Barefoot Transition - issues with soundness in arena

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Hello!

This turned into a long story, I never intended it to.

I'm just after some thoughts and advice really from other people who have been through the transition (successfully or not). I've read many threads on here but none quite like my issue.

I took the back shoes off last year and decided earlier this year that as her back feet looked so healthy and the fronts looked pretty rubbish, that I would take the plunge. she has no prior feet issues / lameness issues / health problems etc. to deal with, so I naively thought this might be easy!

The shoes were taken off mid July, she was fine in the arena for the first couple of weeks and I continued working her. she was footy on stones as expected, so Nothing of real concern.

She then became off in the arena too at the start of August. We put this down to bruising as ground was super hard (she doesn't take it easy in the field) and also had quite a long toe which was perhaps putting pressure on something etc. Also, I had just ripped her shoes off after 7 years, so I wasn't expecting miracles! She was subsequently trimmed by a barefoot trimmer, mid August, 4 weeks after her shoes came off/ around 1-2 weeks after becoming off.

I ordered hoof boots, and she is 100% sound in those (on hard gravel surface, concrete and in the soft arena), but slightly off without the hoof boots, on hard ground and in the arena.

There is no heat or swelling or pulses that we can find. As we are transitioning and lameness is slight and she is fine in field we have not seen vet, as advice is quite likely to be: put shoes on. Also, as she is sound in boots, I assume she would likely be sound in shoes, which suggests its an issue with her transitioning?

We did see some pink in the white line a couple of weeks ago, and a small bit of bruising show up on the sole, but I understand by the time this shows up, it is from something several weeks or months past?

The lameness has got better in the last few weeks, which is positive. But she is still fractionally off.

She is out a few hours in the day, in overnight on soaked hay.
I've not been riding, just the odd time in the hoof boots, in walk and a little trot, to see how she is progressing/ if she is improving.
She gets a handful of happy hoof for breakfast and dinner with a bit of magnesium.
I've been treating with Red Horse for the small bit of thrush she had but on the whole, things look good.

I have photos from every week if that's helpful.

Has anyone else had issues with ponies being off on soft surface when transitioning?
How long do I give it before I admit defeat? Do I persevere until spring (say 6 months she will have a whole new hoof growth and hoof should be stronger)?

I'm frustrated because her feet look much healthier, the new growth looks good, frogs are improved vastly. and yet, She's not 100% in the school.

Well done to anyone who got this far!
 
Last edited:

AnitaStreet

Member
Joined
19 February 2010
Messages
27
Visit site
Hello, I'm currently transitioning two and feel your pain. I don't really have any answers but wanted to recommend a really good FB group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1384098481808753/?fref=nf Barefoot Horse Owners. I get lots of help from reading posts on there. I think it just takes time and from what I can gather the more movement you can do the better. Yes I'd say you need to persevere and give it longer. There are so many benefits to barefoot for long term soundness, it's not the easy option though I will admit. Ignorance is bliss! My old TB looks terrible on the lunge in the school (he was sore all over before but now looks crippled) but he feels great hacking on smooth tarmac or grass. Very forward and happy to march on. So I'm just doing that three times a week and the change in his hoof growth is remarkable. Like you, I'm hoping that once he has a whole new hoof, everything will feel better and if gets great concavity and a thicker sole then the little stones won't hurt so much. Good luck!
 

serenityjane

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 May 2010
Messages
300
Location
Welshpool
Visit site
I have had several barefoot horses, my riding horse is however currently shod. I have transitioned some from shod to bare and others from bare to shod depending on their own individual needs and my personal demands on them, and must say that never were they sore in the school or field, that to me is a whole new level of pain! Transitioning from shod to barefoot may be uncomfortable on stones for a couple of weeks, if it goes beyond that in terms of pain or timescale then you really have to consider whether there are other issues or indeed barefoot is the correct ideal for the welfare of the horse. You can change the diet, grow a new hoof etc but this will take 9 months to a year, that is a long time to be in pain and that pain may also lead to other issues higher up the body. Whilst barefoot is a terrific ideal, contrary to current popular opinion it only really works (unless of course they are booted for every ride, or only ridden on soft surfaces once a week) for a very small number of true working horses.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
57,035
Visit site
contrary to current popular opinion it only really works (unless of course they are booted for every ride, or only ridden on soft surfaces once a week) for a very small number of true working horses.


