Barefoot, trimmer or farrier??

[kittykatcat]

The reason i went with a trimmer is because I wanted to try barefoot after years of losing shoes, bashed up legs (horse is pidgeon toed) and my farrier looked at me like I was something that had just dropped out of a dog's rear end, said something extrememly unpleasant and unhelpful and carried on shoeing my horse. He still comes on the yard now, and I still have the same old boring coversation about 'not riding your horse now as it hasnt got shoes on'...after 6 years, you would have thought he had the message!! ANYWAY...if i had a farrier that had been open to suggestion then i may not have changed. But i didnt, and that's why i changed. Since reading more about the subject I would go with a trimmer only.

 

[soloequestrian]

I think it often has a lot more to do with the individual person than their title. A trimmer comes to see mine, but before she came the first time I went out with her for a day and watched what she was doing. The more I've got into all the new barefoot information that's available, the less I've needed anyone to look at their feet - I've got better at looking after them myself and they've also become more 'self-trimming' anyway.
The best thing you can do is gather all the information you possibly can, from all the sources you can find, and then make up your own mind.

 

[kittykatcat]

Completley agree with you Solo!!

 

[Hippona]

Farrier.

Someone who has no recognised qualifications doesn't get to treat my horse in any capacity.

Ditto.

 

[branmash]

Hi all Ive been following threads about this topic for a while and thought i would give my personal opinion, having come back to horse ownership after 10 years wondered what this barefoot trimming was all about, basically I would always use a farrier (most of the time my ponies have always been unshod since the 1980s) as I believe the training etc to be to become qualified is first rate. If I wanted further advice I would contact my vet or feed nutritionalists (mostly free advice and not added to the barefoot trimmers bill).
sorry to upset some people but I would always use qualified people.

 

[amandap]

It's an individual choice in the end, no point in saying one is 'better' than the other. Barefoot does require an holistic approach from the owner and changes may need to be made, some compromises for the horse may not be enough for him to be comfortable without shoes.
I often wonder why some of the people who have led the modern barefoot thinking and practice are/were actually Farriers! We have Jaime Jackson, Pete Ramey and K. C. La Pierre for starters. On this list of UK barefoot Trimmers registered with one organization are some Farriers. Check out their quallifications by clicking on the UK practitioner list.. http://www.uknhcp.org/page50.htmllso as has been said it's like all professionals, some are better suited to you and your horse than others.

Whatever, in the end the owner is ultimately responsible for their horses care so we all choose what we believe is best. I try not to make decisions anymore based only on what is 'the norm' but on what seems to be the best for my horse, be that 'normal' or whacky to some!

 

[toffeesmarty]

I have just returned from having all 6 of mine trimmed and left barefoot by my farrier. One had had his shoes taken off for the winter and will have then put back on in February. The rest will stay naked.
2 years ago he argued strongly to leave my mare unshod to improve her feet. The difference in the quality of her hooves is remarkable.

I also saw the results of a barefoot course on a lovely young horse whose feet had been trimmed so badly her back and pelvis were out of alignment.

 

[DellaMoon]

What are the legalities regarding trimming and shoeing? Is it just that only farriers can prepare a foot for a shoe and put on the shoe? This has confused me as I've seen people trimming their own horses and often wondered whether it was legal!

 

[Dolcé]

Having used both I would now only ever use a farrier for trimming. I think it is very important to remember that, whilst farriers do train for 4 years, CPD continues for their whole career, it doesn't just stop after 4 years, if they don't reach their required annual CPD points they will be kicked off the register!!

I believe Strasser was just started and followed blindly for years before 'somebody' realised that perhaps it wasn't quite right! I do believe their are good trimmers out there but the sooner there is legislation in place that controls who can 'just set up' then the better. There are also some farriers who refuse to see the difference in trimming for a shoe and trimming the foot for work(hope that makes sense). I can trim growth from my own ponies but am too slow (for them to stand still) and unable to balance the feet as well as the farrier can, I would fall back on this if ever I couldn't find a good farrier but I would never allow a trimmer near mine again. I have to say, I have been there, believed the hype, done ALL the research and gone back to a farrier!

