Barefoot Treeless Tack Question

[AppyLover1996]

Hi Guys,

With the weather taking a turn, I've already started forward planning for the future (rather eager of me I know aha!) and have been doing some research.

I ideally want my 16 month old youngster to be barefoot, bitless and ridden in a treeless saddle (I am very much for a less is more approach and he's such a sweet lad I really feel that this approach will work best for him. Of course if anything needs changing my instructor, vet, dentist and equine podiatrist will all be spoken to!) when he is old enough to start his ridden career and have come across the Barefoot range of saddlery. I like how the pommel is adjustable in their saddle range, how it really moulds to both the horse and rider who use them, and I've read quite a few reviews ranging from them being used in rehab cases, to starting a young horse's ridden career which fills me with confidence. I've also come across some not so glowing reviews but the company have dealt with them in a professional way, which gives me confidence that I'll be investing my hard earned money and time in a good place.

With the above in mind, I have the following questions :

1) I am looking to eventually purchase the Barefoot Cheyenne Leather treeless saddle version - what stirrup leathers are best to use for it please? The Drytex saddle has their own specific leathers and I was wondering if the Cheyenne follows along the same lines?
2) I am also looking at purchasing the Barefoot Comfort Physio bridle - does this come with reins or are they needing to be brought separately as I can't find anything online to say if I need to purchase reins as well?
3) Do you have to use the Barefoot specific saddle cloths or can you use a normal GP/Dressage saddlecloth with a grippy half pad please? I don't mind forking out for the Barefoot specific pads if that is all that can be used with the Barefoot saddle range, however we all know how expensive our lifestyle is, so where possible if there is a safe (and I cannot emphasise it enough!) alternative, please do let me know!
4) When it comes to cleaning the Barefoot Cheyenne Leather treeless saddle is there a specific product to use/that the company sell which will be safe to use?

Nice warm cup of your favourite beverage and some cookies for getting this far

 

[FitzyFitz]

I cant answer any specific cleaning questions, or about the bridle but as far as the saddlepad and stirrups go:

You must use either the barefoot pad or another specialist treeless pad underneath the saddle. With these types of saddles half the structure is in the pad, if you put the saddle on with a normal pad you would have no spinal clearance at all and limited weight distribution. The pads have full length foam or felt shims in and a spinal channel to keep some of the weight off the spine. Some pads marketed as treeless just have extra padding in the saddle panel area but the ones with velcro pockets and removable shims are far better as you can add shims at front/back/middle if needed as well. They are expensive, but are not optional if you want to go treeless.
Obviously the weight distribution and spinal clearance even in a well fitting, well constructed treeless saddle is not as good as in a properly fitted treed saddle. This is where in my opinion the 'less is better' approach falls through a bit. HOWEVER a properly fitted treeless saddle is miles better than a poorly fitted treed saddle and I do quite rate treeless (with the correct padding and shims) for youngsters that are changing rapidly as you can adjust it much more easiily. Just be careful you dont go sliding around if they've got no withers or do an abrupt stop and handbrake turn. The saddle SHOULD be fine in these circumstances... but it's one of those things, slightly more likely with something made of foam, especially on a baby.

For stirrups, you can use any leathers you like but I usually prefer the dressage webber type without buckles at the top as the lump under the thigh is usually more noticeable in a treeless saddle due to the structure. I know a few people who use normal leathers but put them on with the buckle at the bottom by the stirrup iron and have fleecey covers on them, comfy to ride but tricky to adjust!
For irons, PLEASE use safety irons or caged stirrups. The Barefoot saddle I have and the one on the website both have closed stirrup bars, athough i believe newer ones now have e shaped stirrup bars.

That bridle looks lovely, from the website text I would say no reins, and it also sort of sounds like the noseband isn't included either? I would ring up just to be sure if I were you.

 

[webble]

I used to have that bridle and it doesnt come with reins. Its not that adjustable and I found the browband quite snug so check measurements before buying

 

[Caol Ila]

I have a few thoughts on this. Both my horses are barefoot, one is bitless, and I ride one in a TreeFree saddle and the other in a leather tree saddle.