This is not true. I have just returned from a three hour hunt ride which went on stone farm tracks, roads, and fields. Of the field of one hundred, I saw at least eight with no shoes on at all, mine being one, and there were quite a few more with no back shoes on.

I have done this kind of work with at least ten horses of my own, and my personal experience is that most horses which are fed and worked in the way that they need can do fine without shoes on.

I do agree that the OP's horse should not be sore in a school, and that there is more going on than might be obvious. If the horse is improving as the grass dies off, I would be suspecting that it is one of the many that don't do well on too much grass.

Rose, have you got her on a proper mineral supplement or are you just giving her magnesium? If the latter, try her on one of the Forageplus, Pro Hoof, or the Equivita no iron high copper supplements.
 
Last edited:

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Thing is she always looked fine in the field running round. Just fractionally off on a surface and on stones.

Ive been off for a week unable to see her. So Trot up this morning in the school and looked sound. Quite happy on the hardcore surface on the route up to the school as well which was an area for her to be footy before. So she seems to have made progress in the last week.

So I'm far less panicked now. I'm never adverse to re shoeing if it doesn't seem to be working for her. Happy pony is priority 1.

I have been keping her off the grass as much as possible and soaking her hay so perhaps it was a sugar issue which just took its time to ease off (recent weather not helping things!)?

Not sure how long diet changes can take to kick in?
 

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Rose, have you got her on a proper mineral supplement or are you just giving her magnesium? If the latter, try her on one of the Forageplus, Pro Hoof, or the Equivita no iron high copper supplements.

I have not, but trimmer due in a couple of weeks so will discuss then which one she thinks would be best. There's too much on the market. Not all as good as it claims to be!

Thanks for the recommendations!
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
57,035
Visit site
I have not, but trimmer due in a couple of weeks so will discuss then which one she thinks would be best. There's too much on the market. Not all as good as it claims to be!

Thanks for the recommendations!

I think there are only the three that have no iron in them. Most UK grazing is already toe high in iron, it prevents the uptake of copper and that prevents the proper use of insulin to deal with carbs in the food. It might be the problem, it is with many horses.
 

Barnacle

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 January 2015
Messages
773
Location
London
Visit site
I currently ride 8 different horses that have all been barefoot their entire lives (none owned by me). All of them go lame from time to time on hard ground and on a surface. Otherwise totally healthy, good feet etc etc. It may be that your horse is never consistently sound barefoot. To answer your question about how long you should persevere - for as long as you think its fair for the horse to be in pain. If she doesn't take it easy in the field and you are attributing some of the soreness to that, you should think about whether booting her for work is really adequate if she's damaging herself already while in the paddock. Of course if it's a sugar issue, that's another story... Shoeing won't fix that.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
57,035
Visit site
Barnacle do you mean that your horses go lame from time to time the way most horses go lame from time to time, or because they are barefoot and the ground is hard, or the grass too rich?

I'm interested because the only time mine have gone lame which I would attribute to barefoot is when I got a batch of brewer's yeast that they wouldn't eat. Two out of three were sore on stones within days, and sound again within days of getting stuff they would eat again.
 

EQUIDAE

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2015
Messages
1,999
Visit site
One thing to consider - how is her hoof supposed to harden if she is only turned out for a few hours a day and the rest of the time stood in a nice comfy stable... She needs as much turnout as possible to allow the hoof to harden naturally whilst the ground is hard - as soon as winter comes round and she on mud {or stabled even more}, you have no hope of toughening her up.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
57,035
Visit site
One thing to consider - how is her hoof supposed to harden if she is only turned out for a few hours a day and the rest of the time stood in a nice comfy stable... She needs as much turnout as possible to allow the hoof to harden naturally whilst the ground is hard - as soon as winter comes round and she on mud {or stabled even more}, you have no hope of toughening her up.


I missed that bit! Completely agree, not enough movement.
 

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Yes I agree she needs movement, trouble is, its hard to balance enough turnout with not letting her have all day in a giant field on the grass, when there isn't an alternative turnout available.

how do you balance this out if she is not coping with the grass?

I think cutting down the grass/sugar has helped enough at least I can crack on riding more which will help the movement side of things.

When your horse is shod I think it hides a lot of these things which then become much more of an issue when barefoot. I guess I'm more aware of her feet now then I was.

The offness in the school has been very subtle, and sometimes she felt fine, sometimes just not like my pony should feel.