 

[amandap]

Having used both I would now only ever use a farrier for trimming. I think it is very important to remember that, whilst farriers do train for 4 years, CPD continues for their whole career, it doesn't just stop after 4 years, if they don't reach their required annual CPD points they will be kicked off the register!!

Barefoot Organizations in the UK have been working with LANTRA so a BF 'standard' is on the way sometime. UKNHCP, AANHCP and both EP orgs. registered in UK do peer reviwed continued study and have organizations you can complain to.

I believe Strasser was just started and followed blindly for years before 'somebody' realised that perhaps it wasn't quite right!

This is not true! Also three of the major BF training bodies have as their oath 'DO NO HARM' and practice non invasive trimming! Yes some Strasser trimmers invade the hoof as well as some other trimmers.
This is Jaime Jackson's story of the history! http://www.aanhcp.net/THH39Hi.pdf
The AANHCP is currently trying to highlight unnatural and invasive trimming on their facebook page.

 

[soloequestrian]

What are the legalities regarding trimming and shoeing? Is it just that only farriers can prepare a foot for a shoe and put on the shoe? This has confused me as I've seen people trimming their own horses and often wondered whether it was legal!

The only thing that is illegal for someone who isn't a farrier is to prepare a foot to be ready to receive a shoe, and put the shoe on. And in the Highlands, it's also legal to do that yourself. Trimming a foot with no intention to put a shoe on it is legal for anyone, and harm caused by doing so is covered by the Animal Health and Welfare Act, which covers any form of harm done to a companion animal.

 

[ferrador]

it is NOT legal to shoe your own in the highlands , that was stopped a while back
chris

 

[AndySpooner]

A number of people here seem to set great store by professional qualifications of farriers and bare foot trimmers.

There are plenty of trimmers about that have studied and obtained qualifications which should satisfy most people. Unless of course, you don't want them to.

However, it crossed my mind what training the majority of horse owners have to be taking on a horse and making decisions about the keeping and welfare of such an animal.

The only stipulation appears to be money, if you can afford to buy and keep one, thats about it.

Lots of people seem to keep their horse the way their friends or family have done in the past. Advice sought from yard owners, riding instructors, dealers, feed companies, a farmer selling hay, vets the farrier, all very anecdotal and informal, with a lot of vested interest.

'Common sense' is very often quoted on these threads as the justification for all sorts of nonsense talked about horses.

Anthropomorphism also seems rife amongst the horse owning public, which is also a worry.

Many people when told something from someone they perceive to be knowledgable about a subject, will then defend that view in the face of a wealth of evidence to the contrary.

What does shine through though, from many of the threads is the wealth of knowledge and experience many have, who have researched and studied, whether formally or not, all sorts of topics relating to equine health, welfare, training and many other aspects of horse keeping.

It's a good thing that these 'opinions' and views can be aired and argued over, no matter how heated the debate.

 

[amandap]

Some great points made there Andyspooner. We should all learn about the horse and what horses need as opposed to what we human's think they need.
That oft used saying 'listen to your horse' is so true and imo is our best guide.

 

[cptrayes]

How come all barefoot trimmers wear expensive shoes?
My farrier diagnosed a problem that my vet and an expensive physio missed, he was right too. Never underestimate a farrier and never expect one to show up on time

They don't. One of the founders of UKNHCP wears footgloves, which is as near as you can get to barefoot and not end up with dirt ground into your feet, which is very unattractive though not laming once you have transitioned. The other half of the other founder of the UKNHCP runs in footgloves and if you do some research you will find a growing movement that it is much better for human posture to run without shoes than with.

The fact is that anyone who wants to can train themselves not to need shoes. The other fact is that human foot physiology bears no relationship whatsoever to the horse (whose hock is our heel, knee is our wrist and fetlock is our ball of the foot), and your question is clearly intended to be humourous.


To answer the OP use any trimmer, farrier or otherwise, qualified or otherwise, who can show you a client base of sound horses performing at high level (hunting, jumping, eventing as opposed to pottering around an arena for 20 minutes). Those people know what they are doing no matter where they got that knowledge from.

