking on a smooth even surface is good, little and often. Even if there is lameness and possible tendon and ligament damage, this is recommended by vets once you're past the acute stage so you're not going against them.

 

[ester]

Ah, that's good I have put a join request in. It does have 4.5% calcium in which isn't ideal but I do think it is a good no iron alternative for those with fussier eaters. Given that the minerals side of things isn't anywhere near an exact science I tend to look at the feet in front of me these days (rock bloomin hard!) and know a good number that have got on with it well .

 

[Red-1]

What a lovely change. She really does look on tip toe on the first one, much improved in the second.

I would do a soak in Clean Trax if you ever have a Thrush problem, then use the other products was an when to prevent it coming back.

 

[Bernster]

Thanks. It's odd (in a good way) what you notice from pics and having a long hard look at their hooves. I'm going to vid her foot fall soon to see what I can pick up in slo mo. Thx for the tip re clean trax will take a look now. Trimmer coming in August hopefully so will see what she says.

What a lovely change. She really does look on tip toe on the first one, much improved in the second.

I would do a soak in Clean Trax if you ever have a Thrush problem, then use the other products was an when to prevent it coming back.

 

[Goldenstar]

I got mine eating the forage plus balancers by introducing it very gradually .

 

[Bernster]

I got mine eating the forage plus balancers by introducing it very gradually .

I've never had an issue with feed with her so I just assumed she'd be fine �� Typical eh. Have run out of it now (only had a small size and eas feeding both of mine with it). I will try the equivita now and introduce it slowly to try and avoid the previous problem!

 

[criso]

I was spoilt by an equine waste disposal system that will eat anything so I was so complacent, I then got the fussy one and started on a whole learning curve with him.

 

[Palindrome]

I think there is improvement as well. Time is the best thing to give her.
The long bars are here to support the back of the foot/lateral cartilages that are weak. Bringing the heel shorter too soon would probably make her sore. Except for the frog trimming, I think the the trim looks good so wouldn't change farrier if you are otherwise happy with the horse's progress.