Barefoot: you may need boots, especially if your hacking is rocky. Deal with it. But there's an increasing body of evidence suggesting that barefoot has a lot of biomechanical advantages over metal shoes, so if your horse is comfortable and/or you can fit boots, definitely go for it.

Bitless: Here's my controversial opinion. There aren't many bitless bridles that can teach a horse vertical and lateral flexion as well as a snaffle, except for...wait for it... the bosal. This is how my young PRE ended up in one. I went down this rabbit hole for reasons I can't be bothered getting into here, and worked out that the only way I could develop the horse in the way I wanted to without a bit was to produce her in the western hackamore. This is both expensive and challenging, because good bosals cost an arm and a leg (mine came from Canada) and require a different way of riding in many respects. Definitely more knowledge and skill than I have. I'm mostly sh1t at it but my horse is forgiving and we muddle along. The most puntery vaquero training in the world. If you want an easy life, start the horse in a snaffle. Once it understands vertical and lateral flexion, you can move on to any bitless bridle you like.

My Highland goes in a snaffle, by the way. And sometimes a Myler combination when he forgets how to steer. I tried him in a few bitless bridles and he worked out he could completely take the steering off me, which is not ideal.

Treeless: I use them because it's a pain in the arse to get saddle fitters out twice per year to adust treed saddles. They're awesome when they work. They are terrible when they don't because you're on your own, and not many pros about can help you. The Barefoot style saddles do not suit every horse. My Highland goes in TreeFree, which is a similar design to Barefoot. That's nice for me. I couldn't make the TreeFree work for my PRE for love nor money, and ultimately I had to get a professional saddle fitter out, who sorted her out with a leather tree thing.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Yep, agree with all the above. The saddle pad provides the profile for the saddle to sit on the horse's back, and the saddle is the cover that you sit on. Do not skimp on the pad! If your horse develops withers, you may have to think again. Also, treeless saddles do not carry heavy riders because of the lack of framework. No easy way to say this, but if you are creeping up towards a size 14, treeless may not be the best option.

 

[Hackback]

Just don't think being bitless barefoot and treeless is easy! I tried barefoot with my older horse back in the day but it didn't work out. He was sore on stoney ground and boots were a nightmare. First getting some to fit, then getting them on and off - they have to be very tight and the amount of effort and twisting I had to put in to get them on and off made me worried I would damage the horse. And yet still somehow one used to fly off regularly during a canter. Then there was the worry about soil and grit getting into them and causing rubs. I still have PTSD about the whole experience. But I think there are more options available these days so it might be easier. I ended up with shoes.

Then the treeless - I loved treeless but getting the padding right is a skilled job. I had an excellent fitter come out every 6-12 months to check and adjust as necessary. I can't tell you how much difference she could make to how comfortable I (and presumably the horse) felt after just a minor tweak. The other thing about the padding is getting it to sit just right under the saddle. Maybe it's just me but so often I'd think I'd got the gullet if the pad perfectly lined up only to get on and find it wasn't straight. Possibly worse with my set up because I have an ordinary numnah, then the pad and the saddle on top, and my saddle (an ansur) also has a gullet. Eventually as he got older my horse's withers got too pronounced to be able to pad up sufficient for clearance and he had to have a treed. The good news is I am now using the Ansur on my youngster.

Oh, and treeless are reputedly not as stable as treed which can be especially problematic on a youngster as you obviously don't want the saddle to slip and scare them. My baby was actually started in a treed, but mainly because I want him to have 'life experience' for future proofing.

The baby is currently barefoot and I am hoping to keep him that way, but I will reassess as we go.

He was also started in a rope halter but has now progressed to a snaffle for the reasons other posters have mentioned. I have a friend who rides in (I think) a hackamore which puts pressure on the horse's nose. When she's trying to hold her back during a fast canter it sounds as though the horse can't breath, so I'm definitely of the opinion that a bit is a kinder option than that particular bitless bridle.