 

[ferrador]

if the horse performs to its max potential and has no problems and you are happy with the service ,who gives a toss ?
chris

 

[Dolcé]

Barefoot Organizations in the UK have been working with LANTRA so a BF 'standard' is on the way sometime. UKNHCP, AANHCP and both EP orgs. registered in UK do peer reviwed continued study and have organizations you can complain to ...............This cannot come soon enough but also needs the legislation to stop others setting up at whim without recognised industry qualifications.

This is not true! Also three of the major BF training bodies have as their oath 'DO NO HARM' and practice non invasive trimming! Yes some Strasser trimmers invade the hoof as well as some other trimmers.
.............Sorry, I wasn't trying to liken the big BF organisations to the practices of Strasser, I was just trying to make a point that Strasser started up and everybody talked about how wonderful it was until prosecutions started for suffering caused to animals that had been treated with that invasive method.

This is Jaime Jackson's story of the history! http://www.aanhcp.net/THH39Hi.pdf
The AANHCP is currently trying to highlight unnatural and invasive trimming on their facebook page.

I am very aware of the history, I really did do my research both before, and since, it became fashionable.

 

[cptrayes]

I have to say I hate the word "fashionable" in respect to barefoot. I don't do it becuase it's fashionable. I've never done a fashionable thing in my life! I do it because it works. I do it relatively recently because until then it was simply unheard of in this country for large performance horses to work without shoes. If there were any unshod eventers and hunters they simply weren't known about. It's not "fashionable" to be barefoot it's just sensible not to spend money on adding something to your horse's feet that he simply does not need. And there are thousands of happy hacker horses in this country that are still wearing shoes unnecessarily (not all of them, just thousands of them), so if this IS a fashion there is some way to go yet. Fashion also implies that in time it will fall out of fashion again. It won't. The cat is out of the bag. The genie is out of the bottle. So many people now know that the majority of horses don't need shoes, you'll never get that cat back down the neck of that bottle and that genie b*ggered off a long time ago.

 

[amandap]

I am very aware of the history, I really did do my research both before, and since, it became fashionable.

I just took issue with the implication that modern barefoot started and came from Strasser. Jackson and others working at the same time never came to exactly the same conclusions and trim methodology as Dr Strasser, who also is a Vet as I'm sure you know.

 

[Tinypony]

I'd forget the arguments going on in this thread. If you know someone who has a horse or maybe horses, and they are barefoot, sound and working, ask them who does their feet and go for that individual, trimmer or farrier.

 

[soulfull]

I'm unsure at the moment, both mine are barefoot and I've always had a farrier...

BUT, I find that the farrier takes about 5 mins per horse, doesn't look at how they are moving and I question if they could be trimmed to a higher standard. He is a good farrier and has a great reputation but I do get the feeling that they see a trim as not being too important so needs little time or care, just take off the excess and pass me your money

From what I have been told/ found out, trimmers take much longer per horse, will consider diet, workload and lifestlye and I am starting to sway more in that direction.

I know of one barefoot trimmer who has trained in US, been doing it for 10 years and having met her, gave a good impression.

So, still unsure...

That is EXACTLY how I feel!!

There are also some farriers who refuse to see the difference in trimming for a shoe and trimming the foot for work(hope that makes sense).

This is where my problem is I don't know if my horse is trimmed any different now he is barefoot than he was in preparation for shoes!

I'd forget the arguments going on in this thread. If you know someone who has a horse or maybe horses, and they are barefoot, sound and working, ask them who does their feet and go for that individual, trimmer or farrier.

EVERY SINGLE person I know who rides their horse has shoes except me

 

[dafthoss]

I havnt read all the posts but my boy is trimmed by the farrier. When he first had his feet done with me I asked the farrier a few questions and he is happy to leave him without as he said if it aint broke dont fix it, he covers all ground without issues. He said he has good feet and wears them evanly so there is no need to worry. He is a good farrier and the whole yard uses him (by choice) all the horses have good feet so I will continue to use him. When I said about my boy not picking his feet up properly he rolled the toe slightly to help as he said it would be similar to balance shoes but with a trim.