Thanks for all the comments, all helpful. :)
 

FfionWinnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 July 2012
Messages
17,021
Location
Scotland
Visit site
What surface is the school?

The thing is that shoes don't make a barefoot horse sound they cover up a problem. I would personally far rather work out the problem.

All of mine are BF, transitioning my new one now, she is fine on tarmac and grass, ok on small smooth stones and not ok on sharp stones. Therefore out hacking I walk her on the verge if there are sharp stones, the rest of the time we walk on the track. Have been walking out for an hour per day for 2.5 weeks and I feel she is improving on sharp stones.

Was struggling to keep boots on her so I gave up on boots and any fast work and instead just walking out.

Can you walk her on smooth tarmac to get her moving more?
 

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
She's been muzzled before, but didn't get on great with it. she gets out of anything usually, headcollars, muzzles etc, i've lost count the number I've lost never to see again. Everything seems to rub her as well, she's one of those, I have to be quite vigilant about anything which will be left on her.

The surface is sand and fluffy stuff. fluffy stuff comes to the surface a lot so its quite soft. Again, was fine in the hoof boots, and I mean really striding along, which is why its been so hard to figure out what's going on.

Most of the yard is tarmac or hardcore, so she gets quite a range of walking in terms of surface.
 

criso

Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Joined
18 September 2008
Messages
11,791
Location
London but horse is in Herts
Visit site
Maybe the thrush is the issue, if the sand is gritty it could be irritating it?

I had one that struggled in the school but it was a non foot thing and the deep surface was bringing a problem to the fore. But in that case boots made no difference.
 

kirstie

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 December 2008
Messages
1,040
Visit site
Her diet is probably a huge factor. As someone said above, forage plus, pro hoof or eqivita are the best ones balancers you can get. Healthy hoof is not great either. Alpha beet would be better with minerals and plenty of forage.

You also need to get her moving, if she is not sound ridden then just in hand in the arena and then onto the road once she is more comfortable. Her feet won't improve without movement. Is she landing heel first?

Have a look at the Rockley blog, particularly the 'key posts'. There is plenty of info in there about transitioning and how to get the balance right.

Good luck.
 

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
You also need to get her moving, if she is not sound ridden then just in hand in the arena and then onto the road once she is more comfortable. Her feet won't improve without movement. Is she landing heel first?

She is 100% in the hoof boots on all surfaces. she was landing fine, she was just slightly short on one side at the front. very subtle, if you didn't know my horse and how she moves you might not even spot it.
Trotting up this morning and she was fine on the concrete, very happy to go forward. and leading down to the field we have hardcore / mud with small stones and was actually fine on that, leading the way, not footy at all.
I think you're all right in terms of diet and maybe thrush as well, she always lets me know right off if something hurts, and by that I mean, she is very sensitive. Which I see as a good thing as I know right away if anything is even a little bit sore.

I'm hoping she will now stay sound, as I increase the workload again slowly, it just one of those issues. I couldn't find on any other forum anywhere, anyone who had had this problem. Which is very frustrating as then you end up having no idea what you should actually be doing with it?!

thanks to all who have replied, really useful stuff :)
 

NZJenny

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2013
Messages
1,793
Visit site
Movement, movement and more movement.

Soft arena surfaces press upwards on the sole, so if the horse isn't 100%, then there can be some soreness. I have found the same and also I beach work a lot, and have experienced the same on sand.

Movement is the key to successful barefooting, whether it be in a paddock, riding, hand walking, ponying from another horse. However it needs to happen.
 

rose1081

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 November 2009
Messages
105
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Soft arena surfaces press upwards on the sole, so if the horse isn't 100%, then there can be some soreness. I have found the same and also I beach work a lot, and have experienced the same on sand.

This is what I was wondering - is that due to Sole or frog or just how the surface put pressure on?

The red horse products have actually been amazing, way better than I expected, despite the positive reviews I've read. I'm totally converted.

I'm roping some friends in to help with some light exercise for her while I can't ride for the next week, so hopefully we are back on track.

Why do horses make us worry so much? :)
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
57,035
Visit site
Wouldn't more turnout be an easier solution?

While the horse does need more movement, if it's grass sensitive turnout can be difficult, and in many of these horses, turnout alone is not enough to build strong feet and they need appropriate work.

Glad you've found some help , rose.
 
Top