I hope you have lots of fun with your youngster and keep us updated with your progress

 

[Caol Ila]

He was also started in a rope halter but has now progressed to a snaffle for the reasons other posters have mentioned. I have a friend who rides in (I think) a hackamore which puts pressure on the horse's nose. When she's trying to hold her back during a fast canter it sounds as though the horse can't breath, so I'm definitely of the opinion that a bit is a kinder option than that particular bitless bridle.

If the mechanical hack is interfering with the horse's breathing, it's adjusted too low and compressing the cartilage in their nasal passages. It should be around the bony part of their face.

That said, mechanical hacks are rubbish for developing youngsters because they don't offer the horse a proper release when it flexes laterally. In this country, I mainly see them being used by show jumpers who aren't bothered with that, don't want to or can't ride in a bit, but still want strong brakes. They're alright for that.

 

[planete]

I use Flex and Cavallo boots and they are very straightforward to use. No strength necessary, no rubs. We have moved on from the early boots which relied on excessive pressure to be fitted and to stay on.there is also a lot of help available to ensure we get the right boots for each horse's hoof shape.

 

[Caol Ila]

I don’t ride and lead because the roads to the park are narrow and busy, and I don’t always know what I will encounter that will turn my Highland into an idiot. The world is full of Daleks and Cybermen and Weeping Angels, apparently (definitely Weeping Road Signs). He would have to be the led one but you still don’t want to be in that situation on that road.

I ponied a long time ago when I went through a phase of having two horses in Colorado, but we had direct access to 90 acres of trails that were on the yard’s own land. Even if things went wrong, they’d go less wrong.

 

[AppyLover1996]

I cant answer any specific cleaning questions, or about the bridle but as far as the saddlepad and stirrups go:

You must use either the barefoot pad or another specialist treeless pad underneath the saddle. With these types of saddles half the structure is in the pad, if you put the saddle on with a normal pad you would have no spinal clearance at all and limited weight distribution. The pads have full length foam or felt shims in and a spinal channel to keep some of the weight off the spine. Some pads marketed as treeless just have extra padding in the saddle panel area but the ones with velcro pockets and removable shims are far better as you can add shims at front/back/middle if needed as well. They are expensive, but are not optional if you want to go treeless.
Obviously the weight distribution and spinal clearance even in a well fitting, well constructed treeless saddle is not as good as in a properly fitted treed saddle. This is where in my opinion the 'less is better' approach falls through a bit. HOWEVER a properly fitted treeless saddle is miles better than a poorly fitted treed saddle and I do quite rate treeless (with the correct padding and shims) for youngsters that are changing rapidly as you can adjust it much more easiily. Just be careful you dont go sliding around if they've got no withers or do an abrupt stop and handbrake turn. The saddle SHOULD be fine in these circumstances... but it's one of those things, slightly more likely with something made of foam, especially on a baby.

For stirrups, you can use any leathers you like but I usually prefer the dressage webber type without buckles at the top as the lump under the thigh is usually more noticeable in a treeless saddle due to the structure. I know a few people who use normal leathers but put them on with the buckle at the bottom by the stirrup iron and have fleecey covers on them, comfy to ride but tricky to adjust!
For irons, PLEASE use safety irons or caged stirrups. The Barefoot saddle I have and the one on the website both have closed stirrup bars, athough i believe newer ones now have e shaped stirrup bars.

That bridle looks lovely, from the website text I would say no reins, and it also sort of sounds like the noseband isn't included either? I would ring up just to be sure if I were you.

Thank you for your help and advise - that's interesting to know about the treeless saddle pads - I'll deffo go down the route of buying them then! I'll also give the website a ring too

 

[AppyLover1996]

Just don't think being bitless barefoot and treeless is easy! I tried barefoot with my older horse back in the day but it didn't work out. He was sore on stoney ground and boots were a nightmare. First getting some to fit, then getting them on and off - they have to be very tight and the amount of effort and twisting I had to put in to get them on and off made me worried I would damage the horse. And yet still somehow one used to fly off regularly during a canter. Then there was the worry about soil and grit getting into them and causing rubs. I still have PTSD about the whole experience. But I think there are more options available these days so it might be easier. I ended up with shoes.

Then the treeless - I loved treeless but getting the padding right is a skilled job. I had an excellent fitter come out every 6-12 months to check and adjust as necessary. I can't tell you how much difference she could make to how comfortable I (and presumably the horse) felt after just a minor tweak. The other thing about the padding is getting it to sit just right under the saddle. Maybe it's just me but so often I'd think I'd got the gullet if the pad perfectly lined up only to get on and find it wasn't straight. Possibly worse with my set up because I have an ordinary numnah, then the pad and the saddle on top, and my saddle (an ansur) also has a gullet. Eventually as he got older my horse's withers got too pronounced to be able to pad up sufficient for clearance and he had to have a treed. The good news is I am now using the Ansur on my youngster.

Oh, and treeless are reputedly not as stable as treed which can be especially problematic on a youngster as you obviously don't want the saddle to slip and scare them. My baby was actually started in a treed, but mainly because I want him to have 'life experience' for future proofing.

The baby is currently barefoot and I am hoping to keep him that way, but I will reassess as we go.

He was also started in a rope halter but has now progressed to a snaffle for the reasons other posters have mentioned. I have a friend who rides in (I think) a hackamore which puts pressure on the horse's nose. When she's trying to hold her back during a fast canter it sounds as though the horse can't breath, so I'm definitely of the opinion that a bit is a kinder option than that particular bitless bridle.

I hope you have lots of fun with your youngster and keep us updated with your progress

Oh I'm well aware of how difficult it can be - my retired lad was transitioned to bitless, barefoot and treeless and I spent a good 3 years out the saddle rehabbing him and sorting out various issues, so I'm well aware of the slog but also how rewarding it can be I'll certainly keep everyone updated - if I can figure out the technology lark, I might even start a thread on him aha!

 

[AppyLover1996]

I use Flex and Cavallo boots and they are very straightforward to use. No strength necessary, no rubs. We have moved on from the early boots which relied on excessive pressure to be fitted and to stay on.there is also a lot of help available to ensure we get the right boots for each horse's hoof shape.

My Equine Podiatrist has been seeing my youngster since he was a wee baby and we are both of the mindset of trying to keep him barefoot without the use of boots, but of course will measure and sort boots out instantly if he needs them My retired lad lived in his Scoots and Cavallos and I quite like not having to search for shoes and lost nails in the depths of the Antarctic winter!

 

[catembi]

All four of mine are b/f, including my ex racer & my 17hh 4 yo ISH x WB. The ex racer needs boots if it's stony; the 4 yo doesn't. She is fully rock crunching & has beautiful feet.

 

[Landcruiser]

I used to have a Barefoot Cheyenne but found it tipped me forwards, the stirrup bars were set wrong. For this reason I'd recommend trying before you buy if you can. I ended up selling it but kept the Barefoot Grandeur pad which I've used with other treeless saddles over the years, including a Total Contact Saddle recently.

 

[spookypony]

Sounds like you know what you want re. going barefoot and have advice on hand, and I don't know enough about bitless options, but re. the saddle, I would say not to get too fixated on a brand (or even on treeless) at this stage. My Endurance pony went through quite a number of treed saddles, and we finally settled on a treeless Ghost that just worked for his weird back. My mare has the problem that she has a very short back, whereas I have very long legs. We tried various options, and eventually settled on a leather-tree dressage saddle (Hidalgo) that suits us both. The Ghost didn't work well on her. The flexible tree seems to be a good solution for quite a few horses.

 

[sbloom]

There are all sorts of hybrid and more rigid but technically treeless brands like Ghost and Hidalgo to consider, they give a better twist for most riders and rider fit affects the horse so it's really important.